GSX1400 Bolt Sizes

[BanditsHigh]

Hi Bandit, originally I did everything by the book and ordered the correct bolt, (as u stated), I used an impact drill, (pro one), nut no joy... Then I proceeded to hand tighten until couldn't physically tighten any more... At this point I should have used a mallet to pop the bugger off... but I didn't. I tightened more using a breaker bar and the threads on the flywheel just stripped off and bolt just spun.

This is my current predicament and hence why I'm having to resort to a puller. SO, I used a two legged puller which I screwed into the bolt holes inside the flywheel after removing the hex bolts that hold the clutch plate to flywheel. tightened that up pretty tight then used the hammer on the bolt end of puller which did nowt... in fact did more damage, the bolt tip slightly rounded the edges of bolt inlet on crankshaft end...So that's another problem to contend with AFTER, I remove the fecking flywheel.

The other option I have is to re-thread the flywheel and use a bigger bolt.. It's a long story and still ongoing.

What a feckin nightmare ... rethreading sounds like the way to go, but don't know how hard the rotor steel is, so no idea how easy/difficult that'd be.

Ideally I take it you want to get it off in one piece so you can reuse ... if you'd be happy getting a replacement, then another option is to try welding a big nut on and doing it roughly the way it's meant to be done.

Hope yo get it off and let us all know how you get on.

All the best ... Barry

[bladey]

Hi Bandit, originally I did everything by the book and ordered the correct bolt, (as u stated), I used an impact drill, (pro one), nut no joy... Then I proceeded to hand tighten until couldn't physically tighten any more... At this point I should have used a mallet to pop the bugger off... but I didn't. I tightened more using a breaker bar and the threads on the flywheel just stripped off and bolt just spun.

This is my current predicament and hence why I'm having to resort to a puller. SO, I used a two legged puller which I screwed into the bolt holes inside the flywheel after removing the hex bolts that hold the clutch plate to flywheel. tightened that up pretty tight then used the hammer on the bolt end of puller which did nowt... in fact did more damage, the bolt tip slightly rounded the edges of bolt inlet on crankshaft end...So that's another problem to contend with AFTER, I remove the fecking flywheel.

The other option I have is to re-thread the flywheel and use a bigger bolt.. It's a long story and still ongoing.

What a feckin nightmare ... rethreading sounds like the way to go, but don't know how hard the rotor steel is, so no idea how easy/difficult that'd be.

Ideally I take it you want to get it off in one piece so you can reuse ... if you'd be happy getting a replacement, then another option is to try welding a big nut on and doing it roughly the way it's meant to be done.

Hope yo get it off and let us all know how you get on.

All the best ... Barry

Cheers for the reply Barry, That is actually not a bad idea! I got a mate who deals with car wheels tomorrow and he's bringing over a couple of pullers, if no joy... we'll resort to finding a high tensile nut and follow weld route.

Have a look at this video below...my problems are the same...I'm seeming to be the most unluckiest b'stard atm 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLpzk11em6Q&ab_channel=VytautasValaitis

[Eric GSX1400K3]

Just checked the parts fiche on mick hone motor cycles, this shows the rotor as having a boss in centre with 2 flats 180 deg apart, and a threaded inner bore.  Are you 100%sure that the rotors is a press fit onto the end of the crank, and not threaded? The bolt is then there just to stop it unwinding itself.  If that's the case, then you need to hold the crank from the opposite side and using the holes in the rotor, unwind it from the crank. If it's a left hand thread, you'd unwind it clockwise, counter clockwise for a rh thread.  I've never has a 1400 engine apart, so can't say from personal experience,just a thought...

[grog]

Just tapered Eric. Have never understood why a taper? Taper with keyway no better. splined shaft 👍Diff makes do it diff ways, all about cost to manufacture?

[BanditsHigh]

Just tapered Eric. Have never understood why a taper? Taper with keyway no better. splined shaft 👍Diff makes do it diff ways, all about cost to manufacture?

Tapers get tighter and tighter the more they are pressed together, for example Morse taper is one used in machining, for drill chucks etc.

Cheers for the reply Barry, That is actually not a bad idea! I got a mate who deals with car wheels tomorrow and he's bringing over a couple of pullers, if no joy... we'll resort to finding a high tensile nut and follow weld route.

Have a look at this video below...my problems are the same...I'm seeming to be the most unluckiest b'stard atm 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLpzk11em6Q&ab_channel=VytautasValaitis

So been thinking more about this and came up with the idea of using heat (as in the video).

What you want to do is dump a shit ton of heat into the rotor before it transfers to the crank, that'll expand the rotor and it'll hopefully just fall off.

I don't think a blowtorch is up to the job of getting the rotor hot enough before the heat also gets to the crank (but still worth a try), I think you'd need a oxyacetylene type setup (just don't melt the fecker).

One thing I do know is that welding should do it, I've used it before to weld a nut on top of a bolt which wouldn't come out, the thermal shock of rapid heating broke the bond between the bolt and the hole ... the same idea should work for the rotor (the rotor should expand faster than the crank).

One thing to watch out for is the amount of heat put into the rotor, too much and you may bugger the magnets ... whatever method of heat used, it might make sense to put some fireproof material between the centre and the magnets!!

Never asked, but why were you trying to get the rotor off in the first place.

All the best ... Barry

P.S. You could go into 'feck it' mode and just weld the rotor onto the crank 

[bladey]

Just tapered Eric. Have never understood why a taper? Taper with keyway no better. splined shaft 👍Diff makes do it diff ways, all about cost to manufacture?

Tapers get tighter and tighter the more they are pressed together, for example Morse taper is one used in machining, for drill chucks etc.

Cheers for the reply Barry, That is actually not a bad idea! I got a mate who deals with car wheels tomorrow and he's bringing over a couple of pullers, if no joy... we'll resort to finding a high tensile nut and follow weld route.

Have a look at this video below...my problems are the same...I'm seeming to be the most unluckiest b'stard atm 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLpzk11em6Q&ab_channel=VytautasValaitis

So been thinking more about this and came up with the idea of using heat (as in the video).

What you want to do is dump a shit ton of heat into the rotor before it transfers to the crank, that'll expand the rotor and it'll hopefully just fall off.

I don't think a blowtorch is up to the job of getting the rotor hot enough before the heat also gets to the crank (but still worth a try), I think you'd need a oxyacetylene type setup (just don't melt the fecker).

One thing I do know is that welding should do it, I've used it before to weld a nut on top of a bolt which wouldn't come out, the thermal shock of rapid heating broke the bond between the bolt and the hole ... the same idea should work for the rotor (the rotor should expand faster than the crank).

One thing to watch out for is the amount of heat put into the rotor, too much and you may bugger the magnets ... whatever method of heat used, it might make sense to put some fireproof material between the centre and the magnets!!

Never asked, but why were you trying to get the rotor off in the first place.

All the best ... Barry

P.S. You could go into 'feck it' mode and just weld the rotor onto the crank 

Firstly a bit of backstory to the reason of this removal.. which I did post in the old forum nearly 7 years ago! Had an accident back in 2015 on my way down from Scotland in Keighley where I decided to challenge the the lovely winding roads taking her low on the curves running racing lines, (I know ..I know.. dickhead comes to mind, but I couldn't resist  ), anywho, came to a certain speed and coming out of a fast curve, rear wheel came off tar and into dirt, couldn't power it through turn, lost control and bike and me went through one of those lovely dry stone walls, fractured leg and mashed right hand... I got off lightly tbh, as it was pretty high speed and if wall had been cemented, don't think I'd be here telling story!

Bike forks bent like f**k, buckled front wheel and stone wall shattered thru top of Gen housing, pieces of metal got inside and those pieces naturally shattered all magnets and buggered up stator. To this day I'm surprised the bike didn't sustain more damage tbh.

Secondly.. I have tried heating her up, but I think I was being a bit reserved with the heat in case of any nearby rubber seals, but realise it's not the case here between rotor/starter gear housing, just Crank bearing.

Thirdly.. I sourced all the parts back in 2015 for repairing her as I was so gutted and wanted her back on road ASAP, but that never happened, lifes tribulations got in the way and she was put on a back burner  . So I have a 2nd hand Rotor in good nick as well as Stator and new housing.

Fourthly.. and finally, Chuffed this morning to pick up a K5 2nd hand crankshaft with Rotor and starter clutch in place with only 9K on the clock thru fleabay for £110, which I think is a bargain!! ...and free postage WTF!, (Gona do lotto numbers tonight! ), naturally will get her checked out for straightness and thickness at crank pins for wear. I need the crankshaft for in case i've damaged the crank end which means I'd have to get her machined a mill or two and re-balanced...BUT just in case I now have a crankshaft on standby!

I won't go into the story of how I was stranded in the field for 8 hours with nothing but sheep and no phone reception, (sheep were safe lol).

Bladey!

[BanditsHigh]

Jesus and it still didn't put you off biking ... bad enough coming off, but to suffer those injuries and be stuck in a field for 8 hour!!!

I've had my share of offs at speed, last one when rear ended in the fast lane of the M8 at around 80mph ... walked away from it a bit stiff and rode the bike home ... it stayed upright embedded in the front of the car!!!

You're not going to believe this, but I was looking at the same crank this morning, as I think the big ends have gone on my K4 ... talk about coincidence!!

If the rotor is buggered already then nothing to lose by trying the welding route or torch!

Now that you have a new crank, you could just say feck it and just strip the bottom end and fit the new crank ... I'm sure you can do that without stripping the entire engine, but it's a while since I rebuilt mine (about 14 years ago).

BTW, whereabouts you based ... I'm a Glaswegian now living in Hamilton.

All the best ... Barry

[hard road]

you could try cutting the geny as close the the taper as possible, then whack a chisel in it, it just might be enough to free it from the crank. 

[bladey]

Mate if us real bikers gave up biking on our first raw accident... I would've stopped riding in my teens!    I'm sure most of us here have a tale or two to tell!

I'm based in London Barry, born 'n' bred, sorry..not what a northerner wants to hear! ..but the love of bikes and riding is what unites us!

Yes, I agree the best option would be to remove engine block and stick in replacement crank with rotor attached and might be the route left to me if I can't sort original crank end. I'm just going to dremel 0.5mm or less away so the rotor bolt will engage with inner thread. This shouldn't affect the balance as it's a very low centre of gravity point in the shaft.

You're not going to believe this, but I was looking at the same crank this morning, as I think the big ends have gone on my K4 ... talk about coincidence!!

Lol, small world mate, I saw it about 11pm last night, pondered for a bit and then put in an offer and to my surprised was accepted this morning, next thing I knew it said item dispatched lol... and on a Sunday, so I assume I'll get it sometime during the week. IIRC, I paid about £150 for the second hand Rotor alone back in 2015, so this was a bargain tbh imo.

How many miles on your K4? Surprised the big ends gone tbh..Which would mean bearing failure as these engines are pretty rock solid, and i'm sure a guy like you keeps her well oiled up and maintained!

Bladey

[bladey]

you could try cutting the geny as close the the taper as possible, then whack a chisel in it, it just might be enough to free it from the crank. 

Believe me Hard Road, I've even thought of that, but fear of accidental damage to Crank end or worse, thing slip and I damage crank body  ,I held off lol.  Just FYI this bike has only covered 4K.. hence my hesitation to screw things up any further!

[BanditsHigh]

Only around 25k, but the front left head oil drain tube has rusted away and it's been letting oil out and moisture in for quite a while now, so most likely its run low on oil at some point between top ups and I've buggered it.

Oh I know above these engines, my K3 has done around 103K miles ... used to change oil every 2500 miles and filter every 5000 miles ... I had the head skimmed and gas flowed, PC-III, full akra, so it was in the 125bhp range ... still on the original clutch and it started again after sitting for seven years without much problem.

With regards the angle grinder idea ... I'd though of that but a lot of people wouldn't have the confidence to do it, but it'd work. I just recently cut my front sprocket off as it just wouldn't move, had to cut about 3/4 of it before I got it off.

The metal tends to start bluing due to the heat as it gets thin, so take it slow and steady and it'll be off before you know it.

I was asking where you were as I'd have come round and given you a hand, but feck travelling that distance!!

All the best ... Barry

P.S. You'd also need to remove one (at least) of the cams to give enough slack in the cam chain to get the crank out.

[bladey]

Only around 25k, but the front left head oil drain tube has rusted away and it's been letting oil out and moisture in for quite a while now, so most likely its run low on oil at some point between top ups and I've buggered it.

Aaah, I see, sorry to hear mate, incidentally just seen this on fleabay:

Crankshaft

£115 plus u can make an offer on it! I'd say try £90.. may be as lucky as me! Looks in good nick tbh...

Oh I know above these engines, my K3 has done around 103K miles ... used to change oil every 2500 miles and filter every 5000 miles ... I had the head skimmed and gas flowed, PC-III, full akra, so it was in the 125bhp range ... still on the original clutch and it started again after sitting for seven years without much problem.

Yep they have a solid reputation these engine, that's why I love 'em, love to get full akra on it... ooooh and gas flowed yes please, something I could do myself , with some elbow grease. Gas flowed my old escort head many moons ago. Next summer ..maybe?

With regards the angle grinder idea ... I'd though of that but a lot of people wouldn't have the confidence to do it, but it'd work. I just recently cut my front sprocket off as it just wouldn't move, had to cut about 3/4 of it before I got it off.

The metal tends to start bluing due to the heat as it gets thin, so take it slow and steady and it'll be off before you know it.

Will leave as last resort if all else fails!

I was asking where you were as I'd have come round and given you a hand, but feck travelling that distance!!

Mark of a true biker.. honest to the core...love it!

P.S. You'd also need to remove one (at least) of the cams to give enough slack in the cam chain to get the crank out.

Yep you're absolutely spot on... forgot about that bit in my excitement, well the engine block has to come out anyway, might as well get off Cam covers.

Cheers Bladey

[BanditsHigh]

Yep you're absolutely spot on... forgot about that bit in my excitement, well the engine block has to come out anyway, might as well get off Cam covers.

Cheers Bladey

Well the engine doesn't have to come out if you can get the rotor off, so much easier and cheaper than having to take an engine out and get new main bearings!!

You have nothing to lose, get heat into that knackered rotor and have one last go at getting it off, it'll save you a lot of time and effort if you can.

Next for me is try turning the K4 over without starting to see what it sounds like. If it sounds as bad then I'm onto the engines out route, both the K3 and K4, 16 header bolts to do 

All the best ... Barry

[bladey]

Yep you're absolutely spot on... forgot about that bit in my excitement, well the engine block has to come out anyway, might as well get off Cam covers.

Cheers Bladey

Well the engine doesn't have to come out if you can get the rotor off, so much easier and cheaper than having to take an engine out and get new main bearings!!

You have nothing to lose, get heat into that knackered rotor and have one last go at getting it off, it'll save you a lot of time and effort if you can.

Next for me is try turning the K4 over without starting to see what it sounds like. If it sounds as bad then I'm onto the engines out route, both the K3 and K4, 16 header bolts to do 

All the best ... Barry

Barry see link for crankshaft on fleabay! Just in case u missed it!

Yes defo easy route is to try all methods to pop of rotor.. but if all else fails then block has to come out.

[Hooli]

Just tapered Eric. Have never understood why a taper? Taper with keyway no better. splined shaft 👍Diff makes do it diff ways, all about cost to manufacture?

Not really any different to say Ford engines etc these days. A '08 Fiesta 1.25 I once did a head gasket on has tapered pulleys with no keyway for the cambelt. I didn't think it was trust worthy either, but it makes timing them damn easy & I've not heard of one slipping.