Removed downpipes looking for Oil loss clues - photos!

[grog]

Vonny, roughly a litre every 2000 k, thats gonna be hard to figure out. I have no more answers. Looking forward to your solution. Personally, id live with it. Stick a litre in at 2k and change at 4. My oil always changed at 4 but lucky she doesnt use a drop. Years ago wife and i had exactly same cars, same ks. Hers used no oil, mine same as your bike. No idea why, neither ever been apart or overheated.

[vonny232]

I tried turning over the bike without the fuel pump connected. I didnt manage to find any oil spots, maybe the Oil was too viscous (as it was a cold day) or I didnt turn it over long enough? (I turned it over for about 10 seconds).

However, I did take off the two PAIRs caps and had a look in there. Interestingly, the inner chamber on each side had a noticeable oil build up which was not present on the outer chambers. See the pictures.

The chamber on the Right side of the engine had the most Oil build up. The chamber on the Left side of the engine was also oily but not as bad. Both outer chambers were blackened but not oily at all, they seemed dry.

Maybe this correlates with what I observed previously, which was a larger carbon build up in the two inner cylinder exhaust portals?

Is this something worth exploring more?

[Eric GSX1400K3]

Yes, check the airbox should be oily  too in that case as the air is vented back into the airbox.  If it was mine id be removing all the pairs  system and fitting blanking plates or plugs as most have  done.

[vonny232]

I thought the reed valves prevent the dirty air returning? Plus how come the two outer PAIR chambers are dry?

[rollerfish01]

Hi Vonny, are the spark plugs oil fouled ?

[vonny232]

Hi Vonny, are the spark plugs oil fouled ?

I didnt have the correct socket, so will try and remove the plugs next week when it arrives.

Am I right in presuming that if all 4 plugs are clean, then the problem is likely somewhere around the exhaust portal (the PAIRS vent o-ring or the valve stem seals)?

[T 24]

Hi Vonny, are the spark plugs oil fouled ?

I didnt have the correct socket, so will try and remove the plugs next week when it arrives.

Use torque wrench when tightening the plugs - 11nm.

[rollerfish01]

I didnt have the correct socket, so will try and remove the plugs next week when it arrives.

Am I right in presuming that if all 4 plugs are clean, then the problem is likely somewhere around the exhaust portal (the PAIRS vent o-ring or the valve stem seals)?

I have no sure answer for that... I think if the plugs are clean, at least the oil leaking would not affect the performance of the bike very much.
On my high mileage second hand bike, I replaced the PAIRS o-ring, the valve stem seals and put on a spare cylinder head, it fixed certain problems.
But it still burn motor oil, so I guess it was the piston rings worn out, I plan to replace them later.

[vonny232]

Didn't a compression or leak down test rule  out the piston rings?

What is the mileage of your bike and how much oil does it burn?

[T 24]

Compression or leak test will tell you something about your compression rings, but it won't tell you about stucked oil rings.
You can try highly washing oils.
I have 143 000 km / 89 000 miles and the oil consumption is 0.1-0.2L / 5000 km.

[rollerfish01]

Didn't a compression or leak down test rule  out the piston rings?

What is the mileage of your bike and how much oil does it burn?

I think my bike is an exceptional example, it should be poorly maintained by the previous owner(s).
e.g. it has a broken exhaust valve, oil flood PAIR chambers...
The compression test reading is normal. It burn around 1-1.5 liter for 5000 kms (Summer burn more, Winter burn less)
The symptoms is when the engine was fully heat up (or became very hot in summer time) or run for 20-30kms, white smoke would occasionally came out from the exhaust when the bike is stopped at the traffic light. White smoke would disappeared when the bike run again.
Also the spark plugs were oil fouled lightly after 500-800km. One of the spark plug would stop firing when the oil fouled became serious enough. I then noticed and would take the spark plugs out for cleaning and they became good again.
So I GUESS it may be the piston ring lightly worn out (or it get stuck?) and then burn oil when the engine become very hot.
 

[KiwiCol]

Didn't a compression or leak down test rule  out the piston rings?

What is the mileage of your bike and how much oil does it burn?

I think my bike is an exceptional example, it should be poorly maintained by the previous owner(s).
e.g. it has a broken exhaust valve, oil flood PAIR chambers...
The compression test reading is normal. It burn around 1-1.5 liter for 5000 kms (Summer burn more, Winter burn less)
The symptoms is when the engine was fully heat up (or became very hot in summer time) or run for 20-30kms, white smoke would occasionally came out from the exhaust when the bike is stopped at the traffic light. White smoke would disappeared when the bike run again.
Also the spark plugs were oil fouled lightly after 500-800km. One of the spark plug would stop firing when the oil fouled became serious enough. I then noticed and would take the spark plugs out for cleaning and they became good again.
So I GUESS it may be the piston ring lightly worn out (or it get stuck?) and then burn oil when the engine become very hot.
 

-  when the engine is hot, the oil is thinner & passes worn rings easier.   Could try some additives into the oil to help clean / stop the oil loss,  or put thicker oil in, or strip, check & repair it where required.

[T 24]

Could try some additives into the oil to help clean

=Highly washing heavy duty diesel motor oil, like Mobil Delvac MX 15w40 or Teboil SHPD 15w40 or Castrol... etc.

[vonny232]

Could try some additives into the oil to help clean / stop the oil loss,  or put thicker oil in, or strip, check & repair it where required.

This is something that was mentioned before. Someone said the Oil Rings might have become gummed up with burned Oil which reduces their tension and allows Oil to pass. Is this what you are suggesting?

T24 mentioned that worn/damaged Oil rings wont show up on a compression/leakdown test.

Ultimately there are a sequence of options to try and identify the problem, I just need to know that sequence

My plug removing socket arrived in the post today so ill whip off the plugs and take a look. Might even use an endoscopic camera to peek into the pistons to see if theres a noticeable buildup of burned oil on pistons 2 & 3...

[vonny232]

Oh, and I read elsewhere that a more agressive alternative to using washing Oil is to pour kerosene or penetrating Oil into the cylinders (via the spark plug holes), leave for 48 hours to try and unjam the rings, manually turn the engine over, then replace the Oil.

Any views on this?