Removed downpipes looking for Oil loss clues - photos!

[Andre]

Can the pairs set up leak oil into motor? It also only goes to exhaust side?

Yes, the PAIR pins have an o-ring to go with. Maybe one has been lost or misaligned when the head cover was off for valve clearance inspection. Good point Grog.

[vonny232]

OK cheers.

So checking the vacuum hoses?  How do I do that?

Check the PAIRS system seals?

As for a temporary breather,  how can I test this could have fixed the issue?

[Andre]

So checking the vacuum hoses?  How do I do that?

Well... you look at them for kinks and if they attached where they should be. See manual for where they should be. However, I don't see how that could cause oil consumption.

Check the PAIRS system seals?

Lift the valve cover and have a look. See manual for their position.

As for a temporary breather,  how can I test this could have fixed the issue?

Let @grog answer this

[grog]

To check if temp breather fixes, only way is to ride and see if it stops oil consumption. Something like Spizzoils, posted a while back.

[vonny232]

Sorry to be a pain but I still cannot see where the Oil can leak into the PAIR system? Where is the location of the potential breach between the internal cavity of the valve assembly, and where the gases are vented into the exhaust system (if thats where its vented?)

You said to lift the valve cover to take a look, but isnt the PAIR valve (and seal) located on TOP of the valve cover, so lifting the cover isnt necessary?

These pictures are from the service manual.

[vonny232]

Update - I found this picture online.

Are you referring to the round, interconnected rubber seals in the centre of this picture?

[Andre]

No. I mean these:

[vonny232]

Ok thanks. So where does this hole go to? Where does it vent into the exhaust?

Sorry for all the questions, I just need to understand as best I can.

[Andre]

I can't tell you where it vents into the exhaust. May be a long time until I have an opportunity to look.

[Eric GSX1400K3]

Have you actually measured how much oil you are burning? Do you get blue smoke on acceleration?   Have you checked oil level with the bike on the centre or side stand (or on rear stand if you don't have a centre stand).  To me, if you are burning oil you should see this in the exhausst, so this  means either worn rings or valve stem seals.  The motor may be low ks, but if  its been abused, there's no reason why  rings or valve seals can't be worn. The carbon build up on pots 2 and 3 tells me that these are running too rich, so you need to balance the 4 throttle bodies first.

As far as I know pairs runs only  on the intake air so should not affect oil consumption at combustion.  You will always get some oil in the pot as the rings never fully clean all the oil off the cylinder  wall.   

Without knowing the history of the motor, it's hard to pinpoint, but again, if actually burning oil it can only be via the rings or valve stem seals.

[vonny232]

Hi Eric,

Yes, I have measured the consumption numerous times. Its approx half litre every 600 miles or so. I always check the Oil on the centre stand (with a spirit level too lol). Its definitely being lost!

There is no noticeable Oil plume but I have been told theres sometimes (rarely) a small puff of smoke when I pull away, but nothing beyond that.

I had a compression test done last year and whilst the numbers were out a bit (approx 130PSI each cyinder) I took comfort from the consistency of the 4 pressure readings which infer that the pressure will be Ok and its the equipment that needs calibrating. I may be wrong there, but thats my initial thoughts.

Regarding PAIRS - Doesent the system vent into the exhaust? I though the point of it was to burn uncombusted gases?

Andre - regarding turning over the engine with the fuel pump disconnected (you suggested a while ago), do you mean the electric connection to the pump, or the fuel line disconnected?

[Andre]

Regarding PAIRS - Doesent the system vent into the exhaust? I though the point of it was to burn uncombusted gases?

The air is taken from the airbox and it is vented into the exhaust ports. No oil involved unless dowel pin/o-ring is missing or damaged. Then oil will pass through it. Easiest check for that is to take off the cylinder head cover and take a look.

Andre - regarding turning over the engine with the fuel pump disconnected (you suggested a while ago), do you mean the electric connection to the pump, or the fuel line disconnected?

Disconnect the electric connection (connector is in the vicinity of the airfilter). IMO lots easier and better than taking the spark plugs out (if you go by the plug route you should ground them to avoid damage to the coils).

[vonny232]

Thanks Andre,

Well after my dry running tests (hopefully this weekend), the next step might be to remove the valve cover.

I note on a previous post you say the following parts will be needed, does the same apply to me?:

When you take off the head cover you will need:


Part numbers found here: Robinsons http://www.robinsonsfoundry.co.uk/shop/online-store/suzuki-parts-finder/gsx/gsx1400/k2-k3-k4-k5-k6-k7-2002-2007.htm#!gsx1400cylheadcover EXCEPT for the Suzuki Three Bond.

These 3 were all I needed.
1x CYLINDER HEAD COVER GASKET (11173-42F01)
2x GASKET (09168-08029) It says gasket but they are metal, kinda like the ones for the brake hoses.
1x Suzuki Three Bond, black (or equivalent) 9900031140THR

Unlikely that you will need
8x WASHER (09161-11008) These say washer but are made of rubber.

Depending on what you find you may need one or more of these
4x pins (09206-08007)
4x gaskets (11182-35F00)

A normal thickness gauge (.10 to .30mm in steps of .05mm) will do for just checking. Should the unlikely case happen that you need to adjust valve play, you need gauges with finer steps!

It is a fairly easy task, but be vigilant not to drop anything into the engine.


Oh, and regarding the Threebond, is this the stuff?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Paste-Joint-Threebond-1207b-Tube-100g-Black/383332938350

[Andre]

Honestly, you probably get away with just the Three Bond. Everything else can be reused as long as it is not broken/missing.

Oh, and regarding the Threebond, is this the stuff?

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Paste-Joint-Threebond-1207b-Tube-100g-Black/383332938350

Yes, that's the stuff.

With the cover off you have an opportunity to check valve clearances. They are probably within tolerance but I think a bit of practice in the mechanical realm will benefit you.

[Eric GSX1400K3]

Hi Eric,

Yes, I have measured the consumption numerous times. Its approx half litre every 600 miles or so. I always check the Oil on the centre stand (with a spirit level too lol). Its definitely being lost!

There is no noticeable Oil plume but I have been told theres sometimes (rarely) a small puff of smoke when I pull away, but nothing beyond that.

I had a compression test done last year and whilst the numbers were out a bit (approx 130PSI each cyinder) I took comfort from the consistency of the 4 pressure readings which infer that the pressure will be Ok and its the equipment that needs calibrating. I may be wrong there, but thats my initial thoughts.

Regarding PAIRS - Doesent the system vent into the exhaust? I though the point of it was to burn uncombusted gases?

Andre - regarding turning over the engine with the fuel pump disconnected (you suggested a while ago), do you mean the electric connection to the pump, or the fuel line disconnected?

Thanks, Should 've  reread your earlier posts.  500ml in 600km is a lot of oil to lose.  To me if it's leaking past the pairs valves and entering the exhaust, you should have a fair bit of smoke me thinks.  Any other oil leaks around the engine?  What oil brand and grade are you running? Have checked the airbox for oil? It could be travelling up the pairs tuning and entering the airbox that  way.  Removal of the pairs valves and blanking off the covers is easy to do, see separate thread on here. Can't see where else you could  be losing oil apart from external leaks or via exhaust.