What fuel?

[T 24]

But the bike only needs 91

91 is not avalible here. 95 is minimum.

There is no harm if you use too high octanes, you only lose some money. But if you use too low octanes you can break your engine!

[northern]

Thank you for your thoughts.
In general, I was thinking the same, but it's good to have it written, for those who will have same questions. 

another question:
Does someone have personal experience with ethanol blend consequences for fuel system?

[Kiwifruit]

Am pretty sure Methanol absorbs water Col. Might be why they mention corrosion inhibitors.

[Batkwaka]

98, not really needed for the GSX1400 but I fuel the K1600 with it as well and I've never had trouble.

[T 24]

@northern , I have used many years (10 years??) those 5% and 10% blends (we can't buy anything else) in cars, boats and motorcycles, and I haven't noticed any harms of that small % of ethanol, even in two strokers..
I have heard that some rubbers won't work with ethanol, but I haven't found them..
That ethanol discussion is mostly mass hysteria. (IMO)

[Red Biker]

What a great thread guys, I just pull up and whack it in (see Mrs Red) so this stuff is great. I'll pay more attention at the pump next time 

[Blubber]

For winter storage i try and get a full tank with 98 in it.
During normal driving it's euro95 but from the bigger brands.

i try and keep away from those small fuel stations who also cater agricultural machine and boats.

[Andre]

Suzuki Australia warns in its FAQ against use any ethanol blends in their bikes. They link to url]https://www.fcai.com.au/environment/can-my-vehicle-operate-on-ethanol-blend-petrol[/url] where it says that all Suzuki bikes are suitable to run on E5 and E10. (Not true btw)

Same link states that ALL Yamaha and Hondas are not suited for E5/10 (Also not true). Kawasaki also not suited except for those on a short list.

According to Suzuki Germany https://motorrad.suzuki.de/service/faq/technik/suzuki-motorraeder-und-e10-kraftstoff

All bikes model year 2002 and up are ok with E10.
All bikes model year 1991 and previous are not suitable for E10.

For 1991-2001 see list in linked document. Those not listed should not be standing for more than one month. Carburated models, despite approval, can cause rough running engines. If you experience this you should discontinue E10.

A long running German bike journal, in an article overall positive towards ethanol blends, explains the water problem with ethanol:

"E10 binds about one percent of water at 20 ° C until segregation, at 0 ° C only 0.5 percent. If there is more water in the tank, it separates with the ethanol from the gasoline (phase separation) and forms a highly corrosive water-alcohol mixed phase at the bottom of the tank. In the above, now ethanol-free, petrol drops the knock resistance, which carries the risk of serious engine damage. These effects can significantly reduced when the tank is full."

It depends on the circumstances then. If the ethanol has bound more than 50% water at 20° and temperature drops to 0° phase separation will occur.

The bike journal also states:

"In carburetor engines or fuel injection without lambda probe, in extreme cases with E10 the mixture can lean too much. In order to avoid heat damage, one would have to re-jet or adjust ecu."

Even at the price of being perceived as hysteric, I stay away from ethanol blends if at all possible. My 14 runs just fine on premium 98 ethanol free

[T 24]

@Andre  You are correct. Dont use that ethanol blended stuff if you can buy real petrol. There is nothing good with that ethanol scrab.
That's "EU nonsense" for that "climate religion".
We poor bastards here near north pole use those ethanol blended fuels because we cant buy pure ethanol free petrol.
But, when I had used that E5 and E 10 few years I notised that it wasn't so bad I believed. Nothing had changed.

[Andre]

To be honest, I have used E5 (1st K2) and E10 (cars) in past vehicles WITHOUT noticing problems. E10 did reduce my gas milage, offsetting the pennies saved. All my previous vehicles were used very frequently all throughout the year. That is different now. Only ride when temp is above 15° unless it's itching severly

Use of E10 is approved for the 14, but it was certainly not designed for it. Additives might be added to fuel (more so by the bigger brands) to counteract some of the negatives of ethanol blends. I don't want these as long as I don't need them.

And yes, it is a "climate religion" with huge lobbies behind it! Remember the diesel. Man, was it pushed here in Germany as environmental "friendly". Having lived in California in the 80's I wondered why there were no diesel cars and pick-ups. Well, they were aware of the NOX issue even then. German companies pushed their diesel over there using deception. Now they are paying billions over there in restitutions and fines. No end in sight. Guess what German diesel owners get - ineffective software updates and warm words (buy our new clean diesels!).

Our citizens pay huge sums to establish "regenerative" energy while large firms are excluded from paying their share.

[Rynglieder]

Interesting stuff, especially about the impact of water.

My 30 year old Z1300 tank pin-holed and then started to severely rot, the guy who works on it for me said that it was probably due to water sitting in the bottom of the tank whilst the lighter fuel floated to the top during its winder lay-ups over the course of three decades.

If Ethanol creates a bigger problem it may be worth making the effort to completely drain down the tank if you are not going to use the bike for a couple of months.

Generally I alternate between standard and premium grade fuels in my bikes for no other reason than that I was confused as to what is best for them. I can't really see any great performance differences although the moody Z13 (carb model) does seem a bit easier to start up if it has the premium fuel in the tank. A squirt of carb cleaner into the air filter housing is also usually required if it has had several weeks off.

[Andre]

Draining the tank is a good idea when not using the bike. Add draining the carbs as well. Dutch guy with a Z1100 (what a great looking bike) told me that his carbs were clogged up with "gel-type" stuff. His mechanic said that came from ethanol.

There is also the thought that acetic acid develops chemically in ethanol blends which attacks the metals in the fuel system. Some additive producer claims that this is enhanced through microorganisms especially when riding as the fuel gets sloshed around and oxygen gets mixed in.

As of 2011 only Kawasakis build from 2006 onward are E10 approved.

By and by more vehicles are approved for ethanol. I'd go by that if I were to buy a new bike and keep it just a few years. But all these approvals mean little to me. No one has done testing over the time span I plan to ride my 14 (including the 15 years done by PO). If I had no choice I'd look into additives major fuel brands put into their ethanol blends and select accordingly. Maybe add some extra additive. Don't need to yet, may never do as synthetic petrol might make an appearance on the market in the future.

[T 24]

Draining the tank is a good idea when not using the bike. Add draining the carbs as well. Dutch guy with a Z1100 (what a great looking bike) told me that his carbs were clogged up with "gel-type" stuff. His mechanic said that came from ethanol.

Unfortunately nothing is so simple. Draining the tank is OK when not using the bike, if you keep the bike in warm garage etc.
If you store the bike in shed, where temperatures are going up and down, it can be better to fill up the tank and use good petrol stabilizer to avoid condensation of moisture and rust (like we do with boats in winter). Of course it depends on storage time.
And yes, draining carbs is the best solution against that gel-type scum, and fuel stabilizer is the second best (not so good)

[KiwiCol]

What we need in instances like this is a non corroding fuel tank.  Plastic or carbon fibre maybe?  Even a coating on the inside of the tank perhaps?

[grog]

i use and sell this stuff. best ive come across. have seen demos on how good compared to other products even 95&98 fuel. there is no proof that 95/98 even have cleaners in them. hard to prove or dis prove according to wynns. it just disintergrates build up, keeps fuel stable. can be then stored for winter lay off. each 300ml bottle removes its own volume of water. a great product. each bottle will do 3 or 4 tanks on 14. my tank is spotless inside. snake oil from me, no, i reckon its just the best. http://www.wynns.net/product/i/complete-fuel-system-cleaner-petrol