Bike Smoking when coming off revs, Rider behind said smells very rich after new

[seth]

Not what you wanted Mate. Would piss me right off. I really doubted the pairs seals.Did it smoke b4 you changed oil? Maybe try diff brand.Big/ expensive job head off. Hire compressor, buy spring tool, have a go with head on. Theres a product Forte seal conditioner, gets good reviews, not sure how it goes with clutch.

If you change the oil and give it a try .
Just remember to also empty the oil cooler and remove as much of the current oil as possible. Before refilling

Good luck buddy sounds more and more of a nightmare but I'm thinking of the easy/cheaper things to try before getting into the motor .
If you can change. The valvestem seals without taking the head off that will be a bonus .

[Xdiavel]

Thanks lads,

My friend has an air compressor and big double garage albeit filled with bikes lol so will have some space. I have ordered the seals at £78 for 17 -one spare for my shat luck, and going to buy the seal tool kit which included the air line etc for £28 + some Moly.

I can get the rocker cover off in around 40mins taking my time I feel, and should be able to get the cams etc out in another 30mins.

So famous last words, I hope to have it all done in a day.

Somebody will get a hell of a bike when I come to sell this lol

Spoke to a garage and got quoted £800 and would remove the head. So it's really worth having a go yourself.

I used to change these seals and lap valves on old single cylinder Generators 20yrs ago so pretty similar but may just be very awkward to get to some while still in the bike.

[grog]

Best luck Mate, great attitude. 👏👍

[Xdiavel]

Well finally gave this a go Yesterday between two of us. We started at approx 9am and took a fair few coffee breaks,albeit very short and finished at 8pm, the Two cylinders beneath the frame were the time consumers and the collets.
But considering we did this with the head in situ and a first attempt I thought that wasn't too shabby. It has now lost it's slight  missfire on idle which is good,prob due to burning oil too lol so sounds to be running a lot better atm I run it up for some time today in the garage and so far no smoke :-) but not counting my chickens just yet without a fall ride out test when  the weather clears up.

I did stick the bore scope back down and the piston crown is still looking a bit wet which I am not happy about but not seeing a collection of oil built up on the piston like before but will check again in a few days to see if there has been any weeping. Fingers crossed it will be ok.

but thankfully that job is now done and £800 saved.

[grog]

Top job Mate. What tools you used etc would be a good post👍

[Xdiavel]

Top job Mate. What tools you used etc would be a good post👍

Hi Mate,
Thanks, I really do hope this has sorted it now, the bike is running nice though now so has made a difference. Makes you wonder how many others are suffering from similar as only noticed on this when idling for some time and a camera thrown down it's neck 

The main tool used was off ebay for £35 and cannot see how you could do it without it tbh so I was very glad I stumbled across it. It's called (Cylinder Head Valve Spring Compressor Stem Seal Installer Tool Kit UK)

Tool of the day was a Flexible Magnetic pick up tool with 500mm Flexible Gooseneck with 6mm wide magnet end. Amazon £5.49

You will also need ( which was another lucky find ) Draper 10mm 12mm Adaptor for Compression Tester. (£6.99 EBAY) This is for the end of the air line to fit the diameter of the spark plug hole.

I did replace all Gaskets which wasn't too cheap but I could have got away the old ones but as they're all 21yrs old now, Then Why not.

Most of the knowledge is in the manual where it shows you how to re-do the timing etc we put a long screwdriver down each plug hole and brought each piston up to TDC so it covers your arse if the valve drops as it wont disappear into the cylinder. Best bit of advice I can give is fill each oil drain hole/Cam chain holes with rags as it really did save my arse on several occasions where a collet would ping off somewhere or drop of the screwdriver.

We was short on time as only had the day to get it done but if you could span it over a couple of days it wouldn't be too bad.

It IS a Two person job though.

[Xdiavel]

Hi again lol

Just an update on this. The valve stems seals did not fix the issue sadly.

I changed the aftermarket headers back to oem and thought that sorted it as well but oh no!

After a very spirited ride Yesterday and the bike sitting around 80 degrees I noticed smoke again. To 100% rule out fuelling issues I put the  full oem exhaust back on, and ran it up to temp and guess what smoke when hot when revving and letting go!

So I really don't think this is valve stems as all been done. It only has 9k mls  atm and idles and rides beautifully. And not noticing any oil loss albeit I do not ride it very much, roughly 1500mls pa.

No smoke on start up.
No smoke when riding.
No smoke when cold.
No oil in filter box.

The bike looks pretty much brand new. I had the sump of before and the internals are as new looking under it.

Any other ideas please?

I am really starting to hate this thing now especially as it is in  beautifull condition.

Regards

[Eric GSX1400K3]

Do a compression test. I'd be suspecting piston rings are worn.

[seth]

Hi again lol

Just an update on this. The valve stems seals did not fix the issue sadly.

I changed the aftermarket headers back to oem and thought that sorted it as well but oh no!

After a very spirited ride Yesterday and the bike sitting around 80 degrees I noticed smoke again. To 100% rule out fuelling issues I put the  full oem exhaust back on, and ran it up to temp and guess what smoke when hot when revving and letting go!

So I really don't think this is valve stems as all been done. It only has 9k mls  atm and idles and rides beautifully. And not noticing any oil loss albeit I do not ride it very much, roughly 1500mls pa.

No smoke on start up.
No smoke when riding.
No smoke when cold.
No oil in filter box.

The bike looks pretty much brand new. I had the sump of before and the internals are as new looking under it.

Any other ideas please?

I am really starting to hate this thing now especially as it is in  beautifull condition.

Regards

Other ideas
I do remember someone having a problem similar to this and it was the seals around the pairs tunnel letting small amounts of oil into the valves.
This was caused by using the wrong oil (they'd usef fully synthetic motorcycle oil and it damaged the seals)
There are 2 small o'rings easy replaced between the rockercover and the head .
I used to have pictures but can't get my phone to work
Changing these seals takes 5 mins if you have the top off.

[Xdiavel]

Hi again lol

Just an update on this. The valve stems seals did not fix the issue sadly.

I changed the aftermarket headers back to oem and thought that sorted it as well but oh no!

After a very spirited ride Yesterday and the bike sitting around 80 degrees I noticed smoke again. To 100% rule out fuelling issues I put the  full oem exhaust back on, and ran it up to temp and guess what smoke when hot when revving and letting go!

So I really don't think this is valve stems as all been done. It only has 9k mls  atm and idles and rides beautifully. And not noticing any oil loss albeit I do not ride it very much, roughly 1500mls pa.

No smoke on start up.
No smoke when riding.
No smoke when cold.
No oil in filter box.

The bike looks pretty much brand new. I had the sump of before and the internals are as new looking under it.

Any other ideas please?

I am really starting to hate this thing now especially as it is in  beautifull condition.

Regards

Other ideas
I do remember someone having a problem similar to this and it was the seals around the pairs tunnel letting small amounts of oil into the valves.
This was caused by using the wrong oil (they'd usef fully synthetic motorcycle oil and it damaged the seals)
There are 2 small o'rings easy replaced between the rockercover and the head .
I used to have pictures but can't get my phone to work
Changing these seals takes 5 mins if you have the top off.

Hi Seth,

Thanks for replying, Sadly I have replaced these when I did the valve stem seals. So it isn't those.

I'm beginning to think the worst and the rings, But cannot believe the rings are gone at 9k mls unless the oil rings are stuck where it's been sitting for yrs.

But inside the bores are like new and the piston crown, albeit a bit wet. 😞

[Kiwifruit]

Is it possible your oil level too high ?

[Hooli]

Crankcase vent blocked? that can force oil past the rings.

I'd be amazed if the rings had gone at 9k.

[seth]

Hi again lol

Just an update on this. The valve stems seals did not fix the issue sadly.

I changed the aftermarket headers back to oem and thought that sorted it as well but oh no!

After a very spirited ride Yesterday and the bike sitting around 80 degrees I noticed smoke again. To 100% rule out fuelling issues I put the  full oem exhaust back on, and ran it up to temp and guess what smoke when hot when revving and letting go!

So I really don't think this is valve stems as all been done. It only has 9k mls  atm and idles and rides beautifully. And not noticing any oil loss albeit I do not ride it very much, roughly 1500mls pa.

No smoke on start up.
No smoke when riding.
No smoke when cold.
No oil in filter box.

The bike looks pretty much brand new. I had the sump of before and the internals are as new looking under it.

Any other ideas please?

I am really starting to hate this thing now especially as it is in  beautifull condition.

Regards

Other ideas
I do remember someone having a problem similar to this and it was the seals around the pairs tunnel letting small amounts of oil into the valves.
This was caused by using the wrong oil (they'd usef fully synthetic motorcycle oil and it damaged the seals)
There are 2 small o'rings easy replaced between the rockercover and the head .
I used to have pictures but can't get my phone to work
Changing these seals takes 5 mins if you have the top off.

Hi Seth,

Thanks for replying, Sadly I have replaced these when I did the valve stem seals. So it isn't those.

I'm beginning to think the worst and the rings, But cannot believe the rings are gone at 9k mls unless the oil rings are stuck where it's been sitting for yrs.

But inside the bores are like new and the piston crown, albeit a bit wet. 😞

Hi again lol

Just an update on this. The valve stems seals did not fix the issue sadly.

I changed the aftermarket headers back to oem and thought that sorted it as well but oh no!

After a very spirited ride Yesterday and the bike sitting around 80 degrees I noticed smoke again. To 100% rule out fuelling issues I put the  full oem exhaust back on, and ran it up to temp and guess what smoke when hot when revving and letting go!

So I really don't think this is valve stems as all been done. It only has 9k mls  atm and idles and rides beautifully. And not noticing any oil loss albeit I do not ride it very much, roughly 1500mls pa.

No smoke on start up.
No smoke when riding.
No smoke when cold.
No oil in filter box.

The bike looks pretty much brand new. I had the sump of before and the internals are as new looking under it.

Any other ideas please?

I am really starting to hate this thing now especially as it is in  beautifull condition.

Regards

Other ideas
I do remember someone having a problem similar to this and it was the seals around the pairs tunnel letting small amounts of oil into the valves.
This was caused by using the wrong oil (they'd usef fully synthetic motorcycle oil and it damaged the seals)
There are 2 small o'rings easy replaced between the rockercover and the head .
I used to have pictures but can't get my phone to work
Changing these seals takes 5 mins if you have the top off.

That's very low mileage for that kind if problem  but least your going through things methodically and that's all you can do really
Wish you all the best with it

[grog]

No idea if im correct but same symptoms.Back in 70s, first Z1 Kawas, Nissans at dealership where i worked, they blew blue smoke. It was due to rings not seating with cylinder walls. Brand new machines, started numerous time showrooms etc, never warmed up or used reasonably hard, that is no pressure on rings, they need pressure to bed to cylinder walls.Glazed bores they call it. Kawa answer was they supplied a kit to pull motor down, rehone cylinders,no new rings fitted. Nissan answer, they supplied an abrasive powder, rev motor, let it suck in thru carby, take for a 10k hard run, change engine oil. It worked 75%.After this long post, im thinking you have glazed bores.Must be a deglazing product you can try. Ill see what i can find.

[Andre]

But inside the bores are like new and the piston crown, albeit a bit wet. 😞

"Bores are like new" - I assume that includes the proper honing-marks. So no glazing!?