GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => Engine & Gearbox => Topic started by: Jambo on Thursday, 26 November 2020, 08:43 AM

Title: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Jambo on Thursday, 26 November 2020, 08:43 AM
Hi guys. Tryed to start the bike the other day and it fail.
I suspected the battery was low so I ordered a OPTIMATE charger and charged the battery.
With battery fully charged I installed it on the bike and it did not start. Same grinding noise.
Starter is burnt? Is there a way to know? btw the battery is a EXIDE AGM and the charger gave the thumbs up.
Last few times it actually started, the starter was turning rather slow.

How should one diagnose this properly?

Cheers

Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: KiwiCol on Thursday, 26 November 2020, 08:53 AM
I'd start with the earth and power connection to the starter. Check they're tight & in good clean condition.   Run a multimeter over then whilst trying to start it & check the voltage going into the starter.  If that's all good, time to look into the starter motor itself I'd say.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Thursday, 26 November 2020, 06:58 PM
Try another battery.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: grog on Thursday, 26 November 2020, 07:20 PM
Jambo, multimeter on input wire to starter. Try starting, if you have above 11.5 trying, starter is stuffed.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: gsxbarmy on Friday, 27 November 2020, 01:39 AM
Also check that the main earth lead from your battery to your frame is good.

https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=4828.0
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Big Phil on Friday, 27 November 2020, 04:57 AM
This type of fault is almost always an earthing problem. In this case with the heavy current being drawn at starting there is a high possibility the ground leads have become brittle and hence high impedance. I would attach a temporary parallel ground (earth) lead from the battery to the engine and another from the engine to the frame. If it still doesn't start then the starter motor is probably faulty.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Friday, 27 November 2020, 05:36 AM
It could be any combination of connections negative or positive, or even the starter relay
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Big Phil on Friday, 27 November 2020, 06:43 AM
Yes I absolutely agree it could be anyone of those issues Oz. But surely you have to begin somewhere??? I would start from the basics and that is the main ground (earth) wiring connection first. One it's easy to do and secondly it's probably the most common fault. It's happened to me twice!
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Friday, 27 November 2020, 06:50 AM
I like you Phil
Calling me Oz instead of Irish  ;)
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Big Phil on Friday, 27 November 2020, 06:52 AM
Sorry Mate but that's made me laugh. Irish becomes an Ozzie😂
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: grog on Friday, 27 November 2020, 06:56 AM
No need for any temp wiring, just use multimeter at different points.Much easier.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Friday, 27 November 2020, 07:06 AM
Quote from: grog on Friday, 27 November  2020, 06:56 AM
No need for any temp wiring, just use multimeter at different points.Much easier.
Easy for those that know Grog, but even the experts get caught out.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect9
Post by: Big Phil on Friday, 27 November 2020, 07:34 AM
Not so in my opinion Grog. A multimeter will still show a ground between battery, engine and frame under most conditions however small the connection remains. When you are starting a bike the current draw is at its highest point. If the ground cable is adding resistance due any number of issues, it reduces the current (and hence power) which is available to start (turn over the engine) but it does not mean this will be seen as a fault on a multimeter. Even under load with a faulty ground cable a multimeter may and probably will still give a zero or very low ohmic measurement. Say what you want and stick with theory but I will always go by an actual physical test .
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Friday, 27 November 2020, 07:42 AM
That's why you should keep it simple stupid, jump start with your car battery, if it turns over OK then it may be connections, short out the starter motor relay with bike battery only if it turns over it may be relay, if it doesn't it may be battery...................
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Friday, 27 November 2020, 07:49 AM
Quote from: Big Phil on Friday, 27 November  2020, 06:52 AM
Sorry Mate but that's made me laugh. Irish becomes an Ozzie😂

No hope of that I'm too clever  :stir:
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: grog on Friday, 27 November 2020, 11:34 AM
Fair enough Phil, ill take your point.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Jambo on Friday, 27 November 2020, 10:52 PM
Thanks yall for the input, after much concideration I went for the easiest task suggested...

Quote from: Irish in Oz on Thursday, 26 November  2020, 06:58 PM
Try another battery.

I jumpstarted the bike with my car and it worked, not perfect, still not as quik as I expected.
Ordered a OEM Yuasa YTX14-bs, preped it and charged it.
Bike instantly started, at a speed I think should be, 1sec top!
Multimeter showed, while cranking, min 10.5v, charging 14.3v average. Standalone battery 12.8v.
I haven't riden it yet, but the idle sounds sweet, although she sounds a bit angry from the pipes...good for the jaywalking pedestrians, if you know what I mean!

Lesson learnt. Never trust a super smart charger. Although the new battery did end up perfectly charged, old battery was given an OK by the charger.

You might wanna move this to electrics

Cheers
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: KiwiCol on Saturday, 28 November 2020, 05:37 AM
You can have 12.65v showing on a meter but the battery doesn't have the ability to start the bike anymore because it's stuffed. This happens with old batteries & ones that have been neglected & let get run too flat too often. Once or twice & you may get away with it, but keep doing that to a starting battery & you'll knacker it. 
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Saturday, 28 November 2020, 07:22 AM
The smart charger lights are only an indication of voltage, to test it properly you need a load tester which I think KiwiCol and Grog have.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Saturday, 28 November 2020, 07:47 AM

[/quote]
I jumpstarted the bike with my car and it worked, not perfect, still not as quik as I expected.
[/quote]

Probably because the bike battery was pulling the car battery down.
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: KiwiCol on Saturday, 28 November 2020, 09:22 AM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Saturday, 28 November  2020, 07:22 AM
The smart charger lights are only an indication of voltage, to test it properly you need a load tester which I think KiwiCol and Grog have.

Correct, a digital one & a 500amp carbon pile one.  The digital get the most use as it's smaller and more readily accessible
Title: Re: Starter doesn't connect
Post by: Irish in Oz on Saturday, 28 November 2020, 07:27 PM
I have an electrical test meter we call a Megger (brand name) for checking circuits. Like you Col I have digital and analogue types, my preference is the analogue, on departing Oz I took some test equipment with me but my son grabbed the analogue for himself and the more I use the digital it just isn't getting any better.
I looked at the carbon pile testers online about 60 quid over here, not bad value IMO.