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Technically Speaking => Engine & Gearbox => Topic started by: nickygee11 on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 06:43 PM

Title: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: nickygee11 on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 06:43 PM
Hi Lads and Lasses

Does anybody have experience of draining oil without removing sump plug, and how did you achieve it?

Last oil change, I stripped the thread on sum plug.  Managed to install a replacement and loc-tite it in place and it's been solid for the intervening 3k miles but would rather avoid removing sump plug again if possible

Thanks in advance

Nickygee
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Mick_J on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 07:09 PM
The only way I can think of is to remove the sump but that might cause more problems.  Might be a case of getting your sump repaired properly.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 07:10 PM
Only way I can see is to remove the sump .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Suzuki boi on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 08:18 PM
Ye Im not sure if those oil draining pumps that work on the cars will work on a bike.
I can't see the tube reaching down to the sump through were you put oil in.
Only way as Seth said is remove sump but I can' see that being fairly messy?
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: nickygee11 on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 08:38 PM
Thanks for the feedback, as I thought.  I did try to get a hose in for a vacuum pump that I have used on cars before but no way of getting into the sump.  Guess I'll just get in about to the plug and see how it looks this time.  :salute:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: grog on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 09:02 PM
Nicky obviously perfect way is sump off and repair or maybe fit helicoil in situ. Other chance is get fumoto, thats what i use. Lots dont like but i do. Glue it in with Stagg, great product.DI03140
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Notty on Wednesday, 28 August 2019, 11:18 PM
I got a fumoto off Barmy and its soooo easy to do oil changes  :)
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: nickygee11 on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 01:22 AM
https://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f111_details.htm

This looks like the fella...once installed, shouldn't need to remove again. 

:grin:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: seth on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 01:56 AM
@nickygee11
Just be carefull to get one that doesn't stuck to far below the bike as they can catch the road on speed bumps ECT.
I think there are several different designs and models of these things .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: KiwiCol on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 03:24 AM
Quote from: seth on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 01:56 AM
@nickygee11
Just be carefull to get one that doesn't stuck to far below the bike as they can catch the road on speed bumps ECT.
I think there are several different designs and models of these things .
:cheers:
I can personally vouch for what Seth says above.  Has to be a big pothole or very high speed bump, but I managed to find one many hundreds of kilometers from home.  New sump req.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: T 24 on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 03:42 AM
I made a new bigger thread and bigger drain plug to my GS !000 G years ago, or you can use helicoil etc. thread repair kit.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: steve porter on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 07:38 AM

Not sure how to post photos on here, so will just add that if you use a hellicoil without grinding away a portion of the thread once installed you won't get full oil drainage as there is quite a cutout in the sump and only a few threads at the very bottom of the  hole that go the full 360 degrees of the hole, when I did the first oil change on mine I found that the sump had been stripped and the plug loctited or glued in, I removed the sump to hellicoil it but decided against it because of the design and ended up purchasing a new sump
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: steve porter on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 02:37 PM
Quote from: steve porter on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 07:38 AM

Not sure how to post photos on here, so will just add that if you use a hellicoil without grinding away a portion of the thread once installed you won't get full oil drainage as there is quite a cutout in the sump and only a few threads at the very bottom of the  hole that go the full 360 degrees of the hole, when I did the first oil change on mine I found that the sump had been stripped and the plug loctited or glued in, I removed the sump to hellicoil it but decided against it because of the design and ended up purchasing a new sump

(https://i.imgur.com/kJIrp2K.jpg)
there you go, as you can see  if you hellicoil it without grinding out the cutout section you will be left with a fair amount of oil in the sump
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Tony Nitrous on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 03:51 PM
Quote from: steve porter on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 07:38 AM

Not sure how to post photos on here, so will just add that if you use a hellicoil without grinding away a portion of the thread once installed you won't get full oil drainage as there is quite a cutout in the sump and only a few threads at the very bottom of the  hole that go the full 360 degrees of the hole, when I did the first oil change on mine I found that the sump had been stripped and the plug loctited or glued in, I removed the sump to hellicoil it but decided against it because of the design and ended up purchasing a new sump

Hardly an issue when the oil filter is normally left full of dirty oil anyway, and there are several areas around the motor that won't fully drain.

Oil Change... 4.2ltr
With filter..... 4.8ltr
Full overhaul...... 5.7ltr.

Whatever you put in at the next oil change, take it away from 5.7ltr and that's what sat in the oil cooler, head etc.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Andre on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 04:12 PM
Without filter change ca. 1.5 liter, with filter change 0.9 liter remain. However, with the cutout blocked I think some "sludge" collected on the sump's bottom won't get flushed out. There is a reason why it's designed that way.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: steve porter on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 04:31 PM
Quote from: Andre on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 04:12 PM
Without filter change ca. 1.5 liter, with filter change 0.9 liter remain. However, with the cutout blocked I think some "sludge" collected on the sump's bottom won't get flushed out. There is a reason why it's designed that way.
Agree, with clutch and gearbox sharing the same oil, you could end up with a fair bit of shit built up in there over time
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: KiwiCol on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 04:33 PM
I agree, it's designed that way to get the most oil out of the sump, however, I don't think there would be any sludge in there. 

The filter would take care of most on the nasties that inhabit the internal working of a petrol engine, however, if it belonged to a non caring owner who didn't change the oil till it looked like treacle, then the little bit of sludge that would be left would be a drop in the ocean of sludge engulfing the remainder of the innards. 
Short story, it doesn't matter a hell of a lot IMO.  Yes it'd be better if it were there, maybe cut / grind out a portion of the helicoil once installed, else don't fret, there's plenty of other used oil remaining round the engine.
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: nickygee11 on Thursday, 29 August 2019, 09:13 PM
Thanks again for all the feedback and suggestions, some good opportunities to learn from others experience

:clapping:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: GSXKING on Friday, 30 August 2019, 05:17 PM
I'd have to agree on the sludge sentiment. If you change the oil/filter regularly there won't ever be any (Sludge). I've read it here before, regular oil/filter changes is the key to longevity in these very well built motors. BIG UP SUZUKI.  :happy1: :smitten: :happy1: :happy1:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: KiwiCol on Friday, 30 August 2019, 05:48 PM
is that sludge sentiment or sediment?   :happy1:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: GSXKING on Friday, 30 August 2019, 05:57 PM
Bloody predictive text  :furious: :furious: :furious: :doh: :facepalm: :thumbs_down: :frustrated: :whatever:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Andre on Friday, 30 August 2019, 06:59 PM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Friday, 30 August  2019, 05:48 PM
is that sludge sentiment or sediment?   :happy1:

It is sentiment! Or something like that as I have strong emotions (on the negative end) :furious: about things that make my bike dirty outside and inside.  :furious:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: GSXKING on Friday, 30 August 2019, 07:00 PM
@KiwiCol what @Andre said  :doh:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Andre on Friday, 30 August 2019, 07:13 PM
The sentiment can go positive as well. See @Hooli as far as outside dirt ("patina") goes :stir:
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Simonic on Friday, 30 August 2019, 08:21 PM
Quote from: nickygee11 on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 01:22 AM
https://www.quickvalve.co.uk/f111_details.htm

This looks like the fella...once installed, shouldn't need to remove again. 

:grin:
I used one of these on my B12 due to a previous (un)caring owner stripping the thread. I glued it in thithreadlock and it held fast. The item itself is pretty small And only came down from the sump maybe 2cm max. Obviously the exhaust hangs much lower so there was no danger of it getting caught.
I'd certainly use one again
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: Tonythetiger on Monday, 18 November 2019, 03:12 AM
I had this problem on a '79 gs750e I had a few years ago, I drilled the hole slightly bigger and fitted a bolt to fit and no leaks, BUT it was always in my head and so I went on fleabay and bought a second hand sump for next to nothing and fitted it, problem solved and no more worrying about the next oil change or leaking although it was a chew fitting it , it was worth the hassle. Tony
Title: Re: Oil Change Without Removing Sump Plug
Post by: VladTepes on Monday, 18 November 2019, 01:58 PM
Quote from: seth on Thursday, 29 August  2019, 01:56 AM
@nickygee11
Just be carefull to get one that doesn't stuck to far below the bike as they can catch the road on speed bumps ECT.
I think there are several different designs and models of these things .
:cheers:

Given that I managed to destroy a sump on a speed bump with the FACTORY plug, there is no way in heck I'd put anything that projected further on it.