So the GSX that belonged to my dad and has been in bits since 2014 is pretty much all back together except for a few items...
Today was the moment of truth to fire it up and.... Nothing!
It's turns over fine, but doesn't start! Pulled the plugs they look damp(ish) but not soaked, I'm getting a spark, there's no error codes on the dash. The exhaust smells very faintly of fuel, but not very strong.
Whilst trying on and off for an hour or so l got a couple of decent backfires out the exhaust and couple of coughs out the airbox but that's been it.
Any ideas?
What year is it ?
as they have an imobiliser fitted from 2005 onwards
Are the clutch and side stand switches fitted and working ?
Have you checked the fuel pump filters and pressure regulator as the can also cause problems.
Do the clocks do the sweep when the ignition is turned on .
:cheers:
2003, that info would help!
I've pulled the fuel hose off and turned the ignition on, the pump is definitely working.
Clutch switch works, I've lifted the sidestand when starting just to be sure!
Clocks sweep fine.
Ok so no imobiliser to worry about .
Sounds to me like it'll be a dodgy connector somewhere if it's doing as it should I'd also replace the spark plugs even if you have a spark and check the air filter is clean.
Is thier anyone near by with a similar aged bike you could try the ecu on for instance and swopping over complete tank .
Good luck
:onya:
Thinking more after you've gone through the stuff already said your looking at possible injectors being blocked or dirty.
There's s link in the suppliers section on where to get them serviced as when mine got clogged I had simular problems .
Good luck .
:cheers:
When you say it's been in bits, just how many bits? as in was the engine disassembled? or partly? Sounds to me like a timing issue with the backfires etc.
It's not got spiders living (or were) in the fuel lines?
Are the plug leads on the right firing order.
Engine has been apart, the timing was set but maybe I'll need to revisit it.
Yes leads are on ordered 1 to 4, the HT leads are still numbered.
Are they new spark plugs mate?
Quote from: Cursed on Monday, 18 February 2019, 08:56 AM
Engine has been apart, the timing was set but maybe I'll need to revisit it.
Yes leads are on ordered 1 to 4, the HT leads are still numbered.
maybe switched the loom side of the coils? ???
Quote from: Blubber on Monday, 18 February 2019, 08:55 PM
Quote from: Cursed on Monday, 18 February 2019, 08:56 AM
Engine has been apart, the timing was set but maybe I'll need to revisit it.
Yes leads are on ordered 1 to 4, the HT leads are still numbered.
maybe switched the loom side of the coils? ???
I've checked the manual, they're definitely correct - Would have liked it if the fix was that simple!
Quote from: grog on Monday, 18 February 2019, 07:30 PM
Are they new spark plugs mate?
No but it doesnt feel like it's even really trying to start, I have a feeling fuel isn't getting past the injectors...
If it's the injectors you can have them tested and refurbed by the company in this thread
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=95.0
Has anything else been changed with the bike is a power commander added or removed or anything else.
When the bikes not starting is the First light flashing for example .
These kind if faults can be really hard to pin point so the more info you have the better help we can offer to you .
Good luck
:cheers:
Quote from: seth on Monday, 18 February 2019, 10:45 PM
If it's the injectors you can have them tested and refurbed by the company in this thread
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=95.0
Has anything else been changed with the bike is a power commander added or removed or anything else.
When the bikes not starting is the First light flashing for example .
These kind if faults can be really hard to pin point so the more info you have the better help we can offer to you .
Good luck
:cheers:
There's no error codes or FI light up at all - I sort of wish there was so I had some information in regards to what's causing the issue.
The bike has been in bits for 5 years, i've just rebuilt it. I've removed the PC just to eliminate that from being the cause of any issues.
Because it's been sat for so long i'm inclined to believe it could well be the injectors or the fuel pump teabag filter but I can't be sure.
When the fuel hose is off and I turn on the ignition the tank definitely pumps fuel but i've got no way of testing the pressure.
I've seen some information online in regards to testing injectors at home so I might have to look into that.
Also, as you've said previously the pressure regulator could cause issues so it might just be worth pulling the pump to check this and the tebag filter at the same time.
How'd ya go then? Find anything?
Only had a short amount of time to have a look last night so didnt really get to check things over too much.
Gave it another go at starting it, same thing...
Would spin over, but not start. The backfire was only happening when I let off the starter (not every time, just after a few attempts) - I'm wondering if the battery is a bit knackered, I did have a battery jump pack connected up to it but I suppose if the battery is dud the jump pack would make no difference.
The spark plugs seemed to be getting wetter now and i'm getting a stronger fuel smell from the exhaust.
Then it gets weird.... Turned off the bike, covered it up, tidied up the garage, went to bed. Had to pop into the garage this morning, open the door and it absolutely stunk of fuel, go out to find a puddle of fuel under the bike. This hose had split around the outlet from the fuel pump (is this the pressure release back into the tank from pressure regulator?):
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.suzukimidlands.co.uk%2Fmedia%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct%2Fcache%2F1%2Fimage%2F1800x%2F040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f%2F4%2F4%2F44128-42f10-0003.jpg&hash=9604dd4574f7af3f375b7e3c7a7fb5e4a8f5e7eb)
It definitely wasn't split last night when I put the bike away so i'm a bit confused with what's gone on there!
If anyone knows the ID & OD of this hose off the top of their head it would be very helpful!
I've pulled the tank off for now and that's how it'll have to stay until Wednesday (It's my wifes birthday tonight so wont be pushing my luck!) - I've got a new battery arriving today so i'll throw that in Wednesday too.
The hose you have highlighted is the low pressure gravity feed from the back of the tank to the fuel pump via the teabag filter.
Fit an inline filter where it has spilt save getting a new hose (I'm not sure of the ID and OD of this hose but is standard fuel pipe you'd get from any auto parts place).
The fuel pressure regulator releases straight back into the tank.
:onya:
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 19 February 2019, 07:06 PM
The hose you have highlighted is the low pressure gravity feed from the back of the tank to the fuel pump via the teabag filter.
Fit an inline filter where it has spilt save getting a new hose (I'm not sure of the ID and OD of this hose but is standard fuel pipe you'd get from any auto parts place).
The fuel pressure regulator releases straight back into the tank.
:onya:
Thanks Seth, your help is really appreciated on this!
No worries buddy I try to help when I can as much as I can .
This thread gives info on low pressure side extra external filter and hose sizes
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=2212.0
:cheers:
Hose fixed and cleaned the pump and tank out.
Checked the injectors today, plumbed up some cleaner to them under pressure and used a battery to put power to them to operate them.. look to be working fine, no blockage.
After going through everything today...
- Fuel pump is pumping
- Injectors aren't blocked
- Fuel is definitely getting to the injectors
I'm now not convinced I'm getting a strong enough spark, going start with some new spark plugs and see what happens.
A friend has a GSX and has offered to potentially lend me parts to try out so if the spark plugs don't work I'll borrow his coils and see if that improves anything
It might not be starting yet but you are eliminating lots of possible causes.
The coil swop is a good next step just keep going through it and I'm sure you'll get there .
:onya:
Just had a brain fart which might help...or not. Sharing is caring and the such...
The 14 has a tip over sensor.
I remember reading someone placed it upside down.... Obviously the bike would start.
Can't remember the symptoms but the outcome was the same.
Good thinking Blubber! Could well be that.
The tip over sensor it located next to the reg/rec on the front of the rear mudguard below the battery .
I had problems on my old k2 with a dodgy connector between it and the rest if the loom.
Good thinking blubber.
:cheers:
Had a similar problem yesterday with mine after 5 week lay up. Turned out to be the clutch lever switch. Much fiddling and Inox spray did the trick.
Good stuff Inox, get some of their other, Lanox, will stop future probs.
Quote from: Blubber on Tuesday, 26 February 2019, 07:00 AM
Just had a brain fart which might help...or not. Sharing is caring and the such...
The 14 has a tip over sensor.
I remember reading someone placed it upside down.... Obviously the bike would start.
Can't remember the symptoms but the outcome was the same.
they are fitted upside down for our upside down friends !! :rofl2:
New spark plugs, no change in starting!
Quote from: Blubber on Tuesday, 26 February 2019, 07:00 AM
Just had a brain fart which might help...or not. Sharing is caring and the such...
The 14 has a tip over sensor.
I remember reading someone placed it upside down.... Obviously the bike would start.
Can't remember the symptoms but the outcome was the same.
Would this not cut the starter all together?
-------------------
With the fuel hose off, when I turn the ignition on it pumps an amount of fuel out. When I turn the bike over with the hose off it doesn't seem to be pumping much, I don't know if that's to be expected but it doesn't seem right!
I have been contacted with a suggestion that it could be the o-ring being damaged in the base of the fuel pump causing these symptoms as the pressure wont build up properly - If anyone has the dimensions of the o-ring so I can get one (cheaper than Suzuki preferably!) that would be appreciated!
Few days ago I had a problem with fuel pressure regulator rubber seal, it was leaking and fuel pressure was too low for proper engine running (loss of power, jerking in low rpms). Seal dimensions: OD 14mm, ID 8mm, thickness 3mm. Both seals, on pressure regulator and pump to filter housing are same dimensions. :cheers:
Just out of curiosity pull the air filter and then see if it starts ?..... a few on here may remember i had similar problems last year ( infact exactly the same issues ) and i went through the entire bike , and thats what it turned out to be it was an after market filter that just didnt give the engine enough air to breath .
Quote from: shanered6 on Tuesday, 05 March 2019, 05:34 PM
Just out of curiosity pull the air filter and then see if it starts ?..... a few on here may remember i had similar problems last year ( infact exactly the same issues ) and i went through the entire bike , and thats what it turned out to be it was an after market filter that just didnt give the engine enough air to breath .
Will give this a go 👍
Quote from: GSX3 on Tuesday, 26 February 2019, 04:08 PM
Had a similar problem yesterday with mine after 5 week lay up. Turned out to be the clutch lever switch. Much fiddling and Inox spray did the trick.
Would this not cut the ignition all together, stopping it from turning over?
Cursed, give it a spray of carby cleaner in air filter. Easiest way to determine if a fuel prob. If it starts for a few seconds its fuel, if not another prob. Do that first. Lets know.
Mate, to check spark you need HEI tester. ive had mine over 20 yrs, just shorting to earth is not good enough, must be checked with HEI. Ive seen many motors not starting, spark just tested to ground, looks ok, motor not start. Check with HEI, no spark. Would be very unusual for both coils to fail, impossible, you never know. https://easyautodiagnostics.com/misc-index/hei-spark-tester
Quote from: Cursed on Wednesday, 06 March 2019, 06:26 PM
Quote from: GSX3 on Tuesday, 26 February 2019, 04:08 PM
Had a similar problem yesterday with mine after 5 week lay up. Turned out to be the clutch lever switch. Much fiddling and Inox spray did the trick.
[/quote
Would this not cut the ignition all together, stopping it from turning over?
Engine turned over as normal.
I managed to start the engine but ran like a bag of nails missing, banging etc, and would not idle. Pulling the clutch in cut the engine. Twist the throttle would restart as if on 2 cylinder.
Worth spraying the switch. Exercised the lever and all was good. Had to reset idle as I had wound it in to try to keep it running. Also did the sidestand switch after the event.
Am very interested to hear how you get on. Bruce
Now.. Part of me didn't want to reply to this but here goes....
Had the pump apart (multiple times), cleaned (multiple times) and seals replaced
Washed the tank out
FI system came apart, cleaned and checked
Checked the clutch switch
Checked the side stand switch
Pulled the air filter entirely
Checked for spark
Re-did all the HT lead connections
New spark plugs
Checked fuses
Checked wiring
Checked resistance in all the sensors
No joy..
:frustrated:
However... It's working now :boogie:
The fault
Quote from: Cursed on Monday, 18 February 2019, 09:08 PM
Quote from: Blubber on Monday, 18 February 2019, 08:55 PM
Quote from: Cursed on Monday, 18 February 2019, 08:56 AM
Engine has been apart, the timing was set but maybe I'll need to revisit it.
Yes leads are on ordered 1 to 4, the HT leads are still numbered.
maybe switched the loom side of the coils? ???
I've checked the manual, they're definitely correct - Would have liked it if the fix was that simple!
I can't f**king read properly.. I checked the manual, except I read it wrong..
@Blubber had it right all along :rofl2:
Cheers for your help guys, I feel like a right tit.. These things happen though I suppose, got to laugh or i'd be crying :rolleyes:
On the plus side, it's had a real going over now!
Time to trash the tits out of it ;)
Don't fall off :rofl2:
Good to got it sorted. And shared the fault.
Did you take a picture of the correct connections for future reference or to help others?
Quote from: Blubber on Tuesday, 19 March 2019, 01:24 AM
Time to trash the tits out of it ;)
Don't fall off :rofl2:
Good to got it sorted. And shared the fault.
Did you take a picture of the correct connections for future reference or to help others?
I didn't, but that's a good idea. I've got to have the tank off again shortly.. I'll take a pic :onya:
Got my tits in a tangle after cleaning the bike. Tried looking for problems caused by water......gave up.
Then asked the panel for their help before some asked if l had knocked the kill switch. :facepalm:
Great she's sorted :clapping:
:rofl2: :rofl2: we've all done it at some point! Glad its sorted now :cheers:
:lol: :lol:
Nice fix. I've never done anything stupid like fill an engine with oil before fitting the sump plug, or trying to start a car without putting the dizzycap back...
No never done anything stupid. :smile2: 47 years fixing cars, nothing ever goes wrong. Steering drag link upside down, oil filter change but old o ring still stuck to housing, messy. Rebuilt an old H20 Nissan motor, at least 3 hrs to fit it back in to a van. Found the oil pick up still sitting on bench. Did up a kombi diff, fitted crown wheel wrong way round, 4 reverse and 1 forward gear. Rebuilt 308 Holden V8, timing chain fitted, lined up marks, no prob except i had motor upside down on engine stand. So many links on rhs, i had it on lhs. This not doing my reputation much good. Im usually good but these few stories from a long career. I once made the news for my mistake. Did up gearbox on Leyland Tiger truck. Around 11 or 12 detent balls in it. I left 1 out. Gearbox locked up on Story Bridge approach in Brisbane. Traffic chaos for 4 hours. Even my parents saw me on news trying to get truck moving. Shit happens. Sorry to bore you blokes.