Just wondering what are the easiest and cheapest way to improve performance without getting a power commander? Also whilst on the topic of performance, my K5 model seems to hesitate or stutter is a better way of describing it as if it doesn't get fuel for a split second when I accelerate. Doesn't seem to matter what gear or what RPM etc It's at and sometimes accelerates just fine. I have asked about this before on another post and was told to check throttle cables which seem to be fine and also could be the tea bag filter that's connected to the fuel pump.
Haven't worked on a fuel injected bike before and with it costing me 4.5k for the bike I don't feel as confident working on it as I did my 900 quid bandit 600 especially as the 14 is in really good condition as it only had 6700 odd miles on the clock when I brought it and the owner I brought it off only did 6 miles on it this year and that was just to the MOT test and back. Would like a few more opinions and suggestions before I go taking of the fuel tank and potentially ruin the nice shiny paint work. Could spark plugs be the problem?
Could be through lack of use. I'd run a couple of tankfulls of high octane (98 or the like) & see how it is after that. Take it for a couple of long hot rides, 200-300k runs to use the high octane.
Your pretty limited on improvements without using a PC111.
Anyone serious about getting the bike to run its best and making a few more ponys will be looking at a full system, Yoshi or Akro, PAIR blanks to get it running clean and a true A/F reading, and some dyno time with a PC111. Not cheap, but anything less is going to have little effect other than a placebo effect from just loud cans.
To me the next stage after that would be cams. I wouldn't bother with any airfilter changes.
If I had a stock 14 that would be my route. Standard bikes aren't that bad, but there's no $50 fix to getting great improvements IMO.
As Col says, I wouldn't expect a bike to be running its best if its spend a lot of time sat around.
I'd be giving it a service, fresh premium fuel and giving it some use before I got too concerned about its health or fault finding.
Power commander is not necessary. I have over 200hp in my 14 and I dont have power commander.
just a wee turbo thingy though . . . :rofl2:
Doesn't have to be a PC111 but I'd consider getting a decent fuel map, PC3 / 5 / ECU flash etc, high on my list.
I have aftermarket cans on both my B-King and Hayabusa. Both were fine running sock maps / stock ECU but there was no performance gains. My 14 with a full system runs a lot stronger and crisper than a standard bike but running it with / without its well mapped PC111 is very noticeable.
Quote from: T 24 on Monday, 19 June 2017, 04:19 AM
Power commander is not necessary. I have over 200hp in my 14 and I dont have power commander.
@T 24Jussi, I assume you have ECU remapped for operating with turbo? Or something else?
Beauty of Dynojet Power Commander - it's quite universal, quite easy to manage tool. I think every dyno tuner know how to use and setup it. In case of ECU fine tuning, it's more complicated - just starting from hardware ending tuner skill's.
btw - Power Commander III is not anymore in production. PCV 20-056 is replacing it now for GSX1400.
What are the downsides to using a Power Commander besides the cost? I assume it drinks more fuel for starters, does it lessen the life of the engine and does HP and Torque peak at a higher RPM than standard, I assume it does?
no really any down sides
it helps smooth out fueling as factory maps have anomalies to pass emissions and noise limits
i found on my k2 with a pc3 it used much less fuel and once fitted sorted out the akroprovic fuelling.
on my k6 with a pc3 it used slightly more fuel with a akroprovic pipe untill i had it re mapped after fitting the yoshi cams and pod filters now it uses no more than the wifes totally standard k6.
Quote from: Michael Whitney on Monday, 19 June 2017, 09:05 AM
What are the downsides to using a Power Commander besides the cost? I assume it drinks more fuel for starters, does it lessen the life of the engine and does HP and Torque peak at a higher RPM than standard, I assume it does?
Not at all. A Power Commander with custom Dyno map has the fuelling bang on for your bike so in most cases you actually get better fuel economy and the bike runs and pulls smoother through the entire power curve. It doesn't give you any more power if that's what you think though, it just sorts out the fuelling, measuring it every 250 revs to give the exact amount of fuel.
The best way to think of it is the PC doesn't do anything.
It's really only as good or as bad as the map the dyno operator puts into it.
Many brand new bikes aren't at their best (the original GSX-S1000 was quite bad on its release). Manufacturers can't set them up how they would like, they must meet their immision / pollution / noise specs. It's not unusual for manufacturers to design in flat or weak spots at the rev's / gear that bikes are tested in.
Any mods such as pipes, filters, etc is only going to change it again.
Power Commander's aren't just about "go faster", they are about setting your bikes fuel system to run how it should be. Either how Suzuki would have wanted it, or at its best with your mods.
I've seen one bike, after adding a PC111 lose a couple of horsepower. The owner had spent plenty of money to lose power! The reality was the bike was running weak top end, and the remap made it fuel much safer, and it gained more mid range.
Remapping is a good time to bin or blank the PAIR system too, as it gives the dyno sniffer a false reading if left alone.
Trackday rider training, modify yourself, that's where you will find faster times and you can take it to any bike you ride thereafter.
Think I'll look into getting a power command if it improves fuel economy thought only know of one place near me that has a motorcycle dyno and dunno if I'd trust them to do a decent job. Think I'm gonna check the spark plugs first of all and if need be replace them as manual says to inspect every 6k miles I believe and it's done 7k so maybe needs the gaps checking. Just not so confident in taking the tank of this bike as I was with my bandit as bandit didn't cost as much and paint work wasn't great anyway. Plus only two fuel lines to disconnect, if I'm not mistaken on the GSX you'd have the fuel line to the injectors, fuel pump wires, fuel level sensor wires and think that's it.
I did try to take out number one spark plug without removing the tank as I could do that on bandit but tank is closer to engine on the gsx so couldn't get tool in there to undo the spark plug. Later on in the evening I decided to go out on it and was riding down the road and thought "this is sounding a bit thumpy than usual" and then I realized that I had forgotten to put the spark plug cap back on :doh: Surprised it started, bandit wouldn't have started if I had the spark plug cap off number 1 cylinder.
Taking the tank off is dead easy Michael:
- undo both side panels and remove
- undo the plug undo the rear two bolts
- undo the two rear bolts
- lift rear of tank up and sit it on a roll of packing tape
- on the nearside, push in the two clips holding the petrol pipe onto the injector rail. This can be a bit tight at first so gently roll it whilst gently pulling backwards towards the seat. Also a good idea to have some paper towel underneath, as it will drip!
- pull tank back gently whilst holding at back and front. You'll find it will also pull a long rubber pipe out from the offside rear (which will be attached to the tank), that's quite normal.
- put tank down safely on a workmate or similar to protect.
Re-fitting is almost the reverse, the difference is that you have to re-locate the rubber pipe on the offside - this runs down the frame tube and exits in the gap between the swing arm and frame
Simples :)
As Barmy said. Notice also that you may want to have your tank as empty as possible, it is heavy when full. Another point to consider: you don't want your fuel pump to build pressure and then disconnect the fuel line between throttle body and tank. I've been there and I got plenty of fuel all over the bike and yard! You can stabilize the pressure by opening the fuel cap for a short moment before disconnecting the line. Luckily I did not get any fuel on my face/eyes which then reminds me to always wear goggles and other protective gear when working on the bike. :)
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 21 June 2017, 11:35 PM
Taking the tank off is dead easy Michael:
- undo both side panels and remove
- undo the plug undo the rear two bolts
- undo the two rear bolts
- lift rear of tank up and sit it on a roll of packing tape
- on the nearside, push in the two clips holding the petrol pipe onto the injector rail. This can be a bit tight at first so gently roll it whilst gently pulling backwards towards the seat. Also a good idea to have some paper towel underneath, as it will drip!
- pull tank back gently whilst holding at back and front. You'll find it will also pull a long rubber pipe out from the offside rear (which will be attached to the tank), that's quite normal.
- put tank down safely on a workmate or similar to protect.
Re-fitting is almost the reverse, the difference is that you have to re-locate the rubber pipe on the offside - this runs down the frame tube and exits in the gap between the swing arm and frame
Simples :)
Put it on a workmate ? may have to ask them first I would think !! :smile2:
No need for putting it on a workmate or disconnecting the petrol pipe.
I have done it the following way:
- take the seat off and place a blanket where it was
- remove both side panels
- undo the plug under the rear two bolts
- undo the two rear bolts
- stand on left side of bike
- lift rear of tank up and pull it toward the rear
- turn the tank 180 degrees clockwise
- set it on the blanket
tank sits very stable there
So disconnect the fuel line from the injector rail rather than the tank? What about disconcerting the wires for the fuel pump etc?
Quote from: Michael Whitney on Thursday, 22 June 2017, 03:22 AM
So disconnect the fuel line from the injector rail rather than the tank?
Yes. Where it joins the fuel rail, you'll find 2 little clips you push in on the side of the fuel line, keep those pushed in as you work it back off the fuel rail
Quote from: Michael Whitney on Thursday, 22 June 2017, 03:22 AM
What about disconcerting the wires for the fuel pump etc?
That plug I mentioned that runs under the 2 wires at the back of the tank? That's it. Undo that plug and you've disconnected the fuel pump etc
The Suzuki service manual can be found here if you haven't found it already, it has pictures on how to take your tank off but it's pretty well the way everyone described - http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?action=downloads;cat=6
Quote from: Tony Nitrous on Monday, 19 June 2017, 03:54 AMYour pretty limited on improvements without using a PC111.
Anyone serious about getting the bike to run its best and making a few more ponys will be looking at a full system, Yoshi or Akro, PAIR blanks to get it running clean and a true A/F reading, and some dyno time with a PC111. Not cheap, but anything less is going to have little effect other than a placebo effect from just loud cans.
To me the next stage after that would be cams. I wouldn't bother with any airfilter changes.
If I had a stock 14 that would be my route. Standard bikes aren't that bad, but there's no $50 fix to getting great improvements IMO.
I know this is an old thread, but while looking for answers to similar questions on the topic of mods to obtain smooth running on my k7, I have to say this answer was exactly what I needed to see. Well said Tony Nitrous 👌
Quote from: FlyWheel on Saturday, 19 October 2024, 05:21 AMQuote from: Tony Nitrous on Monday, 19 June 2017, 03:54 AMYour pretty limited on improvements without using a PC111.
Anyone serious about getting the bike to run its best and making a few more ponys will be looking at a full system, Yoshi or Akro, PAIR blanks to get it running clean and a true A/F reading, and some dyno time with a PC111. Not cheap, but anything less is going to have little effect other than a placebo effect from just loud cans.
To me the next stage after that would be cams. I wouldn't bother with any airfilter changes.
If I had a stock 14 that would be my route. Standard bikes aren't that bad, but there's no $50 fix to getting great improvements IMO.
I know this is an old thread, but while looking for answers to similar questions on the topic of mods to obtain smooth running on my k7, I have to say this answer was exactly what I needed to see. Well said Tony Nitrous 👌
Firstly make sure its fully serviced and the tps/stps are set up properly and the throttle bodies are balanced .
Even smoother running can be achieved by
Removing the pairs system completely (very straightforward)
Adding a 4° ignition advancer or modifying the ignition back plate to give the same results
Instructions on both are in the "how to section"
A full free flowing exhaust system with a power commander and set upon a dyno will give some more power 10% but also improve fuel economy.
After that things get interesting and unlock even more power .
Good luck
Well said Seth, pretty much perfect explanation.A bit of maintenance, a few adjustments, turn the throttle👍