In future oil changes, I will drain the oil cooler as well by disconnecting the lower connections of the oil cooler hoses. It makes no sense to leave one liter of used oil in the system. Additional cost would be one liter oil and 2.50 € for the two o-rings.
Oil used will be "semi-synthetic" Motul 5000 10W-40 and original oil filter.
Inspiration from a user on facebook, Enrico Barbetti (Suzuki GSX 1400 group).
Sounds fair enough, bit more work than most of us on here go to, but each to their own. Just a point to remember, Suzuki aluminium has the strength & consistency of firm putty, so be very careful doing up those oil cooler bolts - use of a good torque wrench is essential.
Some folk have even stripped the sump bolt using a torque wrench set to the proper setting.
Thank you for the heads up. Much appreciated!
I have a bag of O-rings as it makes getting the filter out easier with the Yoshi full system.
Something I thought about, but never got around too, was a new oil line with a different fitting (thread on fitting to an adapter plate) so I didn't need to touch the bolts into the cases each time.,
Tony, that is an intriguing idea.
Do you put copper paste on the bolts or do they come out easy without ?
Whilst it is probably the best thing to do; most bikes are getting over 200000 kms with just regular oil changes.
I'm not sure that it is worth the effort.
For a retired perfectionist with close to no responsibilities it is well worth the effort. Before I go to sleep, I can envision the parts (I hopefully never see in reality) sparkle :happy1:
I never ever though about that, so I went and had a look just now to see if any part of the oil cooler hoses are below the drain plug, they aren't. Now I'm NO trained mechanic, but common sense says to me that if the oil is hot when you remove the drain plug 99.9% of the oil should drain out - correct?
Quote from: Gra Har on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 10:22 AM
I never ever though about that, so I went and had a look just now to see if any part of the oil cooler hoses are below the drain plug, they aren't. Now I'm trained mechanic, but common sense says to me that if the oil is hot when you remove the drain plug 99.9% of the oil should drain out - correct?
Suzuki use the oil as a cooler for the engine as well as lube. There is a valve that opens once a certain temp is reached, oil flows through the cooler, once engine internal temp cools, the valve closes again. (trapping the oil in) You'd have to have the engine bloody hot to hold that valve open whilst doing a change, even then, I reckon it'd close part way through the change.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 10:27 AM
Quote from: Gra Har on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 10:22 AM
I never ever though about that, so I went and had a look just now to see if any part of the oil cooler hoses are below the drain plug, they aren't. Now I'm NO trained mechanic, but common sense says to me that if the oil is hot when you remove the drain plug 99.9% of the oil should drain out - correct?
Suzuki use the oil as a cooler for the engine as well as lube. There is a valve that opens once a certain temp is reached, oil flows through the cooler, once engine internal temp cools, the valve closes again. (trapping the oil in) You'd have to have the engine bloody hot to hold that valve open whilst doing a change, even then, I reckon it'd close part way through the change.
I should have said "NO trained mechanic" have made the changes, sorry gang. I do change the oil when the engine is very hot, so, I'm hoping that valve stays open, there was a lot of oil come out on the last oil change I did. I didn't measure it, should have though, but saw no sense in it as I always fill up to the full mark in the sight glass on the centre stand, then start bike, run until hot, check for leaks, let cool, drop onto side stand, hold bike upright and topup to full mark again - that all make sense?
Quote from: Andre on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 10:06 AM
Tony, that is an intriguing idea.
I only considered it because I'd rather remove an oil line than a down pipe
when doing oil changes with the Yoshi system, but the benefit of draining the
cooler makes it more appealing.
To be honest, I haven't really looked into it,
but this was the sort of fitting I had in mind....
(The L shape fittings in centre of pic the hose can be removed from
without touching the engine cases)
(https://s30.postimg.org/bm7m1g7ld/image.jpg)
(https://postimage.io/app.php)
@Tony Nitrous I just looked (eye balled) at my oil cooler. An adapter plate is not needed. Just 4 of the L-shaped fittings. Two go on the engine case and 2 on the oil cooler.
The fittings and hoses can be had at http://auto.helperformance.com/hose-and-fittings
Same place that sells what is in the picture you posted.
Hoses can be had in "silver" or black.
@Gra Har When I did the oil change with filter, I added exactly 4.8 liters. I too wondered where the 0.9 liters were. Looked at the oil cooler and thought that the oil in there should drain due to its pipes position on the case.
Thanks to
@KiwiCol for explaining why the oil in the cooler does not drain.
Does anyone know how hot the engine has to get for that valve to open? On wifey's GSXR600 when I do oil change, I warm up until the radiator fan comes on, forget what temp that is now, 86 I think. When I warmed the GSX14 up to do the oil change the fan never comes on at the oil cooler, I can say the engine was plenty warm enough to drop the oil out.
With no engine temp gauge one has no idea how hot the engine is. I guess city riding would have the engine running at much higher temps than country escapes. On the VFR800 I had for 9 years the fan never came on until 104degrees and would drop rapidly to 96 before it went off. That bike was a beauty, I did 150,000km on it untouched, except for the regular fluid and filter changes.
As to the valve opening temperature I don't know. The oil cooler fan is set to come on by 110 degree celsius. The SACS (Suzuki Advanced Cooling System) is very efficient.
You will be hard pressed to get the fan to come on. Try a hot day with stop and go traffic or let it idle for a long time.
Quote from: Andre on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 03:22 AM
In future oil changes, I will drain the oil cooler as well by disconnecting the lower connections of the oil cooler hoses. It makes no sense to leave one liter of used oil in the system. Additional cost would be one liter oil and 2.50 € for the two o-rings.
Oil used will be "semi-synthetic" Motul 5000 10W-40 and original oil filter.
Inspiration from a user on facebook, Enrico Barbetti (Suzuki GSX 1400 group).
We have been using that oil in all our bikes since I owned the VFR back in 2002, used belray oil in both my Guzzis back in the 1997-2002
I didn't know that it existed already in 2002. Read a test (2013) in a german motorcycle magazine. Ranked 2nd only to a full synthetic oil. I get it for 30€ for 4 liter while the full synthetic is almost twice that much.
Quote from: Andre on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 10:18 AM
For a retired perfectionist with close to no responsibilities it is well worth the effort. Before I go to sleep, I can envision the parts (I hopefully never see in reality) sparkle :happy1:
"retired perfectionist" - just like me!!!!!
I used to change my oil every 1500 miles no filter every 3000 miles. It was never that dirty but so what. As such it didn't really matter whether there was oil left in the cooler.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 21 May 2017, 12:35 AM
"retired perfectionist" - just like me!!!!!
I used to change my oil every 1500 miles no filter every 3000 miles. It was never that dirty but so what. As such it didn't really matter whether there was oil left in the cooler.
What did you do with the oil? Sell it as new or use it in the salad dressing? :twisted:
I had the fortune to work with lots of perfectionists, sometimes up to 50% of the work group. Was lots of fun for me, not always so for the other 50% I reckon. :whatever: It was very beneficial for our clients.
Andre like you I love working with perfectionists, for me there are only two results for a job, done or not done, but the thing I love is that with perfectionists you always learn something as to how you can improve or do something better.
As for my old oil - my lawn mower also got an oil change the rest was re-cycled. As an engineer, I do believe in things running like clockwork, so to me keeping the inside of an engine as clean as I could was very important - hence also why my cars and bikes also run on the best fuel I can find.
And anyway......it's a hobby!!!!
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 21 May 2017, 02:48 AM
And anyway......it's a hobby!!!!
Exactly!!! I know guys who spent more on their bicycles than we do on our 14s. My dad has 2 bicycles. His newest one was exactly as much as my 14. He is 80. He rides almost everyday. Today it was 130 km. After every ride he thoroughly cleans the chain.
As to the learning aspect when working with perfectionists, I was going to mention that as well, but thought I wrote enough already... and I had to go back to work on my bike :cheers:
Just had a look at container and I am using motul 5100
Motul has a very well deserved name. not sure its price is deserved. with my choice im sure my motor will last as well as any. perfectionist, quite often but sometimes not. no one is perfect. if you dont stuff up, you dont find a way to fix it. :grin: :grin:
The question of oil is related to religion :) I'm using Motul in all my vehicle.
For 14 I use 7100. Is it worth it? I'd like to believe it's better for the engine. And regarding the price - "I have a guy" who's run a oil selling internet shop, and he brings me all oil (cars and bike) home on call, with very nice price.
For example 4l of Motul 7100 I pay less than 36€... There is cheaper oil, but as it was sad - IT'S A HOBBY :boogie:
You are right, nobody is perfect. Perfectionist does not denote being perfect and they don't think they are perfect. It is a character trait - striving for perfection.
My friendly Suzuki service guy would agree with you. He says that it doesn't matter which oil brand you use. Two identical engines would run 50k just as well with brand A or B. Doesn't see a difference in mineral vs. semi-synthetic vs. full-synthetic. With mineral you get some deposits in the engine, but they are in areas that are not significant - just a cosmetic thing, unless you change from mineral to synthetic. The synthetic loosens the crud which then can cause problems with the clutch.
I still choose the Motul 5000. Want to get 500k out of the engine and I believe that there is a difference. It is a very clean oil. Is it worth the extra money? For me it is.
Quote from: Andre on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 06:17 PM
@Tony Nitrous
I just looked (eye balled) at my oil cooler. An adapter plate is not needed. Just 4 of the L-shaped fittings. Two go on the engine case and 2 on the oil cooler.
The fittings and hoses can be had at http://auto.helperformance.com/hose-and-fittings
Same place that sells what is in the picture you posted.
Hoses can be had in "silver" or black.
Well, had a look at the link again. No oil hoses to be had there. I will give Hel a call and see if they sell me the L-pieces and hoses without the cooler.
@Tony Nitrous Have contacted the german rep for Hel. He believes that HEL will sell the hoses (decided on the braided black nylon cotton) and L-Pieces separately. It may take a while before HEL answers, as they currently have vacation time.
I eye-ball-measured the required length of the hoses, should be about 53 cm. Will do a more exact measurement before ordering.
There is an unused threaded holder in the center of the lower rear edge of the cooler where the flexible lines can be fastened.
Quote from: Andre on Thursday, 01 June 2017, 07:16 PM
@Tony Nitrous
Have contacted the german rep for Hel. He believes that HEL will sell the hoses (decided on the braided black nylon cotton) and L-Pieces separately. It may take a while before HEL answers, as they currently have vacation time.
I eye-ball-measured the required length of the hoses, should be about 53 cm. Will do a more exact measurement before ordering.
There is an unused threaded holder in the center of the lower rear edge of the cooler where the flexible lines can be fastened.
That's very interesting.
Thanks Andre.
Quote from: Andre on Saturday, 20 May 2017, 08:50 PM
The oil cooler fan is set to come on by 110 degree celsius.
110ºC or 120ºC ? I´ve read, don´t know where, it starts to run at 120ºC. Don´t know when it shuts down. Anybody knows ?
I'm not home but when i do I'll list the parts/site where you can get all the parts .
torques i think but will need to check the bike
also try simon who's here from just bandits as they do some kits tho not sure about oil cooler ones
and finally earl's used to do a kit.
i would use any kit on a standard oil cooler tho as the journals aren't stronge enough .
Motorcycle oil, if its not a supersport spinning at up to 13000 revs and manufacture says semi. Use 10-40 car oil. Same shit different label. Never had a problem. Frequent changes are Important to avoid the shearing effect.
Quote from: Jeykey on Wednesday, 14 June 2017, 02:51 AM
110ºC or 120ºC ? I´ve read, don´t know where, it starts to run at 120ºC. Don´t know when it shuts down. Anybody knows ?
According to GSX1400 service manual:
Cooling fan thermo-switch operating temperature
Standard:
(OFF→ON): Approx. 120°C (248°F)
(ON→OFF): Approx. 108°C (226°F)
Yep, got ya ! :clapping:
I think your wasting your time, you won't get a litre out of the cooler. I had to disconnect mine to replace the o rings. And not much came out. Besides theres a litre sat in the head that you will never get out. I think your better off changing the oil more frequently or if money is not a issue and you want to be super sure flush it with some cheap 10/40.
Just saying