Does a 4 into 1 pipe sound better?

[Hooli]

You can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).

It's likely to be an issue causing it. Sensor wise in order of how much (I think, I know the oil temp does the most) they affect the fueling I'd look at the oil temp, intake air temp, MAP & external air pressure. I'd expect a failed MAP sensor to give running issues at lower speeds though.

Oddly enough a partly blocked fuel filter (normally the high pressure one) can give the appearance of rich running. It causes a drop in the pressure to the fuel rail, which means the spray pattern from the injectors is wrong & the fuel doesn't fully atomise. because of that the mixture doesn't burn as well & you'll need more throttle for the same power output resulting in poorer economy and get blackened plugs from the partially unburnt mixture. Also running a higher throttle opening for the same revs/power gives a lower MAP reading causing longer injector timings to be run by the ECU so it's dumping even more fuel in as it's what should be an accelerating situation from the readings it sees (ECUs don't see the fuel pressure on these bikes so can't allow for it like later stuff).

[MickyJB]

""""
4.64 vs. 9.19 liter on consecutive days  What was different? Maybe your fingers slipped when entering the values? Filled tank at very different levels? Never seen values like that before."""

One was a short trip and top up, the higher number was after I did the hole mod in the filler neck. Tank took more fuel than it ever has. 

[MickyJB]

You can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).

It's likely to be an issue causing it. Sensor wise in order of how much (I think, I know the oil temp does the most) they affect the fueling I'd look at the oil temp, intake air temp, MAP & intake pressure. I'd expect a failed MAP sensor to give running issues at lower speeds though.

Oddly enough a partly blocked fuel filter (normally the high pressure one) can give the appearance of rich running. It causes a drop in the pressure to the fuel rail, which means the spray pattern from the injectors is wrong & the fuel doesn't fully atomise. because of that the mixture doesn't burn as well & you'll need more throttle for the same power output resulting in poorer economy and get blackened plugs from the partially unburnt mixture. Also running a higher throttle opening for the same revs/power gives a lower MAP reading causing longer injector timings to be run by the ECU so it's dumping even more fuel in as it's what should be an accelerating situation from the readings it sees (ECUs don't see the fuel pressure on these bikes so can't allow for it like later stuff).

Mine is a 2008 model

Fuel filter has been modded and high pressure in line filter fitted, no change in economy from before or after. I do ride quickly and the economy hasn't changed in 15000klms I've ridden it. I know a couple of Bike shops that specialise in tunes & dyno set ups, towards the end of the year I'll get it checked out.

[grog]

Micky, your fuel figures vary lots. Ride hard, ride soft, not much difference on mine. Something not quite right. My gauge flashes around 300k every time, means 6 litres left. At least 400 tank full.

[Kiwifruit]

Grog is that 6 litres when both start to flash ?
And have you done the breather hole mod ?

[grog]

Only first Col. Have extra hole in tank. Have done just over 430 k tank, was 2 up , not conserving, just normal. 

[KiwiCol]

I agree (it's in the handbook somewhere from memory) 6L left & last bar begins to flash, 1.75L left & the fuel symbol & the last bar begin to flash.

On first flashing symbol I have about 100k range left, once both start flashing I have about 29k-30k left till I'm pushing it. I very rarely let it get to both flashing.

[Andre]

You can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).

You can adjust the fueling starting with K2. Done it myself (K2). First had the dealer do it. As I was not satisfied with the result, I did it myself. Used the SI Adjuster from https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/

It's a rudimentary adjustment(s) but certainly sufficient in many cases. Results of bi-yearly emissions-test showed a very clean running engine. Way too clean for my taste. Explained the slight bucking in low rpm-range. Adjusted the FI till the bucking disappeared. Went to emissions test station and the values were where I want them in that rpm-range. My explanation for the "too efficient": Ignition advancement and taking out the limiting in the lower gears.

Upper ranges can be adjusted as well, but then a dyno (or an AFR-meter on the bike) is needed. Something I would do if changing exhaust/air filter (which I won't). I'll probably do that anyway (AFR-meter) without changing exhaust/filter.

Using the above tool for adjusting the FI in the lower ranges is imo superior to the usual dyno based FI adjustments as I have yet to see/hear it being done with a focus on the low ranges. Maybe I get this wrong but from what I have gathered is that the dyno has a difficult time with low ranges. Have yet to see a dyno diagram that shows anything below 2500 rpm.

I would have gone the power commander route but I don't do stuff  that is glaringly visible for officials to identify as illegal.

[Hooli]

You can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).

You can adjust the fueling starting with K2. Done it myself (K2). First had the dealer do it. As I was not satisfied with the result, I did it myself. Used the SI Adjuster from https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/

It's a rudimentary adjustment(s) but certainly sufficient in many cases. Results of bi-yearly emissions-test showed a very clean running engine. Way too clean for my taste. Explained the slight bucking in low rpm-range. Adjusted the FI till the bucking disappeared. Went to emissions test station and the values were where I want them in that rpm-range. My explanation for the "too efficient": Ignition advancement and taking out the limiting in the lower gears.

Upper ranges can be adjusted as well, but then a dyno (or an AFR-meter on the bike) is needed. Something I would do if changing exhaust/air filter (which I won't). I'll probably do that anyway (AFR-meter) without changing exhaust/filter.

Using the above tool for adjusting the FI in the lower ranges is imo superior to the usual dyno based FI adjustments as I have yet to see/hear it being done with a focus on the low ranges. Maybe I get this wrong but from what I have gathered is that the dyno has a difficult time with low ranges. Have yet to see a dyno diagram that shows anything below 2500 rpm.

I would have gone the power commander route but I don't do stuff  that is glaringly visible for officials to identify as illegal.

You're misunderstanding my point Andre, we're agreeing really.

You can't adjust the FI without extra kit. I was trying to say it's not like carbs where you can and are expected tweak a mixture screw if needed, it's not designed to adjusted so you have to modify it's fueling tables..

That adjuster you mention sounds like the Yoshi box people used years ago too, I bet it does exactly the same thing.

[Andre]

It does what the yoshi box does. Imo it acts kinda like the mixture screws on carbs. I used feel (eyes, ears, nose) and how it rides as guides and CO-measurement to confirm that it is where I want it and for it to pass official emissions test. Which it does; as the limit is very genourous for the E2-class of bikes. The limit allowed would definitively be to rich for this engine.

[MickyJB]

Micky, your fuel figures vary lots. Ride hard, ride soft, not much difference on mine. Something not quite right. My gauge flashes around 300k every time, means 6 litres left. At least 400 tank full.

I'm going for a 400k ride on Saturday, I'll fill it up to max before I leave and see how many K's I get. We are going away with our Van soon so when we're back I'll get it put on a dyno and get it sorted. 🙏

[grog]

Back in mid 80s Nissan RB30 came out. Beautiful multi point motor. Its ecu has an access hole with red& green led and screw adjuster. You could adjust fuelling by turning the screw. Both lights flashing equally perfect stoichio, cant remember which colour but either flashing faster meant rich or lean. Next model didnt have the adjuster, i guess the tune shops weren't selling any gadgets to adjust. So my thinking is any ecu, car, bike, couldve still had that adjuster. How easy would it be. The led were also fault code display. Turn screw fully clockwise, leds flashed codes which were listed in manual, if any faults.

[Hooli]

Back in mid 80s Nissan RB30 came out. Beautiful multi point motor. Its ecu has an access hole with red& green led and screw adjuster. You could adjust fuelling by turning the screw. Both lights flashing equally perfect stoichio, cant remember which colour but either flashing faster meant rich or lean. Next model didnt have the adjuster, i guess the tune shops weren't selling any gadgets to adjust. So my thinking is any ecu, car, bike, couldve still had that adjuster. How easy would it be. The led were also fault code display. Turn screw fully clockwise, leds flashed codes which were listed in manual, if any faults.

There's no need for it on a properly setup ECU though is there Grog. They all run closed loop so monitor their own fuelling from the O2 sensors & self adjust to stay at the target range. You only get issues when the target range is wrong for the sake of passing emissions standards etc.

[grog]

Correct Hooli, just thought id mention it, fairly unique way.

[Hooli]

Your description did remind me of the old mechanical injection on Fords (think Merc used it too) with the long allen key to adjust the mixture by the spring loaded flap, was it K-jettronic?