Converting to radial capilers

[SpongeBob]

@SpongeBob gold fork legs look awesome, as does the rest of the gear in the pic. Anymore modifications to show us 

@GSXKING
Many thanks! "gold" coating on forks is actually TiN coating, which hopefully should provide a harder surface than chrome; this is one of the main goal... in addition, I agree, to aesthetics

Here are some pics --  the bike is not as clean as what can be seen around here, but at 110K+ Km, and being used relatively often, I guess that could be worse

among (visible) mods: Brembo radial MCs (to be consistent with calipers), stiffer/lifted rearsets with reversed shift (and quickshifter), lower bars & slightly modded clocks, a bit 'lightened' here and there, etc.

[KiwiCol]

Very smart indeed Spongebob! 

[grog]

Spongey, one of the best ive seen. Truly beautiful. Did you use stock brakes? I mean how much diff with your conversion? Been going to change front brakes to radials for ages, just havent got there, i will.

[GSXKING]

  Top job @SpongeBob I really like the look. May I offer an opinion ! Put some white paint on it, to make it ULTRA FAST @KiwiCol would agree 

[BlueDragon]

Top job @SpongeBob I really like the look. May I offer an opinion ! Put some white paint on it, to make it ULTRA FAST @KiwiCol would agree 

I was wondering the same thing.

What's the advantage of the radial brakes over stock or the twin piston caliper conversion?

With the twin piston calipers and braided lines (race lines up front, rather than the Y-Splitter lines).  The front brakes are like 1 or 2 finger braking for me and stops seriously quick.

[seth]

On my standard bike I'll use standard caliper as if maintained they are very good .
But in the tuned bike the standard brakes were a bit lacking so radial calipers with a bit if extra power will help slow it down better .

[SpongeBob]

Top job @SpongeBob I really like the look. May I offer an opinion ! Put some white paint on it, to make it ULTRA FAST @KiwiCol would agree 

@GSXKING :
NEVER! :-)
Got a couple of blue'n'white GSXRs in the '90s and can't forget the pain trying to keep the white rims not too dirty...
Better to keep black rims; look clean from a distance even if stained with brake pads dust, mixed with dirt and chain grease :-)

[SpongeBob]

Spongey, one of the best ive seen. Truly beautiful. Did you use stock brakes? I mean how much diff with your conversion? Been going to change front brakes to radials for ages, just havent got there, i will.

@grog (& @BlueDragon) :
Got the bike 13 years now, and started the journey with a completely stock bike. So I got stock 6 pots calipers, then 4 pots Tokikos for quite some time, then upgraded to those radial HEL ones not long ago.

What makes a hell of difference ( ) is actually upgrading the master cylinder. In a few words, upgrading from 6 pots/4pots Tokikos to radial calipers while keeping the OEM MC won't really worth it and there won't be that much difference, IMHO. Except the looks, maybe.

A radial MC will give a much more progressive and 'accurate' feeling at the fingers, and if choosing a smaller bore MC, there will be a bit more lever travel, and a higher braking force at the end of the lever travel. I firstly upgraded to Nissin radial MCs, mainly because they were almost seamless integration on the bike (especially switches). I have then upgraded again to Brembos a couple of years ago as they are much more adjustable -- and the bonus was that I found solid, 'square-ish' reservoirs for them which makes visual integration better.

In terms of calipers: the 6 pots indeed do well ... if maintained very regularly and if not demanding too much to them as they tend to 'fade-out' when getting very hot -- see numerous posts on GSXR and SV1000 forums about that, and see also some tech articles about why long "C" shaped halves of 6 pots calipers without clamping bolts in the middle tend to bend slightly when getting very hot, hence the fading. Tokiko 4 pots calipers at least sorted out the issues of frequently 'sticking' pistons and fading, and as providing a reasonably close pistons surface compared to genuine 6 pots, result is not necessarily better braking, but at least not worse. 
Radial calipers such as HEL's provide a very constantly rigid caliper, being 4 pistons, therefore 'short', AND having a clamp bolt/bridge in the in the middle; And a slightly bigger overall piston surface, and stainless pistons for better heat dissipation. Finally radial calipers are attached by both ends, instead of an offset attachment.

So yes, I confirm from testing recently that radial calipers make a difference, in that case :-)
But this is a whole thing, so be prepared to invest a little  

[grog]

Thanks Spongey, great info. So, if i get a radial master and leave good condition 6 pots, should be better. What size bore? What reco Master, obvious Brembo the best. Any other choices? Im no racer so not concerned about over heating calipers. A standard looking reservoir id like, not a fan of those hanging high connected by hose, hate that look.

[Notty]

Thanks Spongey, great info. So, if i get a radial master and leave good condition 6 pots, should be better. What size bore? What reco Master, obvious Brembo the best. Any other choices? Im no racer so not concerned about over heating calipers. A standard looking reservoir id like, not a fan of those hanging high connected by hose, hate that look.

I did post before re master cylinder is the weak point of the brakes and that fitting a radial master was the answer but had no idea which to use so that info would be great 

[grog]

Same Notty. Went thru this a couple of years ago, again today. Just end up confused. If someone could tell us, one off a standard bike, GSXR or similar would be so good. Brembo, Nissin etc all promise the earth but not a specific fit/upgrade for 14. Seems there are chinese cheap, then Nissin then Brembo in escalating price. Of course then Italian models at nearly a grand.

[Blubber]

Brembo's are standard fitment on Ducati's.
I once "won" a radial brake master cilinder of a 1200 Multistrada and the feel was a big improvement on stock brake calipers. This was a while ago but i used them on conventional 4pots on a bandit.  Just to add to the confusion 

[SpongeBob]

Thanks Spongey, great info. So, if i get a radial master and leave good condition 6 pots, should be better. What size bore? What reco Master, obvious Brembo the best. Any other choices? Im no racer so not concerned about over heating calipers. A standard looking reservoir id like, not a fan of those hanging high connected by hose, hate that look.

@grog and @Notty
I will certainly not tell you what to do or what not to do -- I'm no racer either, nor am I Lin Jarvis or someone alike
I will rather hint you with a couple of suggestions based on my own experience, and for you to choose form, or to reject all together.

Just as a side note, about the 6 pots tending to fade: as I said I'm no racer, but I like to get around in the local mountain twisties, and it is a point of honour to me to show to my mates that despite the age, the weight, and the 'classic' design of the Old Lady, she and I are not the ones to wait for    And during hot summer days, that fading has happened a couple of times and it is always a bit scary moment.

As for the MCs:
- basically as far as I know, all after market radial MCs are designed to be installed with external, hanging high (nylon) reservoirs. I have seen some OEM (Nissin) radial MCs with (almost) integrated reservoirs on Kwaks, but even there, these were nylon reservoirs.
However, I found some time ago 'bespoke' aluminium reservoirs that could be closely attached to some Brembo MCs, making them looking like they are integrated to the MCs... more on that below.

- as far as know, all radial MCs have they output below them, not sideways as OEM; that means that if you choose to install "race setup" braided lines, i.e. dual full length, you would require a sideways banjo fitting adapter, to avoid the banjo bolt hitting the fuel tank when fully steering.
It depends on your handlebar height too.
Hoses attachment is therefore not exactly at the same location as OEM, so be prepared to some head scratching when it comes to hoses length required and possibly slight re-routing. (e.g for my setup with lower bars, full length lines, HEL radial calipers, I required lines about 3cm *longer* than standard HEL kit).
see pics on my previous post  and pic below as an example.

- option 1: aftermarket 19mm bore Nissin radial master cylinder:
  - closest 'seamless' replacement
  - easy installation on the '14
       - same switch and same connector as the OEM one (as well as on the clutch radial MC, should you wish to "upgrade" it too)
       - same banjo bolt thread (M10x1.25)
       - same lever look
       - the handlebar clamp is the same as OEM and features standard mirror attachment
  - delivered with the reservoir and mounting kit
  - same lever span adjustment as OEM (5 or 6 steps)
  - exactly the same colour as OEM
  - a bit difficult to "start/prime" them at installation, but then after, quite easy to bleed.

- option 2: aftermarket 17mm bore Nissin master cylinder (those I had used for a few years):
  - all comments as as above
  - longer travel of the lever, even more progressive, and stronger braking force at the end of the travel: can be surprising at first when not used to it, but very efficient, especially in downhill twisties
  - requires the brake lines/MC to be perfectly bleeded, and to ensure that the throttle cable guide cover allow enough safe clearance for the lever.

- option 3: Brembo master cylinder, e.g. 19 RCS - the ones I use for a couple of years now
  - brake switch is provided but features a different connector: a home made adapter is required.
  - banjo bolt thread is more 'standard': M10x1 -- it should be provided with the MC, though.
  - as standard, handle bar clamp does not provide the ability to fit an OEM mirror. Can be found separately  from several "CNC shops", though.
  - delivered without reservoir
  - quite easy and quick to "start/prime" at installation and bleed
  - foldable lever as standard
  - fine grained lever span adjustment
  - additional ratio adjustment: provide roughly the same effect as changing bore size: with regular "18-20" setting option, setting it to 18 leads to a behaviour close to the 17mm bore regular radial MC as described above, setting it to 20, behaviour will be close to 19mm bore regular radial MC.
  - aluminium, square-ish reservoir that directly attached to the MC available form MotoCorse, in Italy. Nice and great piece of kit, easy to install, although a bit expensive.
     If you go this route and have trouble to get the reservoirs because of the distance, let me know -- MotoCorse are not that far from my place and I am a good customer of them

Hope that helps

[Notty]

This looks good value but don't like the reservoir 
Nissin Gold Radial Brake Pump Master Cylinder 19 x 21 ref. 44MCB19NO
£125 incl p & p
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114152780288?hash=item1a94093200:g:szEAAOSwQzVeceQF
@grog @SpongeBob

[grog]

Good lookin item Notty. My question is still, anyone know of bike types that fitted radials, 17-19mm bore. Must be a few in wreckers yards if i knew what i was looking for.