Noob attempts full B&C system flush [hilarity ensues]

[SA14]

Ok, I'm going to pull the good old Aussie "give it a go" card. So go easy on me although some head shaking comments may teach me something too so fire away.

I'm not without my mechanical abilities. Done light to medium stuff before and I'm a tradie of sorts so I'm not too shy when it comes to feeling the limits of my skills and I'm a fairly good researcher/reader/asker. I have a manual and read a lot of threads and posts here and in other places for other mechanical reasons. I love doing stuff but I've never bled the brakes on a bike and only a few times on a car. I understand the basic principles; expel air from system and I know why.

Goal:
Flush and bleed all hydraulic systems. Clutch and brakes

Reason:
Bike has been sitting for 5 years, 2 years of which were out under a carport near the ocean, last 3 years in a dry garage. Fluids had to be flushed - everyone agreed.

Tools:
- Vacuum pump, clear hoses and nipple boots.
- 44 gallons of Dot 4 brake fluid (4 x 1 litre containers)
- 8mm spanner

I had no idea what was going to greet me when I pulled off the chain cover. Didn't even know there were three bolts. Pulled it off and yuk, big lumps of grease and dirt piled up inside but the clutch area was reasonably clean, no fluid leaks and what not. As soon as I removed the cover I could see how it all operated (mental notes taken for the clutch rod seal upgrade later).

When I showed I'd bought 4 litres of brake fluid in the "what did you buy today" thread I was met with a few wide eyes but I've already gone through 1 litre on the clutch alone. I knew that'd be the case which is why I bought a trillion gallons of it.

The biggest disappointment right off the bat was that the vacuum system I bought was utter shit. Pump works ok but I was getting massive and volcanic bubbles in the fluid as it exited the nipple. Turns out the hoses and boots seal very poorly and there are just vacuum leaks everywhere. I'm most upset because I couldn't see if there were any bubbles in the system causing my "can't select 1st gear after long ride" post. So that opportunity was lost but whatever; I reverted to old school "pump and dump" not entirely sure if it works the same for a clutch but I gave it a go using the aforementioned useless clear rubber hoses which worked ok if doing it old school.

Q. The clutch pedal felt sloppy after every fluid release. After every dump the clutch lever would be totally slack for the first (I'm guessing) 1cm until I pumped it (just the slack) half a dozen times after which it felt as firm as a clutch can feel before pulling in with a firm resistance as per normal. After the slack has been "pumped" out of the system it now feels like a normal clutch lever should. Is that normal?

Ran the reservoir dry a few times (big trap for young players...I know) which explains the 1 litre used. Who knows that feeling when you hear the sucking air/bubbling sound? I know it now too so welcome to some club? The last 20+ pump and dumps were solid fluid but the previous 40 or so did occassionally have a very fine stream of aeration which I presume is me bleeding out the air that I'd just sucked in. So I'm pretty sure it's clean, flushed and bled...to the max. I know that's excessive but I have a fuel tanker parked outside full of brake fluid so I'm fine to be sure, to be sure, to be sure.

I'm also changing to Gulf Western Syn-X 3,000 engine oil as suggested so hopefully that'll solve my 1st gear engagement problem. Now, onto the brakes. I'm inside typing this during a tea-break (again, as suggested) and thought I'd ask a few obvious questions while here. I'm going to head out and just try whatever but...

Q1) The rear brake has two bleed nipples. Inboard and outboard. Which do I do first? I'm guessing the furthest one which is the inner, followed by the closest outer one but that's just a guess using what little common sense I have about this operation.

Q2) Will the same "furthest one first" also apply to the front brakes? Left side first (as sitting on the bike) then the right?

I've just been reading the Haines manual and all it says is "bleed both sides" so I'm guessing it doesn't matter but I have a niggling feeling it does matter. On a car I'd do the furthest one first.

Shame about the vacuum pump though.

[SA14]

Update:

I tried the inner rear nipple and not much seemed to be coming out of there bu there was a bit so I emptied a half dozen reservoir's worth out of that one then tried the outer nipple. Much more came out of there so I pumped a half dozen reservoirs out of that one too, then went back and shot a few more through the rear then the front again. That ought to do it. Brake lever feels tight and solid and fluid runs clear. There wasn't any difference in colour to be honest so it was hard to tell when the old was out and the new was in so I reckon I flowed a good half a litre through there. That ought to do it...lol

Now, onto the fronts. I'll start with the left (if I can manage the gymnastics).

[SA14]

Ok well that was quick. Screw head is stripped on the front brake reservoir. Can't get the lid off. Tried some gentle pseudo-impact action with a small hammer tapping while pressing really hard onto the (correctly sized) driver but no budgies so that's the end of that.

Onto flushing the engine oil. I don't have a new sump plug washer although it was replaced 500km ago during the initial new owner oil change so I hope it'll be ok. Hopefully this Gulf Western Syn-X 3000 is here to stay the duration. With a new oil filter just also changed just 500km ago I'm guessing I'll be good to go with a good feeling that I've done all I can. Got the little torque wrench already set to 17 lb/ft 

Where the hell am I going to get a new little reservoir lid screw from and how the hell am I going to get this one out?

[grog]

Someone here b4 mentioned putting valve grinding paste into screw head for grip. Otherwise i guess you just drill head off, get thread out after.

[Hooli]

Talking of sump washers, I've only ever replaced mine once in about 40 oil changes & that was only cause I went to a dealer for a filter as everyone else was out of stock.

Grinding paste on the screw is something I've heard of but not tried. I've hammered a screwdriver into screws to create enough of a head to get them out before.

[SA14]

Talking of sump washers, I've only ever replaced mine once in about 40 oil changes & that was only cause I went to a dealer for a filter as everyone else was out of stock.

Grinding paste on the screw is something I've heard of but not tried. I've hammered a screwdriver into screws to create enough of a head to get them out before.

Good to know about the washer, as a noob I like to take every precaution I can as insurance so I'll put that one down to "fine for a while". I'll try the centre punch on the rim method first because it's a low stress screw that should be easy to get out. I think my reverse-out will be able to grab this one easy (unlike like the great shock bolt fiasco of 2020...lol) but only once I've got a replacement standing by to put back in. Is this one of the Japanese screw head moments or just bad luck? I always press hard and make sure my correctly sized driver is square to the plane before undoing any screws but all the previous ones were fine, not sure what this one's problem is.

Someone here b4 mentioned putting valve grinding paste into screw head for grip. Otherwise i guess you just drill head off, get thread out after.

Don't have any grinding paste but something to put on the shopping list. Is that like the paste they use for facing valves? (see? I know some stuff!) 

Anyway, true to the title it's all over for this afternoon because...drum roll please... I have a flattery. Last night when closing door and windows at the end of the night I noticed a feint red glow coming from the shed (eek!). I skipped out there at a medium pace to discover (have you guessed it?) yep, left it in park (exactly as I was warned not to do on here) and it was the tail light I was seeing through the window. No headlight parker globe meant I didn't notice it until after dark. I gave it a quick kick over last night and it seemed fine - I guess it wasn't as fine as it could be. Also, I didn't know it wouldn't start without the seat on...is that a thing or just my imagination? So I have my tiny no-amp-cheapest-possible phone charger sized battery charger putting away slowly. Should be charged in the next few days. It's a new battery.

Is it time for beer yet? I think so. Am I having fun yet? Absolutely! I bought this bike not just for riding but also to tinker with as a hobby. Mission accomplished.

[Hooli]

Aye I think it's a JIS screw thing, most people seem to replace them. I've got allen headed ones in mine as the local fastener place had them in stock when I popped in.

[KiwiCol]

SA14, put penetrating oil, a few drops, on the buggered screw.  I'll get in & help the release.  Yep, hammering a std screwdriver tip into it will help turn it, once you have the penetrating oil go in, You can buy the same sml screw at your regular nut n bolt shop.  Blacks fasteners are in NZ, dunno about over there. 
Just take the 1 good one (off either the clutch lid or the brake lid - they're the same) in, & they'll be able to match it no worries, cost ya a couple of bux at the most.

[SA14]

Aye I think it's a JIS screw thing, most people seem to replace them. I've got allen headed ones in mine as the local fastener place had them in stock when I popped in.

Yes, someone else (a visitor who came to check it out) said the same thing now that I remember. "replace those with alien head bolts as soon as you can because they'll strip (obviously because no one is aware of the JIS thing until it's pointed out to them) so I'll do that. I'm also going to buy myself a JIS screw driver set if I can find one anywhere.

SA14, put penetrating oil, a few drops, on the buggered screw.  I'll get in & help the release.  Yep, hammering a std screwdriver tip into it will help turn it, once you have the penetrating oil go in, You can buy the same sml screw at your regular nut n bolt shop.  Blacks fasteners are in NZ, dunno about over there. 
Just take the 1 good one (off either the clutch lid or the brake lid - they're the same) in, & they'll be able to match it no worries, cost ya a couple of bux at the most.

Ah, yes, good idea I'll go and do that now but all I have is wd-40. I used to have a really old can of Penetrene. Yeah I have several nut and bolt shops nearby. I even found one that accepts real money so I'll shop there. "c-card only" annoys me.

You guys are awesome, thanks for pitching in. This noob needs you.

[KiwiCol]

E-Bay for the JIS screwdrivers.  Heaps there, more than you'll actually need, but they are generally a good screwdriver.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=jis+screwdriver&_sacat=0

[SA14]

Thanks, Vessel seems to be the main brand, made in Japan.

Hey, while I'm waiting for the battery to charge is there any point in trying to drain cold oil if left to drip out overnight? May as well get that started if it'll drain enough. And yep, I'll put a big strip of masking tape across my ignition switch saying "NO OIL!" just in case I wander out there yawning in the morning and try and start it after charging. (see? I know things) :-)

[Hooli]

I prefer to drain them warm, my thinking is the recent 'stirring' of the oil will pick up any bits sat in the sump so they get washed out with it.

[SA14]

I prefer to drain them warm, my thinking is the recent 'stirring' of the oil will pick up any bits sat in the sump so they get washed out with it.

That makes sense. I'll wait.

[SA14]

Yay! (then oops).

Managed to extract the screw (centre punch/chisel spin didn't work but it might have loosened it a bit) but farqued it up sawing in a temporary screw slot (too deep). Head shaking is the correct response.

Off to Chunnings I go. Doubt they'll have anything but worth a shot. It's a beautiful day and I want to get out for a test ride but if they have nothing I'll just have to wait until I can replace them with allen bolts. Thread looks super fine though.

[KiwiCol]

Great it's out, how's the top of the reservoir look?   I doubt Bunning would have what's required, a Fastener specialist will have it.