Collector Box - Worth the Hassle?

[Eisenfarn]

Latest update: I eventually managed to weld a nut onto the inner bolt thread, it just snapped again further up, turns out these are A2 stainless steel bolts which have gone really brittle, so looks like it's a drill job. Punched a centre mark in the bolt and started drilling, the bolt is too hard for any of my HSS drill bits, so I ordered a set of Cobalt bits, with these I managed to drill into the bolt (eventually) ending with a 6mm bit. Missed all the original threads, so I carefully tapped out the hole, worked pretty good so thats one down. I would not use any of the chinese carbon steel taps to do this job as they will probably snap, I have an old set of 3 Goliath (British made) taps which did the job nicely, plenty of cutting grease and removing the tap to brush off the swarf every couple of mm.

The outer bolt will be a major pain as it is obstructed in part by the frame, has anyone managed to get a drill on this one?, thinking of pulling the left side engine mounting so I can lever the engine a bit to the right so the drill misses the frame, has anyone done this?

Thanks

[Eisenfarn]

Forgot to mention, to get the room to piss about with these bolts, removed the radiator, front wheel, mudguard and fork legs.

[Eisenfarn]

Latest saga installment: Been trying to get a set of cobalt hex shaft drill bits, so I can miss the frame, there is just no room for a drill chuck, can't get any. Did see Dewalt 6mm cobalt hex shaft bits in Screwfix, so I bought 3, but after opening up the package, they don't fit in a hex screwdriver head, so back to the drawing board.

Supported the enging with a Draper scissors jack, removed the left, right and front engine mountings, removed the frame front section, removed the clutch slave to access the rear mounting bolts, disconnected the gearchange mechanism. Had a struggle with the rear top 10mm engine mount bolt, why do they use those silly shallow nuts?, bottom rear 12mm bolt was even worse, it took a 2 foot 3/4 drive socket wrench with a 3 foot pipe on the end and all my 18 stone to budge that :(

Will remove the tank tomorrow and after pulling the last 2 rear mounting bolts attempt to nudge the engine over to the right a bit so I can have a clear run up to the broken bolt.

[KiwiCol]

Sounds worse every time.  Good luck mate, ya must be due for some . . .

BTW, that bolt should of been at 88nm, not 800nm

[grog]

What a nightmare mate, feelin for ya.

[Notty]

Nightmare 

[froudy]

I've stripped lots of bikes over the years and I hate the dreaded header bolts. Sometimes you get lucky and they all come out, but as you've found more often than not at least one of them shears off

Sounds like you're finally on the homeward run though now!

[Del]

if it ever happens to me again its off to engineers - I spent a small fortune getting the snapped studs and the snapped tap out would have been so much cheaper dropping engine and taking to engineers

good luck fella I feel your paint

[Eisenfarn]

On a lighter note!, downpipes 3 and 4 came off quite easily, 2 of the bolts were a bit tight, but sqeaked out after a bit of pissing about, ran a tap in to the tight ones, nice and smooth now. Just the one broken bolt to do now ...

[Eisenfarn]

Thought I'd post the final update to my saga, glad I can now see the light at the end of the tunnel. Let's hope it's not the Cardiff mail train.

Removed all the engine mounting bolts and slewed the engine on a flat stand over enough to miss the frame, being careful of any cables that may be at the end of their travel, loosed the rear wheel for some chain slack and loosened off the intake port rubbers.

Had a real problem drilling out the bolt, started off with a centre punch to mark the spot and then a 3mm cobalt drill bit, took 2 of these to finally make it through the bolt despite stopping regularly to douse in cutting grease. Followed the 3mm with a 4 and finally a 6mm, the bolt is still pretty hard and took some considerable effort to get through to the end of the bolt. I have a 3 step Goliath 8mm tap set, but despite best efforts and the hole being pretty central, the tap had a real job cutting through the remainder of the hard stainless bolt, and it pretty much chewed up the hole, so going down the helicoil route. Re-drilled the hole to 8.5mm, tapped this to 10mm @ 1.25 (Metric fine) for the helicol O/D. Tested the helicoil in the hole, looks good. Smeared with plenty of Loctite 272 (Loctite high strength, high temp) and seated the double helicoil just beneath the lip of the hole, I'll give it 24 hours to fully cure before I break off the inner tang.

After what I've read about stainless steel bolts in manifolds, and the problems I've had because of the hardness of the metal and what looks like galvanic corrosions welding the fu***ers in the head, I will never use SS again for this purpose, I'm going to use mild steel bolts with a liberal dosing of ceramic grease and making a point to re-dose the buggers every year.

Thats it really, while I had the beast in bits I also:
Removed the "pairs" system with a kit that includes blanking plates and 2 x pipe ends.
Gapped and installed new spark plugs
Refinished some rust spots on the frame with Zinc 192 and Hammerite (sprayed)
Checked the "tea bag" filter and installed an external fuel filter
Did a bare metal resparay on the centre stand, Zinc 192 and sprayed Hammerite.
Sourced a new 10mm SS nyloc nut and bolt for the above
Refinished the oil pipes from engine to Radiator (these are listed as 110 quid each, yes each)
Sourced new 8mm isolating rubber / steel washers for the radiator
Also ordered a new set of Delkevic downpipes, even though the originals are'nt that bad, since I'm doing all this, I may as well, they'll go nicely with the Delkevic collector box.

With hindsight, which is a lovely thing, I would have pulled the engine and put it straight on the bench to do the work rather than pissing about, the only manifold bolt obstructed by the frame is No2 (3rd bolt in from the left), any others can be worked en situ without any problems.

May the force be with you ....

[Del]

Well done fella love teh persaverance I did this with my 1400 but the bandint - as you said removed engine dropped off at engineers to do teh work

[Andre]

Your nightmare was real, mine was only imagined. Heard so many horror stories about these header bolts but the force must have been with me when I finally manned up and did the removal without any tragedy.

[Snapey]

bottom rear 12mm bolt was even worse, it took a 2 foot 3/4 drive socket wrench with a 3 foot pipe on the end and all my 18 stone to budge that :(

Suzuki use blue Loctite on those bolts. Hot air gun on the nuts makes all the difference.

[Eisenfarn]

Yes I could see some sort of threadlock on em, cleaned up the bolts and installed with waterproof grease on the shafts, used much deeper nuts than the originals and used a touch of blue loctite on assembly.

[Eisenfarn]

Some photos