My K2 has a nice custom 4-1 pipe but I've been thinking about converting it back to the original 4-2 configuration. Not sure if a Delkevic sysyem or another custom pipe but on a ride last weekend 2 motorcycles 'elders' said I should stick with a 4-1 setup as 'they always sound better'.
I just want the twin pipes as they look good but I don't want to take away my bikes nice exhaust note.
What you want is "eine eierlegende Wollmilchsau"! Translation: Egg-laying-wool-milk-pig". Closest you can get to that is manipulating the original 4-2. Instructions are here how to do this:
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1924.0
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=7020.msg93133#msg93133 (http://[url=https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=7020.msg93133#msg93133)
Define 'better'.
If you want to pretend to be a screaming spurtsbike then a 4 into 1 is better for that, if you want it to sound like a big grumbly monster then 4 into 2 is better.
Personally I prefer the sound of a 4 into 2 with nice cans on, it looks better too. I'm not changing the full Akra on my 14 though as that sounds good too.
Guy in German forum made himself a 4-2 Akra. Looks great. Don't know how it sounds or performs; I imagine both good.
Plus one for the 4-2 config with Delkevic 30cm (or shorter) carbon cans (or SS 30's) That will give you the sound & look you're after. & I'm old too. :onya: :cheers:
Forgot about exhausts being in the can of worms department. Im a tri oval fan, 4-2 or 4-1, end baffle out, both sound deep,rumbly and not too loud. Ive tried 4 cans on mine and definitely a bit of mid range boost with Yoshi.IMO
My Bandit, GSX11, GSX14, GSXR all have 4-1's.
When I find the right pipe at the right price my B-King and Busa's will get 4-1's too.
Much prefer the sound, look and weight saving.
Personal taste.
A Busa with Dual tri Oval , followed for 10 mins, sure sounded good to me, he was applying revs as necessary.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 13 February 2025, 07:14 PMA Busa with Dual tri Oval , followed for 10 mins, sure sounded good to me, he was applying revs as necessary.
Yeah, had twin Tri-Ovals on my 04 and twin Ovals on my 02.
(https://i.ibb.co/1YGKLckf/IMG-1485.jpg) (https://ibb.co/Fk4JKpFb)
Got twin Ovals on my naked Busa and twin carbon Ovals on my 11 Busa.
They are a quick easy fix to remove the stock cans, although the gains are minimal.
(We ran 2 near identical B-Kings back to back on the dyno, one stock, one with expensive Yoshi cans) both had good A/F readings. The stock one made 1.5hp more, so pretty much the same.
I won't rule out twin cans in the future, but the 4-1, or on a Busa 4-2-1 has a lot more appeal to me.
I love the howl of my GSX14's Yoshimura Cyclone full system.
Grog, did taking the baffle out make any difference at all to its performance. I've a Tri Oval with baffle on mine, it does sound a bit tame.
Col, no difference performance but way better sound,much deeper than other three i have.Make sure you plug up bolt/ rivet hole or it will whistle.Just a happy bike i guess, whistling away. 😂
My 4-1 stubby akroprovic sounds fantastic if a bit loud :cheers:
Remus revolution 4-1 on mine , a nice crisp rasp with baffles out , bit muted when they're in but that's just for the mot .
Mine came with 4-1 Yoshimura system. Muffler got damaged after a crash in 2007. Kept the headers and adapted new muffler.
I bought a Pipemasters muffler (local guy in Brisbane) oval stainless which gave better performance with more back pressure. Easy to clean and looks as good as the day it went on.
The note is pleasant without drawing attention from Police. 🤞🤞
Quote from: seth on Friday, 14 February 2025, 11:12 PMMy 4-1 stubby akroprovic sounds fantastic if a bit loud :cheers:
I've lways been a self confessed Yoshi fan boi. I probably have 8 or 10 Yoshi cans and full systems around the place, but I just can't find any love for their stuff for new bikes.
They have changed a lot of the cans, the link pipes look awkward and the heat shields look very much like an afterthought.
I've never owned an Akra but that may change. They look a lot nicer than the current Yoshi full systems for the Gen-3 and offer great results without being stupid loud like the Brocks pipes.
(https://i.ibb.co/m1F9dxz/IMG-1493.png) (https://ibb.co/w3rS8v6)
The current pipe on my bike is a custom, I think I know who made it so I'm hoping he hasn't retired yet as I'd love him to fabricate one for the other side (I have a 4-2 collector).
Mine has the FE Yoshimura muffler, I like the sound, subdued unless your revving it out and then it sounds sweet 😁
Micky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 06:12 PMMicky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
What part of 'I Like' didn't you understand? :rofl2: :rofl2:
If I want noise I ride the XJR1300 .. twin Delklevics makes it sound angry. 😁😁
If you can tell the difference between a 4 into 1 and a 4 into 2, you're not going fast enough!
Micky, very crap answer. Ill ignore it this time.
So you didn't get my sense of humour ... :whatever: :frustrated
Quote from: MickyJB on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 07:10 PMQuote from: grog on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 06:12 PMMicky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
What part of 'I Like' didn't you understand? :rofl2: :rofl2:
If I want noise I ride the XJR1300 .. twin Delklevics makes it sound angry. 😁😁
I had a 2001 red/black Xjr SP with dual Remus pipes, it sounded awesome but man that thing drank fuel...
Quote from: Coopz on Sunday, 16 February 2025, 10:24 AMQuote from: MickyJB on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 07:10 PMQuote from: grog on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 06:12 PMMicky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
What part of 'I Like' didn't you understand? :rofl2: :rofl2:
If I want noise I ride the XJR1300 .. twin Delklevics makes it sound angry. 😁😁
I had a 2001 red/black Xjr SP with dual Remus pipes, it sounded awesome but man that thing drank fuel...
My XJR consistently gets better fuel economy than my GSX1400. I think the Suzi is running a bit rich ... what's the go to fix for that. ??
Well, apart from the obvious plugs & air cleaner, the oil temp sensor. If the sensor is sending erroneous messages to the ecu saying the oil is still cold / cool, the ecu runs a richer starting / warm up mixture. Could be that, there have been a few gone bad & reported on here.
What sort of usage are you getting? Standard running 14 will give anywhere between 6.7L/100k to 5.5L/100k depends on yer wrist action . . .
Mid to low 6's .. if you look at the screenshot the figure of 9 was a fill up after doing the tank breather hole mod.
New plugs and air filter, Oil & Filter due in another 2000k. Bikes goes superbly, and I don't know much about fuel injection whether fuel amount can be adjusted 🤷�♂️
Quote from: MickyJB on Monday, 17 February 2025, 12:55 PMI don't know much about fuel injection whether fuel amount can be adjusted 🤷�♂️
I think only the later models are normally flashed and remapped on the ECU, but as the 14's ECU is quite basic it's not that common. I'm not a huge fan of PowerCommanders as they only do basic fueling, but I have one on my 14 that was mapped on a dyno with a full system and can't fault it. It pulls smooth and strong across a very wide range and isn't awful on fuel.
(https://i.ibb.co/FLZVC0vG/IMG-1504.jpg)
(https://ibb.co/jP0RsWK7)
Quote from: MickyJB on Sunday, 16 February 2025, 04:20 PMQuote from: Coopz on Sunday, 16 February 2025, 10:24 AMQuote from: MickyJB on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 07:10 PMQuote from: grog on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 06:12 PMMicky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
What part of 'I Like' didn't you understand? :rofl2: :rofl2:
If I want noise I ride the XJR1300 .. twin Delklevics makes it sound angry. 😁😁
I had a 2001 red/black Xjr SP with dual Remus pipes, it sounded awesome but man that thing drank fuel...
My XJR consistently gets better fuel economy than my GSX1400. I think the Suzi is running a bit rich ... what's the go to fix for that. ??
Sumting Wong.. My XJ was the carby version and it averages a thirsty 10 litres per 100k. I had to constantly flick the petcock to reserve at 180k range. I get around 300k+ out of a 1400 fill-up.
Quote from: Coopz on Monday, 17 February 2025, 01:57 PMQuote from: MickyJB on Sunday, 16 February 2025, 04:20 PMQuote from: Coopz on Sunday, 16 February 2025, 10:24 AMQuote from: MickyJB on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 07:10 PMQuote from: grog on Saturday, 15 February 2025, 06:12 PMMicky, tri oval on yours👍End baffle out, so nice.
What part of 'I Like' didn't you understand? :rofl2: :rofl2:
If I want noise I ride the XJR1300 .. twin Delklevics makes it sound angry. 😁😁
I had a 2001 red/black Xjr SP with dual Remus pipes, it sounded awesome but man that thing drank fuel...
My XJR consistently gets better fuel economy than my GSX1400. I think the Suzi is running a bit rich ... what's the go to fix for that. ??
Sumting Wong.. My XJ was the carby version and it averages a thirsty 10 litres per 100k. I had to constantly flick the petcock to reserve at 180k range. I get around 300k+ out of a 1400 fill-up.
m
My XJR is 2002 and carby also. Consistently in the mid 5's and it's not ridden slow
Quote from: MickyJB on Monday, 17 February 2025, 12:55 PMMid to low 6's .. if you look at the screenshot the figure of 9 was a fill up after doing the tank breather hole mod.
New plugs and air filter, Oil & Filter due in another 2000k. Bikes goes superbly, and I don't know much about fuel injection whether fuel amount can be adjusted 🤷�♂️
Fuel injection can be adjusted on all years. Equipment and methods vary.
Before adjusting the EFI-controller many other things should be considered, checked, and necessary/desired action taken. Makes no sense to fiddle with the controller when something is amiss.
There are a great many things affecting fuel consumption. First is how you ride. I have done as little as 5.1 liter on a leisurely long ride and over 8 liter on madness runs. Riding short distances increases consumption. The colder the weather the higher, the warmer the lower.
Fuel quality is another one. Got ethanol in it? The more of it the higher the consumption.
4.64 vs. 9.19 liter on consecutive days ??? What was different? Maybe your fingers slipped when entering the values? Filled tank at very different levels? Never seen values like that before.
You can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).
It's likely to be an issue causing it. Sensor wise in order of how much (I think, I know the oil temp does the most) they affect the fueling I'd look at the oil temp, intake air temp, MAP & external air pressure. I'd expect a failed MAP sensor to give running issues at lower speeds though.
Oddly enough a partly blocked fuel filter (normally the high pressure one) can give the appearance of rich running. It causes a drop in the pressure to the fuel rail, which means the spray pattern from the injectors is wrong & the fuel doesn't fully atomise. because of that the mixture doesn't burn as well & you'll need more throttle for the same power output resulting in poorer economy and get blackened plugs from the partially unburnt mixture. Also running a higher throttle opening for the same revs/power gives a lower MAP reading causing longer injector timings to be run by the ECU so it's dumping even more fuel in as it's what should be an accelerating situation from the readings it sees (ECUs don't see the fuel pressure on these bikes so can't allow for it like later stuff).
""""
4.64 vs. 9.19 liter on consecutive days ??? What was different? Maybe your fingers slipped when entering the values? Filled tank at very different levels? Never seen values like that before."""
One was a short trip and top up, the higher number was after I did the hole mod in the filler neck. Tank took more fuel than it ever has.
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 17 February 2025, 08:47 PMYou can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).
It's likely to be an issue causing it. Sensor wise in order of how much (I think, I know the oil temp does the most) they affect the fueling I'd look at the oil temp, intake air temp, MAP & intake pressure. I'd expect a failed MAP sensor to give running issues at lower speeds though.
Oddly enough a partly blocked fuel filter (normally the high pressure one) can give the appearance of rich running. It causes a drop in the pressure to the fuel rail, which means the spray pattern from the injectors is wrong & the fuel doesn't fully atomise. because of that the mixture doesn't burn as well & you'll need more throttle for the same power output resulting in poorer economy and get blackened plugs from the partially unburnt mixture. Also running a higher throttle opening for the same revs/power gives a lower MAP reading causing longer injector timings to be run by the ECU so it's dumping even more fuel in as it's what should be an accelerating situation from the readings it sees (ECUs don't see the fuel pressure on these bikes so can't allow for it like later stuff).
Mine is a 2008 model
Fuel filter has been modded and high pressure in line filter fitted, no change in economy from before or after. I do ride quickly and the economy hasn't changed in 15000klms I've ridden it. I know a couple of Bike shops that specialise in tunes & dyno set ups, towards the end of the year I'll get it checked out.
Micky, your fuel figures vary lots. Ride hard, ride soft, not much difference on mine. Something not quite right. My gauge flashes around 300k every time, means 6 litres left. At least 400 tank full.
Grog is that 6 litres when both start to flash ?
And have you done the breather hole mod ?
Only first Col. Have extra hole in tank. Have done just over 430 k tank, was 2 up , not conserving, just normal.
I agree (it's in the handbook somewhere from memory) 6L left & last bar begins to flash, 1.75L left & the fuel symbol & the last bar begin to flash.
On first flashing symbol I have about 100k range left, once both start flashing I have about 29k-30k left till I'm pushing it. I very rarely let it get to both flashing.
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 17 February 2025, 08:47 PMYou can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).
You can adjust the fueling starting with K2. Done it myself (K2). First had the dealer do it. As I was not satisfied with the result, I did it myself. Used the SI Adjuster from https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/ (https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/)
It's a rudimentary adjustment(s) but certainly sufficient in many cases. Results of bi-yearly emissions-test showed a very clean running engine. Way too clean for my taste. Explained the slight bucking in low rpm-range. Adjusted the FI till the bucking disappeared. Went to emissions test station and the values were where I want them in that rpm-range. My explanation for the "too efficient": Ignition advancement and taking out the limiting in the lower gears.
Upper ranges can be adjusted as well, but then a dyno (or an AFR-meter on the bike) is needed. Something I would do if changing exhaust/air filter (which I won't). I'll probably do that anyway (AFR-meter) without changing exhaust/filter.
Using the above tool for adjusting the FI in the lower ranges is imo superior to the usual dyno based FI adjustments as I have yet to see/hear it being done with a focus on the low ranges. Maybe I get this wrong but from what I have gathered is that the dyno has a difficult time with low ranges. Have yet to see a dyno diagram that shows anything below 2500 rpm.
I would have gone the power commander route but I don't do stuff that is glaringly visible for officials to identify as illegal.
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 18 February 2025, 09:35 PMQuote from: Hooli on Monday, 17 February 2025, 08:47 PMYou can't adjust the fueling as such on the basic FI system a 14 has. It needs aftermarket stuff such as PCIII or reflash (only possible K5 onwards).
You can adjust the fueling starting with K2. Done it myself (K2). First had the dealer do it. As I was not satisfied with the result, I did it myself. Used the SI Adjuster from https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/ (https://www.healtech-electronics.com/products/sia/)
It's a rudimentary adjustment(s) but certainly sufficient in many cases. Results of bi-yearly emissions-test showed a very clean running engine. Way too clean for my taste. Explained the slight bucking in low rpm-range. Adjusted the FI till the bucking disappeared. Went to emissions test station and the values were where I want them in that rpm-range. My explanation for the "too efficient": Ignition advancement and taking out the limiting in the lower gears.
Upper ranges can be adjusted as well, but then a dyno (or an AFR-meter on the bike) is needed. Something I would do if changing exhaust/air filter (which I won't). I'll probably do that anyway (AFR-meter) without changing exhaust/filter.
Using the above tool for adjusting the FI in the lower ranges is imo superior to the usual dyno based FI adjustments as I have yet to see/hear it being done with a focus on the low ranges. Maybe I get this wrong but from what I have gathered is that the dyno has a difficult time with low ranges. Have yet to see a dyno diagram that shows anything below 2500 rpm.
I would have gone the power commander route but I don't do stuff that is glaringly visible for officials to identify as illegal.
You're misunderstanding my point Andre, we're agreeing really.
You can't adjust the FI without extra kit. I was trying to say it's not like carbs where you can and are expected tweak a mixture screw if needed, it's not designed to adjusted so you have to modify it's fueling tables..
That adjuster you mention sounds like the Yoshi box people used years ago too, I bet it does exactly the same thing.
It does what the yoshi box does. Imo it acts kinda like the mixture screws on carbs. I used feel (eyes, ears, nose) and how it rides as guides and CO-measurement to confirm that it is where I want it and for it to pass official emissions test. Which it does; as the limit is very genourous for the E2-class of bikes. The limit allowed would definitively be to rich for this engine.
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 18 February 2025, 06:36 PMMicky, your fuel figures vary lots. Ride hard, ride soft, not much difference on mine. Something not quite right. My gauge flashes around 300k every time, means 6 litres left. At least 400 tank full.
I'm going for a 400k ride on Saturday, I'll fill it up to max before I leave and see how many K's I get. We are going away with our Van soon so when we're back I'll get it put on a dyno and get it sorted. 🙏
Back in mid 80s Nissan RB30 came out. Beautiful multi point motor. Its ecu has an access hole with red& green led and screw adjuster. You could adjust fuelling by turning the screw. Both lights flashing equally perfect stoichio, cant remember which colour but either flashing faster meant rich or lean. Next model didnt have the adjuster, i guess the tune shops weren't selling any gadgets to adjust. So my thinking is any ecu, car, bike, couldve still had that adjuster. How easy would it be. The led were also fault code display. Turn screw fully clockwise, leds flashed codes which were listed in manual, if any faults.
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 19 February 2025, 04:12 PMBack in mid 80s Nissan RB30 came out. Beautiful multi point motor. Its ecu has an access hole with red& green led and screw adjuster. You could adjust fuelling by turning the screw. Both lights flashing equally perfect stoichio, cant remember which colour but either flashing faster meant rich or lean. Next model didnt have the adjuster, i guess the tune shops weren't selling any gadgets to adjust. So my thinking is any ecu, car, bike, couldve still had that adjuster. How easy would it be. The led were also fault code display. Turn screw fully clockwise, leds flashed codes which were listed in manual, if any faults.
There's no need for it on a properly setup ECU though is there Grog. They all run closed loop so monitor their own fuelling from the O2 sensors & self adjust to stay at the target range. You only get issues when the target range is wrong for the sake of passing emissions standards etc.
Correct Hooli, just thought id mention it, fairly unique way.
Your description did remind me of the old mechanical injection on Fords (think Merc used it too) with the long allen key to adjust the mixture by the spring loaded flap, was it K-jettronic?
Yes, K Jetronic, that stuff was a headache. L Jetronic, much friendlier. Back then we were new at injection, had no choice but learn, was my trade. They built all that tech but bugger all diagnostics came with it. Todays much easier. 14 shouldve came with O2 sensor.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 20 February 2025, 06:53 PM14 shouldve came with O2 sensor.
No thanks. I don't mind O2 sensor at all, as long as it is installed (and controlled) by me. If it came with the sensor, it would run in close loop up to mid-range rpm.
Funny but to tune engines properly they still remove the O2 sensors from the system, they did on my HD last year.
Closed loop is normally great, with factory style restrictive exhausts.