Been out on bike all day k7, came home and stopped for 20 minutes, started it then turned if it off for 2 minutes and now won't start. Pump not priming with ignition but clocks sweeping etc, newish battery so i'm thinking kill, clutch or side stand switches to start, can anyone explain how to test and eliminate these please or anything else to look at, cheers guys.
Is it turning over though?
None of those interlocks will stop the pump from priming except the kill switch if the power supply to the pump is Good ( fuses connections etc) could be the pump itself , run an auxiliary supply to the pump and see if it runs would be my suggestion before you start tearing the electrics apart ,if it runs then it will be a process of elimination but the kill switch is a possible.
Could be the ignition switch too. There's a separate terminal that powers the pump circuit & a few of us have had intermittent 'pump not priming' issues & found the contacts in the switch filthy.
Thanks for the info guys, gives me a starting point, engine turns as normal, only issue is pump not priming when switching ignition on, all else appears ok.
Quote from: Hooli on Friday, 05 July 2024, 03:33 PMCould be the ignition switch too. There's a separate terminal that powers the pump circuit & a few of us have had intermittent 'pump not priming' issues & found the contacts in the switch filthy.
Is this just a case of spraying with electrical contact cleaner
You can not get to the contacts without disassembling the ignition switch. Hooli has some instructions on here.
I had this problem and cleaning the contacts solved it.
@Chappers just read through this thread - it may be that the fuse for the fuel pump has blown - note entry #4 from Speedy1959 in this thread
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=239.0
The thread that
@Andre mentions about stripping your ignition switch is here https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=6268.0
Check fuel pump relay is clicking while trying to start. Think it acts as indicators relay also, pull plug and check for dirty connectors, basics first Mate.
Thank you to everyone who has replied, I love you all :smitten:
Gonna go at it tomorrow and will report back.
Do you see "CHECK" on the dash?
If so, there is what looks like an unused connector near the the tail light - it is actually a bridge.
Pull the cover (bridge) off and clean up the connector.
Worth a try save pulling apart ignition switches, immobilisers etc.
:hat:
Quote from: black14 on Saturday, 06 July 2024, 09:01 AMDo you see "CHECK" on the dash?
If so, there is what looks like an unused connector near the the tail light - it is actually a bridge.
Pull the cover (bridge) off and clean up the connector.
Worth a try save pulling apart ignition switches, immobilisers etc.
:hat:
All ok
Update, I've taken fuel pump out and tested it, it's running. 6 fuses under seat all cleaned and checked plus 6 fuses behind left panel. Fuel pump relay is clicking when ignition turned on so assuming it's ok ? indicators working. As for the kill switch the clocks have been converted so tacho flashes when kill switch is on and that's ok. Anything else before I attempt the ignition barrel.
Edit
I've taken the ignition barrel out and cleaned it, seems ok, also put a multimeter on the plug that connects to fuel tank just above pump relay and am getting over 12v when turning ignition on for a few seconds. I've also tested the tip over which is within spec and tested the fuel pump relay as per the Haynes manual and appears to be ok. I've checked continuity in the wiring from pump to harness and seems ok.
I've had the earth wires rot & fall off the tank. There's enough connectivity for the fuel gauge to still work but the pump isn't happy if that happens.
Easy check when you lift the tank.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 07 July 2024, 06:02 AMI've had the earth wires rot & fall off the tank. There's enough connectivity for the fuel gauge to still work but the pump isn't happy if that happens.
Easy check when you lift the tank.
Where are they please
Quote from: Chappers on Sunday, 07 July 2024, 06:22 AMQuote from: Hooli on Sunday, 07 July 2024, 06:02 AMI've had the earth wires rot & fall off the tank. There's enough connectivity for the fuel gauge to still work but the pump isn't happy if that happens.
Easy check when you lift the tank.
Where are they please
Lift the tank & you'll see them. It's the two black wires from the multiplug to the tank, they fit the body of the fuel sensor & pump mount.
@Chappers given what you have tested - and I know you mentioned the clutch switch - but have you tried taking the wires off the clutch switch and bridging across them with (say) a paperclip and seeing if she starts? I had this on my K7 some years back where I stopped for petrol and the bike did everything but start - turned out that the clutch switch had gone a bit ad-hoc and when I bridged it it all started up.
You can't leave it bridged (as it sets a start-up map, but at least if the bridging works it will eradicate the clutch switch (also sometimes if you have aftermarket brake/clutch levers fitted, the clutch lever can cause the clutch switch not to work - if that's the case I'll explain!)
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Monday, 08 July 2024, 06:34 PM@Chappers given what you have tested - and I know you mentioned the clutch switch - but have you tried taking the wires off the clutch switch and bridging across them with (say) a paperclip and seeing if she starts? I had this on my K7 some years back where I stopped for petrol and the bike did everything but start - turned out that the clutch switch had gone a bit ad-hoc and when I bridged it it all started up.
You can't leave it bridged (as it sets a start-up map, but at least if the bridging works it will eradicate the clutch switch (also sometimes if you have aftermarket brake/clutch levers fitted, the clutch lever can cause the clutch switch not to work - if that's the case I'll explain!)
Not tried bridging the clutch switch wires, yes it does have after market levers, Pazzo I think. Thank you to everyone trying to help, starting to pull my hair out of which i have very little.
The bike is at my in-laws at the moment as that's where i broke down, fortunately they have a huge workshop but means i can't pop out to try stuff.
Quote from: Chappers on Tuesday, 09 July 2024, 01:44 AMQuote from: gsxbarmy on Monday, 08 July 2024, 06:34 PM@Chappers given what you have tested - and I know you mentioned the clutch switch - but have you tried taking the wires off the clutch switch and bridging across them with (say) a paperclip and seeing if she starts? I had this on my K7 some years back where I stopped for petrol and the bike did everything but start - turned out that the clutch switch had gone a bit ad-hoc and when I bridged it it all started up.
You can't leave it bridged (as it sets a start-up map, but at least if the bridging works it will eradicate the clutch switch (also sometimes if you have aftermarket brake/clutch levers fitted, the clutch lever can cause the clutch switch not to work - if that's the case I'll explain!)
Not tried bridging the clutch switch wires, yes it does have after market levers, Pazzo I think. Thank you to everyone trying to help, starting to pull my hair out of which i have very little.
The bike is at my in-laws at the moment as that's where i broke down, fortunately they have a huge workshop but means i can't pop out to try stuff.
If you have Pazzo levers then they are no problem, its more the cheapo Chinese copies on eBay that have been known to cause issues at times with starting.
Best of luck with tracking the issue down!!!!
Are you a member of a breakdown service so you can get the bike back home
It might just be worth joining to get it back home .
I could probably get it in my van, its only 15 miles so not too bad. Popped over this evening and bridged the clutch lever switch and took it off and tested with metre for continuity, seems ok, also took tank off and hooked up to battery and pump is running in tank.
Would a fault kill switch cause my issue, if so how to test for it. I stuck the meter on the battery and its 12.8v.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I'm stumped. I'm off on holiday on Wednesday so wont be able to look at it for 3 weeks now.
One of your posts mentions work being done on the tacho to show if the kill switch is activated, you wouldn't also have a data tool alarm / immobiliser fitted as well would you? They are infamous for giving trouble trying to start.
Quote from: Chappers on Tuesday, 09 July 2024, 05:46 AMI could probably get it in my van, its only 15 miles so not too bad. Popped over this evening and bridged the clutch lever switch and took it off and tested with metre for continuity, seems ok, also took tank off and hooked up to battery and pump is running in tank.
Would a fault kill switch cause my issue, if so how to test for it. I stuck the meter on the battery and its 12.8v.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I'm stumped. I'm off on holiday on Wednesday so wont be able to look at it for 3 weeks now.
@Chappers did you try to start the bike when you bridged the clutch switch wires? I'd try that - I appreciate you said you had continuity, however, I'd still try starting it with the clutch switch wires bridged. Checking for continuity only proves the wiring was getting power - bridging the wires takes the clutch switch out of the circuit (and the clutch switch itself could be the issue). It's perfectly safe to start and run the bike with the clutch switch bridged (just not in the longer term as you run on a startup rather than "run" map, but ok whilst you get a new switch if indeed that is what the issue is).
You might also try bridging the side stand switch wires in the same way to see if that makes any difference.
Regards the kill switch, easiest way to test it is again to bridge the wires in the plug. If you take the headlight off, trace the wire back from the RH switch to the plug in the headlamp - from what I can make out from the wiring diagram, the kill switch wires are Orange/Brown and Orange/White. Bridge those wires in the plug on the loom side and see if she starts.
This not starting issue hasnt followed correct pattern to solve. First 2 steps, is it fuel or spark. You can then follow path to solve. HEI tester on plug lead, easy answer, it either sparks or it doesnt. If you have spark, all good, if it doesnt, then are multiple causes. If you have spark, hopefully do, then check for fuel prob. A quick spray into air box carby cleaner etc, it should run a few seconds. You then need to see if its a pressure problem or injectors not pulsing.At least doing those things you know why it doesnt run. Finding out specifics is next chapter
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Tuesday, 09 July 2024, 07:54 AMQuote from: Chappers on Tuesday, 09 July 2024, 05:46 AMI could probably get it in my van, its only 15 miles so not too bad. Popped over this evening and bridged the clutch lever switch and took it off and tested with metre for continuity, seems ok, also took tank off and hooked up to battery and pump is running in tank.
Would a fault kill switch cause my issue, if so how to test for it. I stuck the meter on the battery and its 12.8v.
Any other suggestions would be appreciated as I'm stumped. I'm off on holiday on Wednesday so wont be able to look at it for 3 weeks now.
@Chappers did you try to start the bike when you bridged the clutch switch wires? I'd try that - I appreciate you said you had continuity, however, I'd still try starting it with the clutch switch wires bridged. Checking for continuity only proves the wiring was getting power - bridging the wires takes the clutch switch out of the circuit (and the clutch switch itself could be the issue). It's perfectly safe to start and run the bike with the clutch switch bridged (just not in the longer term as you run on a startup rather than "run" map, but ok whilst you get a new switch if indeed that is what the issue is).
You might also try bridging the side stand switch wires in the same way to see if that makes any difference.
Regards the kill switch, easiest way to test it is again to bridge the wires in the plug. If you take the headlight off, trace the wire back from the RH switch to the plug in the headlamp - from what I can make out from the wiring diagram, the kill switch wires are Orange/Brown and Orange/White. Bridge those wires in the plug on the loom side and see if she starts.
Yea did try, but fuel pump not priming so just spinning over, will try your other suggestions when back from hols
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 09 July 2024, 06:29 PMThis not starting issue hasnt followed correct pattern to solve. First 2 steps, is it fuel or spark. You can then follow path to solve. HEI tester on plug lead, easy answer, it either sparks or it doesnt. If you have spark, all good, if it doesnt, then are multiple causes. If you have spark, hopefully do, then check for fuel prob. A quick spray into air box carby cleaner etc, it should run a few seconds. You then need to see if its a pressure problem or injectors not pulsing.At least doing those things you know why it doesnt run. Finding out specifics is next chapter
I haven't checked spark but will do, fuel pump isn't priming when ignition turned on, will do as you suggest when back from hols
So quick update, it has a spark, side stand and cluch bridged, no pump priming but still spins over. Separated kill switch plug in headlight, bridged the wires, pump primed once but won't prime again but spins over, cheers guys.
Check the fuses behind the lh panel near your knee
Quote from: black14 on Saturday, 06 July 2024, 09:01 AMDo you see "CHECK" on the dash?
If so, there is what looks like an unused connector near the the tail light - it is actually a bridge.
Pull the cover (bridge) off and clean up the connector.
Worth a try save pulling apart ignition switches, immobilisers etc.
:hat:
I'm leaning towards rechecking this. I believe the extra plug is for a dealer fit immobiliser & the bridging wires are for the starter & fuel pump circuit (the two circuits Tatcham approval typically needs). I've seen it been an issue on a GSXR & we all know the bikes are pretty similar design wise when you get to how things work.
Personally I woul narrow it down by hotwiring the pump multiple times to take it out of the equation 100% Once you know its a supply problem trace it back to the source
All fuses checked and are ok.
No check on dash, rear plug disconnected and check comes on dash.
I've had the pump out twice and connected it to battery and it seems to run OK.
Just put tank back on after checking pump again, runs ok, connected it, turned ignition on and the fuel pump primed, but won't prime again.
So when you get pump pressure it starts??
Quote from: Horse on Sunday, 28 July 2024, 12:26 AMSo when you get pump pressure it starts??
Didn't start it as didn't have fuel line connected, got sprayed in petrol :whistling:
OK so tank off again and pump run up in tank while tank upside down, back on bike and it primed and started and ran OK, turned off then on again and ran, although the pump sounded rough while it was priming. Left it turned off for 5 minutes and back to no priming on ignition.
You might have done lots of testing of the pump but in my experience that would still be prime suspect,I have had moisture contaminated pumps that were very sporadic, to narrow it down put a test lamp/volt meter on the pump input to confirm that when it doesn't prime there is no power present and then with a wiring diagram start looking at the possibilities ,intermittent problems can be painful
Mate, its a K7 with chipped key, have you tried your spare key?
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 28 July 2024, 04:46 PMMate, its a K7 with chipped key, have you tried your spare key?
Funnily enough I was thinking about that last night, will take the spare with me next time and try it.
Quote from: Horse on Sunday, 28 July 2024, 01:36 PMYou might have done lots of testing of the pump but in my experience that would still be prime suspect,I have had moisture contaminated pumps that were very sporadic, to narrow it down put a test lamp/volt meter on the pump input to confirm that when it doesn't prime there is no power present and then with a wiring diagram start looking at the possibilities ,intermittent problems can be painful
Will do :onya:
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 28 July 2024, 04:46 PMMate, its a K7 with chipped key, have you tried your spare key?
I don't think the starter works either if the bike can't see the key?
Worth a try though as it's an easy one.
Hooli, remember old threads, cranks but no fuel or spark. Have seen where they say Suzuki immobiliser can be turned off in ECU. Havent found proper instructions yet. I really doubt this on 14 but you never know.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 29 July 2024, 06:44 PMHooli, remember old threads, cranks but no fuel or spark. Have seen where they say Suzuki immobiliser can be turned off in ECU. Havent found proper instructions yet. I really doubt this on 14 but you never know.
I can't remember TBH grog, never having had such a modern thing.
I suspect if it can be turned off then the same Woolwich Racing kit that can remap the ECU is able to do it.
Agree Woolwich. My little car, 25 yr old Corolla, has a steel key, no immobiliser. Great car. Upgraded models in same era came with factory immobilisers and chipped keys. Now all these yrs later, electronics fail, pretty much no way to repair, perfectly good cars that are scrapped because of fucked up so called anti theft precautions.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 29 July 2024, 06:44 PMHooli, remember old threads, cranks but no fuel or spark.
Quote from: Chappers on Saturday, 27 July 2024, 08:18 PMSo quick update, it has a spark, ...
Still worth a try as it is low effort (unless finding the other key turns into a search adventure :imrgreen: )
No different with spare key. Bought a tester that connects to pos and neg on battery, took pump and fuel gauge sender out and connected them on bike, so when I put the probe on the pos terminal on the pump and turn ignition on im getting 12.8v for about 3 seconds but the pump isn't priming, so looks like the pump is toast ? Any suggestions for a replacement please.
Edit; I sprayed a load of cleaner through the pump and got it going, put it back together in tank, fitted tank and it primed 4 or 5 times then stopped priming. I've ordered a cheap one from ebay to see if that works. I take it there is a filter inside the the plastic pump housing, and am wondering if this could cause any issues for the pump if its dirty.
Pump from Quantum Fuel Systems, Model HFP-384-U
Fuel pump, done this before Andre. Original pump is Mitsubishi UC-T30SU5
Quote from: Chappers on Saturday, 03 August 2024, 07:51 PMNo different with spare key. Bought a tester that connects to pos and neg on battery, took pump and fuel gauge sender out and connected them on bike, so when I put the probe on the pos terminal on the pump and turn ignition on im getting 12.8v for about 3 seconds but the pump isn't priming, so looks like the pump is toast ? Any suggestions for a replacement please.
Edit; I sprayed a load of cleaner through the pump and got it going, put it back together in tank, fitted tank and it primed 4 or 5 times then stopped priming. I've ordered a cheap one from ebay to see if that works. I take it there is a filter inside the the plastic pump housing, and am wondering if this could cause any issues for the pump if its dirty.
The filter will just clog up I don't believe it would usually let anything through (except water) that would harm the pump.The filter media ,as long as its intact is pretty Good.
Given what you've just tried - I'm wondering if its the fuel regulator clip on the pump that's broken? That stop's 14's starting
see this for a fix https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1610.0
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Monday, 05 August 2024, 07:50 AMGiven what you've just tried - I'm wondering if its the fuel regulator clip on the pump that's broken? That stop's 14's starting
see this for a fix https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1610.0
The clip is in place and seems ok
If you have power to pump and its not working, youve found the problem. New pump :cruisin:
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 06 August 2024, 10:40 AMIf you have power to pump and its not working, youve found the problem. New pump :cruisin:
Yep, new pump arrived, fitted this morning and problem solved. I bought a £20 pump off ebay, hopefully it lasts.
Thank you to everyone who commented and offered help, much appreciated.