Hi !
I've basically always had 4 cylinder 16V Suzuki bikes, first one was a Katana that i rode daily to work all weathers all seasons
Came a point where i decided to restore and modify it to this result :
(https://i.postimg.cc/V6hRSyLH/DSC-0074.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rst9xhDy/DSC-0073.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/4dyPN4Z9/DSC-0077.jpg)
1135 EFE engine, GSXR SRAD600 fork, GSXR 1100 slabside rims, and full renovation on top of the mods
Alongside that at the end of it's career as my daily bike in and out of Paris for work, i got this GSX1100 that i then used for 2-3 years :
(https://i.postimg.cc/zv8c2Ydy/20171112-161910.jpg)
This bike got me into (and out of :whistling: ) all sorts of trouble, but such a massive bike to use :smitten:
This is now almost finished, after a total renovation, and GSXR 1100 engine and forks/wheels swap :
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHNF5MT2/DSC-0658.jpg)
Finally, my bike, the one i won't let go :imrgreen:
It's a '91 GSXR 1100, because race bike, with a home made/designed front fairing that fuses the Katana with the R, because i could. Now that was a job to do, and i can't say it's perfect but this bike is the first i've done that hasn't made me feel like i want to sell it as soon as it's finished
From this :
(https://i.postimg.cc/g0FLLGxK/IMG-20150820-170914-zps6djh0bft.jpg)
Through this :
(https://i.postimg.cc/nr5mfWxK/20170628-184752.jpg)
To this :
(https://i.postimg.cc/mhfG0Qsh/IMG_20210204_155613_170.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/TwsxJzNV/IMG_20210725_013033_965.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/PJX7tRd2/DSC-0093.jpg)
It has a 1216 cc rebore, ported and cammed head, 6 speed engine with flatslides and a Yoshimura Duplex race exhaust, goes rather well i must say :whistling:
I'm currently rebuilding it a second time with different wheels and fork and swingarm because i thought of a much nicer V.2 version so back to the workshop for a total teardown 3 years down the line
Hi Joseph, i recognise them bikes, its Tonygee from over at OSS :onya: you cant beat 4 cylinder air and oil cooled suzuki's :grin:
But this ongoing headache will be of more interest to you people :
I am building a "race" car that I intend to power with a GSX1400 engine.
Had i used a Bandit 1200, it would have been cheaper and easier, but the higher torque potential of the 1400 made me decide on that, and also i like round numbers
1400 is twice the original engine capacity of the car
Aim is 500 hp/ton, for another multiple of 2 ratio
Found this lump for 450€ :
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrFfCHDR/532171539-IMG-20220815-2258422-thumb-jpg-94814d6ea10518f5f8421b12e3b93061.jpg)
All I know is that it was removed from the bike it was in due to a bad mechanical diagnosis that made the owner buy another engine
It's got quite some mileage (approx 100K km) so i'll probably be having to open it up to refresh it somewhat.
Quote from: hard road on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:03 PMHi Joseph, i recognise them bikes, its Tonygee from over at OSS :onya: you cant beat 4 cylinder air and oil cooled suzuki's :grin:
Hey Tony. I figured you'd be roaming around these parts of the web :cheers:
Quote from: Joseph on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:10 PMIt's got quite some mileage (approx 100K km) so i'll probably be having to open it up to refresh it somewhat.
Not even run in, it won't need owt unless it's been abused & not serviced.
I've got 171k miles on mine & never been deeper than checking the valves that have never needed adjusting.
Quote from: Joseph on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:10 PMBut this ongoing headache will be of more interest to you people :
I am building a "race" car that I intend to power with a GSX1400 engine.
Had i used a Bandit 1200, it would have been cheaper and easier, but the higher torque potential of the 1400 made me decide on that, and also i like round numbers
1400 is twice the original engine capacity of the car
Aim is 500 hp/ton, for another multiple of 2 ratio
Found this lump for 450€ :
(https://i.postimg.cc/nrFfCHDR/532171539-IMG-20220815-2258422-thumb-jpg-94814d6ea10518f5f8421b12e3b93061.jpg)
All I know is that it was removed from the bike it was in due to a bad mechanical diagnosis that made the owner buy another engine
It's got quite some mileage (approx 100K km) so i'll probably be having to open it up to refresh it somewhat.
as said Joseph they are a typical tough Suzuki engine and as long as its been looked after it'll be fine :onya:
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:47 PMQuote from: Joseph on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:10 PMIt's got quite some mileage (approx 100K km) so i'll probably be having to open it up to refresh it somewhat.
Not even run in, it won't need owt unless it's been abused & not serviced.
I've got 171k miles on mine & never been deeper than checking the valves that have never needed adjusting.
Thats impressive :shocked:
I believe this engine is in good shape and was looked after. The guy i got it off was genuinely passionate about his bike, nicely done and clean with if i remember correctly a full Akra exhaust system among other good mods
His mechanic diagnosed a bad engine but it was in fact a fuel pump issue, so he bought a lower mileage lump, put it in and had the same issues.
Hence selling the original engine once they worked out the problem wasn't it. If i trust what he said I think he was the second owner and did most of the mileage on that engine.
I'm just thinking that pushing 1 bar of pressure is going to be some extra effort for a used engine, but maybe not.
Can't afford a full rebuild yet anyway, it'll get started and road tested as is when the time comes
Dropped by my Laser cutter local guy to pick up the inlet pipe base plates.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G2QgHvrY/IMG-20230919-164940.jpg)
Also pictured is the plate i had cut to remove the massive breather box thing thats the size of a dictionary.
Will need a much bigger outlet pipe though, maybe even two, due to the extra crankcase pressure it's going to get
Quote from: Joseph on Wednesday, 20 September 2023, 12:30 AMI'm just thinking that pushing 1 bar of pressure is going to be some extra effort for a used engine, but maybe not.
Sounds like a crap mechanic he went too then!
As to the boost, there's several turbo bikes on here & the FB groups. I'm not aware of any doing anything special with the bottom end unless they've also gone for 1550cc conversions.
Quote from: Joseph on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:11 PMQuote from: hard road on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:03 PMHi Joseph, i recognise them bikes, its Tonygee from over at OSS :onya: you cant beat 4 cylinder air and oil cooled suzuki's :grin:
Hey Tony. I figured you'd be roaming around these parts of the web :cheers:
You will find more familiar names on here :hat:
Quote from: Blubber on Wednesday, 20 September 2023, 02:23 AMQuote from: Joseph on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:11 PMQuote from: hard road on Tuesday, 19 September 2023, 08:03 PMHi Joseph, i recognise them bikes, its Tonygee from over at OSS :onya: you cant beat 4 cylinder air and oil cooled suzuki's :grin:
Hey Tony. I figured you'd be roaming around these parts of the web :cheers:
You will find more familiar names on here :hat:
yeah like Tonynitrous :cheesy:
Cool looking forward to this thread :)
Right. The parts I designed are back from the guy who does lathework for me.
Conversion to Bandit Ignition ECU is complete, using only this part :
(https://i.postimg.cc/FFdJ40YK/IMG-20231010-184229.jpg)
Out with the old :
(https://i.postimg.cc/qRY0whrb/IMG_20231010_185532.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vTVyNYHQ/IMG_20231010_185552.jpg)
In with the new :
(https://i.postimg.cc/B6t425rP/IMG_20231010_185659.jpg)
Bandit rotor now lined up :
(https://i.postimg.cc/WtcVRBh0/IMG_20231010_185334_HDR.jpg)
are you using a bandit harness Joseph ?
Yes, of sorts. Since this is not in a bike it needs a fully home made wiring system however basing that off a bandit/gsxr harness will make that job much easier
I think I recall a 14 chop years ago on the old Org that used carbs. If the thread still existed it'd be useful to you. It was lost years ago though.
Any idea if the advance curve on a Bandit matches a 14? I can't imagine they'd be radically different.
That could be worth a look.
I'm guessing, in view of the specs, which are pretty close (slight HP and torque advantage for the 14 obviously) that the curves needed must be close ?
In essence, using the Bandit management equipment should hopefully simply create a maxi big bore Bandit 1200 ? (+245cc :lol: )
The carburetor rack is almost back together, i built it up more or less in order to confirm by how much i needed to extend the choke plate.
(https://i.postimg.cc/mghbzzn5/IMG-20231010-183943-HDR.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/cJ264M4h/IMG-20231011-123737.jpg)
Also carb nº2 needs an extension for the butterfly control to reach the master carburetor
The Bandit spacing of the outer pairs aren't an exact match to the cylinder ports, so i only spaced out the center pair, but i should be able to get away with it. It would have taken a lot more machined parts (and money) to move the two pairs in by 2mm, didn't seem necessary since the rubber on the spigots will have some play, and would have been quite a hassle
An the spigots are also pressed into the base plates, ready to get welded :
(https://i.postimg.cc/yNkkHrBW/IMG_20231011_123205_HDR.jpg)
Also a guideline to how much i can port the intakes, which will improve engine breathing
Just can't beat nice machined parts ... superb :hat:
All the best ... Barry
Indeed, i've found a good guy to make the stuff i can't :onya:
Here's the full intake tract setup and plenum base, that now all needs to go to another guy who knows how to TIG weld alloy
(https://i.postimg.cc/8Pcx1Ytg/IMG_20231012_100531.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/HkGgxZQV/IMG_20231011_141740.jpg)
Just awesome stuff Joseph. :hat: My only delve into that stuff, years back, fitted side draught Webber to Norton Commando.got rid of awful Amals. Had to cut frame etc but was great result, at least as could be on a Norton.
Broadly speaking, the carburetor conversion is done
(https://i.postimg.cc/6qf1D4vf/IMG-20231020-142339.jpg)
Mock up installation of plenum base in order to angle the intake pipe so that it clears things like the oil fill cap.
Well pleased, of course it's not fully finished and then the jet settings will no doubt cause some hair loss but a big step has been achieved
Would be a bit of a pain to have to take the plenum off to add some oil :cheesy:
So strange to see carbs on a 14, it looks fantastic ... looking forward to hearing how it all goes :clapping:
All the best ... Barry
nice job Joseph, well done :onya:
Looks really good, suits it i reckon👍
A bit of a headache solved.
Obviously running a propshaft straight off the gearbox meant that i no longer had provision for the clutch slave or the speedo sensor.
After sorting out the prototype (tracing out the engine case screw dimensions), i selected a car clutch slave that i hope will work enough, and also set the tab for the speedo
(https://i.postimg.cc/qBDR1psK/IMG-20231103-160242-HDR.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DZ8ZTDF0/IMG-20231103-161338.jpg)
Welded (by me :whatever: ) and back from the powdercoater today
And on the car, with the flange adapter replacing the sprocket, and the laser cut ring i designed with the sensor points on it
(https://i.postimg.cc/tChgpF03/IMG-20231103-162024-HDR.jpg)
Awesome work mate.
Keep us posted please 🙏
Youre a magician Mate. :notworthy:
Thanks :salute:
Another little piece of kit was finished, this is a classic on bike engined cars, nothing new here, but it allows the gear linkage, which will be push pull inline with the car, to be converted to follow the gear linkage on the bike, since the engine now being longitudinal in the chassis, is rotated 90 degrees in relation to the gear stick travel
Right one goes to the bike engine, the left one goes to the gear lever
(https://i.postimg.cc/Dz2D8JC4/IMG_20231104_130657.jpg)
Joseph, maybe something to help? Tripod been building bike engined cars for a long time. https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.tripodcars.com/&sa=U&sqi=2&ved=2ahUKEwjE84ewoqyCAxVLr1YBHay4BRsQFnoECBcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3zxFAxoUtLRgHvqGULgJAF
Just love that GSX1100 Joseph
I'm back !
Haven't given up (yet) :grin:
Jobs done or one the way :
Bought the turbo :
(https://i.postimg.cc/LXStRbH4/IMG_20240420_111519.jpg)
Holset HE221W is definitely a current trend. It spools quick and is good for up to 350HP
The plenum is finished :
(https://i.postimg.cc/Nj2jm70W/IMG-20240603-175053.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/WbH4dfsG/IMG-20240603-174928.jpg)
However I'm very disappointed in myself, there are load of things wrong with it so it'll need redoing unfortunately :sad:
I converted the PAIR caps into a turbo oil catch tank :
Brass spigot tapped in for the vent :
(https://i.postimg.cc/fL5bNrJB/IMG-20240601-143716.jpg)
I hand filed an alloy sandwich plate because it needed to be increased in capacity a bit, and also provide substance for threading/screws. Because the caps are identical, if flipped over the holes don't line up, had the caps been symetrical i could have flipped them over top to bottom and could have just bolted them together
(https://i.postimg.cc/CKT5H83H/IMG-20240601-143730.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/DzrZCZFV/IMG-20240601-143943.jpg)
Done :
(https://i.postimg.cc/KjvR3yd6/IMG-20240601-144054.jpg)
Oil entry on the top + vent, oil exit on the bottom, drawn by a mechanical scavenge pump i'm currently sorting out
Alongside that i've been busy on fitting the turbo and the exhaust system post turbo
(https://i.postimg.cc/mDDq1VL9/IMG-20240622-095048.jpg)
Thats almost done. Onto the header after that (bit more of a complex job)
A Toyota MR2 intercooler is also getting modified to suit the layout :
(https://i.postimg.cc/rsHh9Dxf/Screenshot_20240619-142619_2.png)
(https://i.postimg.cc/zvvtWCbL/Screenshot_20240619-142628_2.png)
That's all for now :imrgreen:
Never missed you :stir:
But that is because i visit the other Suzuki forum too ;)
Looks very interesting, just thinking about the motor turned that way, these lumps are supposed to be hanging out in the wind, this one is sideways, so, even with good airflow, back cylinders won't get anywhere near the same cooling effect of the wind as a bike or indeed the windward cylinder. :onya:
Good point. It is indeed not ideal but i think that as long as it doesn't get stuck in traffic it shouldn't do too badly, originally the car has a big NACA duct on the front to guide air to the water radiator (now absent of course), the GSX cylinders are inline with that flow.
The oil coolers (two of, parallel fitted) will not be in the engine bay or close to the engine, also a cylinder head oil cooler is going to be installed, so hopefully the running temperature should do okayish i hope, if the oil itself is kept in check
Not sure how i can measure the differences in the point that you mention, but as far as helping goes, maybe adding a duct from under or somewhere via a tube to the back cylinders? Not much room to do that but maybe i can come up with something
Could you add more twist to the duct so it hits the engine from the side? Then an exit duct sucking out the other side?
Well as it stands there is no pipe, the duct is 30-40cm wide in the middle of the car below the windscreen.
It goes straight into a vertical waterfall type drop where the original water radiator goes, sitting just in front of the fan > waterpump > engine.
I've ripped all the factory stuff out, so it's going to go : duct > "chute" > intercooler > GSX engine side fins/cylinder nº1.
But I might be able to fit an air pipe from an auxiliary NACA duct, from the side of the car directly to the back two cylinder area
I'm mostly thinking that uneven cooling across the barrels could result in the hotter cylinders overheating with your configuration. I guess as you've gone to carbs you could run the rear two richer to help, like people used to do with the middle cylinder on Triumph/BSA triples. But that's always seemed a bodge not a fix to me.
Yes that indeed could be an issue waiting to happen. Can't knoW until it's tested on the road though, if i can get air easily to the rear i'll just do it straight away before i get it driveable
I know for a fact that the first watercooled GSXRs standard have bigger main jets on carbs 2 and 3, not sure about the oil cooled ones but I guess it's possible they do too
I didn't know that about GSXRs, but it makes sense for the same reasons.
Joseph, my 14 always runs cool, even on our extremely hot days rarely shows over 80 degrees. Maybe an electric fan behind barrels?