Hi Guys..
Some assistance needed.. I'm getting error code C28 and the engine is revving its twat off when I first start then the revs drop and the FI light flicks up. The Error points to secondary throttle valve actuator (STVA) but that appears to be functional and doing its job. It does the ignition on sweep as it should so I'm at a bit of a loss.. TPS SEEMS ok and the valves are all synced as they should be..
Any ideas?
Update.. I think it may be the STP sensor.. the ohms it should be reading in the manual isn't even close.. should be 800 closed and about 3.9 open.. but I'm getting 270 to 310.. barely moving.. hmmmm guess I'm posting in the sales and wants section.
Sounds like you found the source of your FI light blinking :onya:
I get the confusion since a faulty STPS should be error code C29, not the C28 you get.
Based on your reading on the STPS it's almost dead and therefore needs replacement.
You'll need part 16 - part no 13580-42F00.
or... you can get a complete used set of body's on ebay incl the TPS, STVA and STPS - money wise almost the same.
Yep, thats what i recon.. this is the problem with errors such as these error 28 is secondary throttle valve actuator but it only thinks that because its not getting the correct reading from the sensor further down the line.. so it took about an hour to trace where the actual fault was.. I say 'I' in all this, but its more 'my mate' lol
Anyway, off to the wanted section i go to see if anyone has what i need.
sorry i cant help jay but have you checked Robinsons for part numbers to see if same part fits other bikes
surely gsxr 1000 or 1250 bandit might be the same and lots more sold so more choice
good luck buddy
I know I harp on this but magnets in the STVA can come loose thus stopping proper operation. A simple test is to reach under the throttle bodies & make sure the choke shaft pivots freely before looking for sensor problems.
Quote from: Snapey on Thursday, 16 March 2017, 05:19 AM
I know I harp on this but magnets in the STVA can come loose thus stopping proper operation. A simple test is to reach under the throttle bodies & make sure the choke shaft pivots freely before looking for sensor problems.
Checked over ALL moveing parts bud. All move freely.. The most irritating part is that the ignition sweep work flawlessly. So the error code didnt make any sense.. The actuator itself is working but the sensor just isnt readint the open position so it throws up massive revs. then the ecu says oi, thats not right and shuts it off throwing up the C28 error..
Thats what we figured anyway.. I am suprised however that noone else has suffered this.
Lost me then ... good luck with your search.
curious but what work have you done recently on bike in throttle body area ? have you had them off?
Quote from: Proteous on Thursday, 16 March 2017, 07:05 AM
Quote from: Snapey on Thursday, 16 March 2017, 05:19 AM
I know I harp on this but magnets in the STVA can come loose thus stopping proper operation. A simple test is to reach under the throttle bodies & make sure the choke shaft pivots freely before looking for sensor problems.
Checked over ALL moveing parts bud. All move freely.. The most irritating part is that the ignition sweep work flawlessly. So the error code didnt make any sense.. The actuator itself is working but the sensor just isnt readint the open position so it throws up massive revs. then the ecu says oi, thats not right and shuts it off throwing up the C28 error..
Thats what we figured anyway.. I am suprised however that noone else has suffered this.
I too have just suffered the same C28 error code and have been following this thread with interest.
Doesn't seem to make any difference to how the bike starts or runs and as has previously been mentioned I have checked for free movement of the choke shaft.
I'll check the STP sensor when I get time but in the meantime I have purchased a used set of K7 bodies complete with all sensors etc, for what appears to be sensible money, (£169 against over a grand new!), bearing in mind sensors are best part of £100 or more depending on which one is needed.
Question is, do I replace the whole assembly or just the part/parts I may need?
For the record, I am now running individual pod filters but doubt that caused the error as nobody else with pods seems to have encountered the same problem and this isn't the first run out since fitting them.
if they off a running bike
fit complete and then balance the throttle bodies
you can then swop your buts over till it fails then you find the problem.
other wise you might chase your self for long enough
good luck
Nice way to find the error Seth, very good! :clapping:
Quote from: bigian14 on Tuesday, 04 April 2017, 05:19 AM
Quote from: Proteous on Thursday, 16 March 2017, 07:05 AM
Quote from: Snapey on Thursday, 16 March 2017, 05:19 AM
I know I harp on this but magnets in the STVA can come loose thus stopping proper operation. A simple test is to reach under the throttle bodies & make sure the choke shaft pivots freely before looking for sensor problems.
Checked over ALL moveing parts bud. All move freely.. The most irritating part is that the ignition sweep work flawlessly. So the error code didnt make any sense.. The actuator itself is working but the sensor just isnt readint the open position so it throws up massive revs. then the ecu says oi, thats not right and shuts it off throwing up the C28 error..
Thats what we figured anyway.. I am suprised however that noone else has suffered this.
I too have just suffered the same C28 error code and have been following this thread with interest.
Doesn't seem to make any difference to how the bike starts or runs and as has previously been mentioned I have checked for free movement of the choke shaft.
I'll check the STP sensor when I get time but in the meantime I have purchased a used set of K7 bodies complete with all sensors etc, for what appears to be sensible money, (£169 against over a grand new!), bearing in mind sensors are best part of £100 or more depending on which one is needed.
Question is, do I replace the whole assembly or just the part/parts I may need?
For the record, I am now running individual pod filters but doubt that caused the error as nobody else with pods seems to have encountered the same problem and this isn't the first run out since fitting them.
I vaguely recall that there are some minor differences between the earlier model throttle bodies and the later ones - no idea what they are, Snapey pointed it out - but on the old org, and he now can't recall quite what the differences were as it was some time ago. Whether in practice they make any difference to the running of the bike - no idea.
Suppose try and test and see what happens - why not
EDIT: Here's where I read it - see the 5th thread down.
K1 bodies different, (not sure in what way), K2 to K7 listed as exact same part number with Robinsons Foundry as are all the ancillary components.
If I find it is the STP sensor I may just change that over or maybe even fit a new one and keep K7 throttle bodies as spare or move them on.
I'll let you know how it goes, they're being delivered tomorrow but realistically won't have time to work on bike until Friday at the earliest, possibly Thursday night.
I have seen this error on a bike I had to diagnose ....the owner took off the secondary sensor ,cleaned it out and lubed it again ....then refitted it .then he got the code issue not long after ....when I looked at it I noticed that the sensor was putting pressure along the spindle ...because the ecu actuates the motor ,it also monitors the energy used to activate it ...and I tell you that it doesn't take much for it to throw a code.....so if your spindles in secondary are not in sync that can cause a resistance as well when they are actuated in normal running
as for throttle body synchronising this will only help response down below and make engine smoother ....tps set at 1.1k (this has to be accurate)with tickover set at 1200 rpm ....the secondary sensor and the tps inconjuction with each other should amount to a certain voltage ..its in the manual ,cant remember ...
also a very high idle starting can be down to a bent arm on the fast idle actuator so check that ,it doesn't take much
ps difference between throttle bodies is the fuel rail ones alloy ,tother is metal I believe
Well i can confirm with zero doubt that my STVA sensor had died. The measurments between open and closed were in the 10s not the 1000s and that is like miles out.
Mine started as a slow death process with the odd FI light now and again until eventually complete failiure whcih meant the bike was unrideable.
I purchased new K1 Bodies and just swapped the sensor, all fixed... While there gave her a bit of a service, new plugs, ballenced boddies and just generally cleaned shit up.
Good stuff :onya:
Right chaps, just took off seat and tank in preparation to change throttle bodies and just found out I'm a complete numpty.......... :doh:
On closer inspection and checking secondary throttle (choke) shaft I noticed that it wouldn't turn very far before one of the adjuster screws fouled on one of the pod filter jubilee clips, (thread f***ed on original clamp hence why using jubilee clip).
Hopefully by slight adjustment of said clip all will be resolved quickly.
If that's the case then there will be a good set of used K7 throttle bodies going for a sensible price if anyone's interested
Now if you had read my previous thread about this you would have known to check for that in the first place.. :imrgreen: :stir:
Quote from: Proteous on Thursday, 06 April 2017, 04:51 AM
Now if you had read my previous thread about this you would have known to check for that in the first place.. :imrgreen: :stir:
Yeah yeah I know LOL
I checked movement previously with tank on so couldn't see screw hitting clip and wasn't exactly sure how much rotation there should be.
Oh well, a lesson learned and experience gained :whistling:
Isn't it odd that experience never comes cheap :facepalm:
Quote from: bigian14 on Thursday, 06 April 2017, 04:54 AM
Quote from: Proteous on Thursday, 06 April 2017, 04:51 AM
Now if you had read my previous thread about this you would have known to check for that in the first place.. :imrgreen: :stir:
Yeah yeah I know LOL
I checked movement previously with tank on so couldn't see screw hitting clip and wasn't exactly sure how much rotation there should be.
Oh well, a lesson learned and experience gained :whistling:
You 2 can get matching T/shirts made: "been there , done that " :imrgreen:
thanks for sharing. It will help people.
Ive got a STPS issue as well.
Here is part of the conversation with the mechanic.
"I have removed your secondary plates but the shaft has to stay. Yours goes through all the right motions, doesn't get stuck
The mechanic has replaced the STPS and the STVA even though my old ones tested ok. Also tried with butterfly paddles removed, no difference.
I have have even removed the plenum to take it back to a STD bike and still have the error, Checked the side stand switch, check valve added, wiring harness checked, changed out throttle bodies with a different motor. I'm trying the same guy to see if i can get a complete ecu and dash setup to try. We have tested the wiring, The pins at the ECU, even replaced a set of throttle bodies with all the sensors from a running bike with out the issue, tested the resistance of your secondary motor through its cycle and it tests ok.
we have tested the wiring, ecu and the STVA, every things seems to work and is adjusted as per the factory specs. it just as soon as the stva operates we get the error,"
Sent ECU to Holland for fault diagnosis, repair and tested ok.
Everything operates as it should. STVA actuates at start up and moves as engine warms up but the STPS still throws up an error code.
He has run out of things to test.
Any thoughts
@alfadave ? He even disconnected the Supercharger and set back to standard. It's only been 5 months off the road :furious:
If everything tests out OK and even known working parts are throwing up the error then it can only be a wiring issue or a corroded plug issue (those plugs are crap). According to what you have said, you have litterally elliminated EVERY issue that could be causing it. But i am not convinced its not a wiring issue.
One question, do you have a Power Commander fitted or something similar as i am told these can cause the ECU to throw these errors. :confused1:
Yes
@Proteous, I have a PC3 USB fitted and the dyno guy is absolutely stumped as to why the fault keeps showing up.
Does it show up when its unplugged?
Not Sure. I have suggested to the mechanic to test the PC although I would have expected him to eliminate that as a cause after having the bike for 5 months.
He has put the bike back to standard to see if the fault would go away but it hasn't.
The only thing left, that he cant put back to standard, is the Intake air temp sensor that screws into the right side of the air box.
Thats because the standard plastic air box has been removed and replaced with a custom aluminium one.
The intake air temp sensor now is screwed into a separate aluminium box containing a boost sensor, which is connected to the vacuum line and dump valve.
I should find out tomorrow if the pc or Air temp sensor are faulty.
It's a real brain teaser!
Bump.. Any outcome on this?
The Good news is they found a broken wire in the harness between the Intake Air temp sensor and the map sensor. No more FI fault codes. Yippee!
The bad news is it looks like my PC3 is stuffed. Every time you turn the key off then restart the bike the fuel is too rich down low. Under 2500 rpm.
Doesn't matter how many times he leans it off then re-tunes, it keeps going rich after turning the ignition off.
On advice from Dave Gamlin I'm on the hunt for a PC V for a GSF 1250F 2010 model.
Hopefully that will sort all my ails out.
So if anybody has a PC V for the above mentioned Bandit and would like to part with it, I'm in the market. lol.
They've done a PC v for the 14 now & auto tune module.
Really?
I emailed Dynojet head office in the US over night and and they told me there was no PC5 for the GSX1400. only the PC3 usb.
They also strongly advised against using a PC5 designed for any other Suzuki but then I suppose they just want to cover their arse if something goes horribly wrong.
The old "can't blame us", "we told you so' scenario.
Who has the PC5
@KiwiCol ? I'll go order if its correct.
Cheers!
@INSTG8R I read it on here I think, or online somewhere.
Here's the pdf of the install
http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/20-056/install/pcv/engI20-056.01.pdf (http://www.powercommander.com/downloads/20-056/install/pcv/engI20-056.01.pdf)
Here's the link to PowerCommander site with the listing of PC V. They discontinued PCIII for GSX1400.
http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommander.aspx?mk=21&mdl=182&yr=1100 (http://www.powercommander.com/powercommander/powercommander.aspx?mk=21&mdl=182&yr=1100)
Cheers.
Before you throw out your PC3, you could try removing the small rubber O ring from the PC3 plugs and see if it will then hold a map.
I bought a PC3 which was giving some F1 faults, it turned out that one of the sockets had lost tension, I bought some replacement sockets with plans of changing them out but
by chance the O ring got damaged when I used some contact cleaner on the plug. The fault stayed away for 6 months once the O ring was removed. Removing the O ring allowed the pin and socket to pull up a little tighter which fixed an intermittant open cct joint.
Taking the O ring out if you travel in lots of bad weather is probably not advisable but may be a good starting point for some fault finding.
@KiwiCol Your The MAN!!!
Forwarded the page link to the mechanic. Looks like they make a PTi unit as well. WooooHooo.
Thanks also
@RickC . From what I have been told the PC3 uses an analogue signal while the PC5 uses a digital signal as well as it has a PTi input directly for Boost pressure with forced induction bikes.
So it looks like an upgrade anyways.
Thanks to all for your help.
As soon as the old girl is running sweet I will be sure to upload some photo's, video, Bhp/ Torque specs.
No prob, you're welcome.
Quote from: INSTG8R on Thursday, 25 May 2017, 11:18 AM
Really?
I emailed Dynojet head office in the US over night and and they told me there was no PC5 for the GSX1400. only the PC3 usb.
I had come across the link regarding PC5 for the 14 a week ago. Nowhere to be had in Germany either.
Either the dealers want to sell the PC3s they have in store first or there is only a limited supply of the new PC5. Or whatever. Luckily Powercommander sells them directly.
I am not in the market for a PC as I live in Germany where they are illegal on public roads. In case of an accident you are in for big trouble, regardless if you are at fault or not. Real sticklers, the german officials and insurers.
Well i can confirm the PC V is available UK side as my guys are installing one for me.. You see, i bumped this as i am in a similar situation my bike has been with in the shop for over a month and they are struggling with it. Turns out they were trying to install a duff PC III so they are fitting the new PC V and see what happens then.. I should know more tomorrow hopefully.. How ever, i am on holiday for a week as from tomorrow.
pc5 for 2010 Suzuki bandit 1250 is straight forward retro fit ,injector plugs just need connecting rather than a simple grey plug fix like gsx1400 pc3 ..on supercharging gsx1400 you change plugs to suit busa injectors..over fueling down below is due to high flow rates of stock busa injectors
Gidday Alphadave, nice to see you pop in.
Sorry for jumping on an old post, but I've been reading everything I can regarding this very issue. Had the broken magnet issue (all glued back in place). Can anyone tell me if the STVA should perform a full sweep when the ignition is turned on (mine definitely isn't doing so)???
Regards
Pete