I fitted HEL hose to rear brake. Have bled it 50 times, vac sucked, tapped both unions many times, undone both unions to bleed. Still cant get good pedal. Have done this before with original hose, took no time. WTF do i do next? Im thinking caliper off, get it above master cyl height is next,not sure how i can do that, works on some cars, Subaru specially. Any other clues fellas.I know many say rear brake not necessary, rode it with bad rear, just not right for me.
Is it to do with the routing of the hose I wonder? You know, how it goes down & up through that bracket on the swingarm, maybe a bubble stuck there.
Maybe raise the rear of the bike way up so the caliper is higher than the master, it may move to the caliper that way. Raise the front up & the bubble rises to the master?
I put braided on mine & I think they went ok, was a while ago though.
Try reverse bleeding
From caliper up... syringe full of brake fluid pushed thru the bleeder
Don't make a mess at the top
Check the other nipple at the rear of the caliper. When I refurbished mine, I plumbed it all up, left the rear nipple open and pumped from the brake lever until fluid cane out. Close the rear and repeat for the front nipple. Then bleed again as per normal.
Never had a problem bleeding brakes, except when the master needed a rebuild.
My K7 and K5 have always had crap rear brakes.
My rear brakes are pretty good..
BUT
I ALWAYS use the rear in combo with the front, so it doesnt get seized..
A few times now various MOT testers have commented that my rear brakes are good on various bikes i have owned.
S.
I've never had a problem bleeding the rear on mine either, gravity from the master is often enough with the nipples left open a bit.
Since a few years ago when I drilled a nipple out badly I take the caliper off & just watch till fluid starts to fill the hole I redrilled & helicoiled (where the nipple should be) and threadlock the cut off bolt I use instead back in.
In your place I might be tempted to put the original hose back & try it, it could be a dodgy new hose I guess.
as been said, reverse bleed, works every time.
I had this and it was a lazy piston. Removed caliper and fitted a complete new set of seals and the rear brake went from meh to much more positive. SO could be you need a new set of seals
@grog The only other thing worth trying beforehand is lifting the caliper off and after putting a thin piece of wood in-between the pistons, pump the rear brake pedal to "grab" the wood. You can then move the pistons from one side to another to clean off any crud that may have accrued and stuck like a ring at the top of the piston (where it mates with the caliper top) - even though I kept my 14 meticulously (ridiculously!) clean, I still found rings of crud building up every 2-3k miles which seemed to "slow" piston travel. Generally after cleaning, it was "up to power" again.
IMO the positioning by Suzuki of the rear caliper (being upside down) is pretty poor as its just begging to fill with crud and detrius which causes them to clog up. That aside, the actual movement of the piston in the caliper is very minimal, hence why the crud builds up as well.
I dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
I'm always surprised about discussing the rear brake on a GSX1400. It has always felt very wooden to me in standard trim. Braided lines made a difference. Then a petal disc improved it a little more. Sintered pads improved it a little more. So in a nutshell, I had become so used to not using the rear brake, that I don't, unless it's an emergency or a very steep descent. The front brakes are pretty decent and improved with the above measures. One of the things I enjoy is the lack of ABS and/or traction control on these now considered OLD SKOOL bikes. My BMW RT has all the bells and whistles of a modern bike and I never complain about that.
Riding the GSX is a sensory experience and there is a lot of feel required to get one humming in the mountains. :hat: :hat:
It amazes me the amount of bikes with under slung calipers, at least the last of the old Meridan Bonnies came out with a top mounted caliper... :stir:
I find that regular lubing of the pivot mount of the rear brake pedal makes a big difference on how the rear brake works on my 14.
Yeah Mate, i didnt think i used rear brake until rode other day not working. Seems at slow approaches to intersections, traffic lights etc i do, kept feeling for it. About only times i missed it. Reckon ive only done a half job, will pull caliper apart, shouldve done that. Clean pistons, check seals etc.
I use it more when Mrs T250 is on the back, trying to keep the bike more level when braking.
I don't understand you lot that don't use it much, I always find my 14 feels more stable when braking if I use both. Especially with luggage or a pilly.
FWIW, I use mine a lot, feel the same as Hooli in regard to stability & control using both. Just my 2c worth.
I use my back brake a lot as well, good in town, traffic lights, car parks, on gravel and setting up for fast corners, it just helps the stability.
Fast corners & applying brakes doesn't compute.
Quote from: GSXKING on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:21 PMFast corners & applying brakes doesn't compute.
Trail braking, yeah it does. It's not like we're on a race track or anything.
A slight braking action (even if just rolling off the throttle) dips the front, compresses the forks & reduces the effective rake so turn in is faster.
Makes sod all difference on the road really except feeling nicer as you ride it.
:stir: :stir: :stir:
As many different riding styles as there are riders.
Downunder we have windy roads close by ie Brisbane has Mt. Glorious :cheers:
Having or not having ABS makes bugger all difference 99+% of the time.
I ride two bikes that are very similar, one has Bosch smart 6-axis IMU, ABS brakes. The other has no ABS. ABS like most tech makes bugger all difference on a normal day. It's just like insurance, it's there when things go wrong. I'm not sure why some folk don't like ABS, if you find it noticeable and it's coming on then you're doing something wrong.
GSX14's rear brake is OK. Nothing special but it works and does as much as I want it too.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 01:34 PMI dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
@Speedy1959 there is - but how its done I don't know. There was an engine tuner on the old (original) org called grumpy who apart from tuning engines (particularly Busa) used to modify frames a tad and I seem to recall that he fitted a Busa swing arm to a 14 and that had the caliper mounted on top rather than below. Now - whether he had to modify to fit or re-align chain run, I have no idea. But I have seen it done
@Tony Nitrous you have some Busa's - in your opinion would this be possible?
I just want mine working again, no idea if i trail brake, i doubt it. I didnt even realise i counter steered, someone mentioned, i took notice, seemed had always been my normal. Things you learn , amazing.
Quote from: GSXKING on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:37 PMMt. Glorious
(https://i.ibb.co/qWBCz3r/61200-AB0-4-B13-46-AE-89-BE-6-A8-CBCE99-E7-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nnrBTNL)
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:39 PMQuote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 01:34 PMI dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
@Speedy1959 there is - but how its done I don't know. There was an engine tuner on the old (original) org called grumpy who apart from tuning engines (particularly Busa) used to modify frames a tad and I seem to recall that he fitted a Busa swing arm to a 14 and that had the caliper mounted on top rather than below. Now - whether he had to modify to fit or re-align chain run, I have no idea. But I have seen it done
@Tony Nitrous you have some Busa's - in your opinion would this be possible?
Can't see any real dramas.
Looking at mine...
Gen-1 Busa, GSXR1100... underneath with a torque arm.
Gen-2 Busa, Gen-3 Busa, B-King, all above but none use a torque arm. Caliper mount runs in a slider on the swingarm.
Can't see why not. As long as the caliper and mount sit right on the disc the only fab work would be a mount to the swingarm to take a torque arm on the top side of the swingarm.
Seems to me a lot of stuffing around for bugger all gain.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 07:09 PMSeems to me a lot of stuffing around for bugger all gain.
.
Agreed, it wouldn't be high on my list.
If I was building a special, using a Busa type arm to do a monoshock conversion etc then it'd be the way to go, but I ride and work on Busa's with both over and under rear calipers and it's no big deal. Both do their jobs without a huge difference.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:39 PMQuote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 01:34 PMI dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
@Speedy1959 there is - but how its done I don't know. There was an engine tuner on the old (original) org called grumpy who apart from tuning engines (particularly Busa) used to modify frames a tad and I seem to recall that he fitted a Busa swing arm to a 14 and that had the caliper mounted on top rather than below. Now - whether he had to modify to fit or re-align chain run, I have no idea. But I have seen it done
@Tony Nitrous you have some Busa's - in your opinion would this be possible?
easy enough job, you could use a rear calliper from a GS500 as they sit on top, you would have to weld a bracket to the top of the swinger for the torque arm though.
Quote from: hard road on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 07:42 PMQuote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:39 PMQuote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 01:34 PMI dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
@Speedy1959 there is - but how its done I don't know. There was an engine tuner on the old (original) org called grumpy who apart from tuning engines (particularly Busa) used to modify frames a tad and I seem to recall that he fitted a Busa swing arm to a 14 and that had the caliper mounted on top rather than below. Now - whether he had to modify to fit or re-align chain run, I have no idea. But I have seen it done
@Tony Nitrous you have some Busa's - in your opinion would this be possible?
easy enough job, you could use a rear calliper from a GS500 as they sit on top, you would have to weld a bracket to the top of the swinger for the torque arm though.
Using the 14's caliper mount casting?
Caliper sits right on the disc?
Quote from: Tony Nitrous on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 08:10 PMQuote from: hard road on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 07:42 PMQuote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 06:39 PMQuote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 29 June 2023, 01:34 PMI dont suppose there is a way of mounting a caliper (from another bike model) in a "non upside down way" is there ?
My Previous CB1300 had this and the that too had a conventional swing arm!
@Speedy1959 there is - but how its done I don't know. There was an engine tuner on the old (original) org called grumpy who apart from tuning engines (particularly Busa) used to modify frames a tad and I seem to recall that he fitted a Busa swing arm to a 14 and that had the caliper mounted on top rather than below. Now - whether he had to modify to fit or re-align chain run, I have no idea. But I have seen it done
@Tony Nitrous you have some Busa's - in your opinion would this be possible?
easy enough job, you could use a rear calliper from a GS500 as they sit on top, you would have to weld a bracket to the top of the swinger for the torque arm though.
Using the 14's caliper mount casting?
Caliper sits right on the disc?
the 1400's calliper hanger looks the same as the bandit 1200 (but i need to measure it) on the bandit you just swing the hanger to the top and bolt the GS500 calliper on, the only difference between both callipers it the mounting holes are at different sides. one for top and one for bottom. :onya:
I obviously use my rear brake a lot, when I ride the likes of the Oxley before I get to Gingers Creek from Wauchope end I can stand on it and there's nothing there. Thought it was a 1400 thing but when I did it on my FJR same thing happened.
I can actually lock my rear wheel if I try!
It doesn't happen easily or accidentally ( I wouldn't want it to), but it can be done.
I don't think I'm looking to weld and fabricate a top mounted rear Caliper.
Just wondered if there was a simple "bolt on" solution, a bit like the front Caliper alternative.
S.
Mine is/was a great rear brake. Never locked it up but had great stopping. Hopefully tomorrow will bring it back to normal. Caliper off, apart, clean, reverse bleed. Cant believe i forgot about reverse bleed, guess i a am old. :grin:
rear brakes on modernish bikes aren't meant to be to powerful for a reason, last thing you want in an emergency is the rear wheel to lock up !!!! look back at some older bikes and they had a very long brake pedal so all that leverage could lock up a rear brake !!!!!!
My 1976 RD400 locks up real easy the lever is about a foot long, not much engine braking in it either.
My rear brake works a treat, never had the feeling that it's not doing it's job.