I'm in the UK, South West and took the bike to a local ish place for a ride in suspension set up. I've got Hagon Nitros on the rear and the guy basically said that they were cheap Chinese junk with a Hagon sticker on, and I'd be better off with the original units. They also didn't have me sit on the bike at anytime during the setup. I'd like some opinions on this please as I was going to use them to fit my Yoshi cams but this has made me think twice. If anyone knows anywhere down south worth taking the bike to please let me know, cheers guys.
There is a VERY well respected Suspension guy not that far from me ( Ingol near preston ) who ALWAYS sets the suspension up with the rider sitting on the bike..
He services a lot of Race teams and is 2nd to None!
I had Hagon Notros on a Honda CB1300 I used to own..
They are totally made from Stainless Steel (even the springs).
Ive done a Google search and it seems they are a respected BRITISH company..
The only mild criticism I can find is that the springs are stiffer than the standard ones.
I would agree with this.. I remember finding that on the Honda CB1300
I looked on several forums and there are many positive comments on how you can talk directly to Hagon themselves and have custom shocks made if you say, are a Beefy Dude or carry a pillion / luggage regularly.
I smell "sour grapes" from your "Expert".
PS What shock is he trying to sell you ?
S
got to agree with speedy, Hagon have always had a good rep as far as i know.
Hopefully I am allowed to show the link..
This guy is a wizard..
https://twsuspensiontech.co.uk/
S.
Some people talk bollocks - seems you have found one.
I have Hagon Nitros and top quality :)
All Hagon products are assembled in the UK, and the vast majority of components are also sourced right here in Britain. Hagon might not be offering high-end shocks, wheels and suspension. Nevertheless, it's all good quality stuff, very competitively priced with a two year unlimited mileage guarantee.
He said I'd be better off getting originals refurbed, or I should have a shock with the piggy back like the original, Guess I'll have to find somewhere else, Preston is a bit too far.
Just fitted a set of hagons (the ones with piggy back unit on) to emmas bike and they are great .
As speedy says the springs are a little hard but ive adjusted them a bit .
I have a very expensive set of W.P. shocks one one of my bikes and a standard set in the other and the w.p.'s look and feel amazing but i ride the bike with the standard shocks just as hard and carry the same luggage in either bike without any problems .
Sounds like youve met a salesman not a suspension expert to me
Quote from: Chappers on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 04:39 AMI'm in the UK, South West and took the bike to a local ish place for a ride in suspension set up. I've got Hagon Nitros on the rear and the guy basically said that they were cheap Chinese junk with a Hagon sticker on, and I'd be better off with the original units. They also didn't have me sit on the bike at anytime during the setup. I'd like some opinions on this please as I was going to use them to fit my Yoshi cams but this has made me think twice. If anyone knows anywhere down south worth taking the bike to please let me know, cheers guys.
@Chappers "the guy" is talking absolute bollox, Hagon are a very respected company and Nitro's have been a unit of choice by 1400 owners for over a decade.
JHS Racing have a good reputation for suspension setup (Bristol way) - not too far from Warminster either (about 25 miles?)
https://www.jhsracing.co.uk/motorcycle-suspension-services/
Ideally... Suspension should be set for the rider. Preferably on the bike in his gear but even the shop that did mine when it was in for work wanted to know about weight and solo/pillion etc.
A good suspension guy with want to have a chat, ask you about your riding style, touring or scratching, lazy or aggressive, how much of each. Suspension set for a 75kg rider isn't ideal for a 100kg rider with a Mrs who's been in the pie shop. Same as someone doing hour after hour on the motorway doesn't want peg dragging knee down suspension.
Set the suspension for the bike, and set it for the rider.
It's a black art, two guys of the same weight that cover the same piece of tarmac at the same rate, but one is a deep, late braker and the other is a high corner speed guy need totally different set ups to get the best results, very hard to convey that info to someone else when you don't understand what you actually need yourself, with a std type set up set everything in the middle and make minor tweaks either way to see what feels right for YOU, fat bastard like me, set for 2 up to start and work backwards
Quote from: steve porter on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 09:15 AMIt's a black art, two guys of the same weight that cover the same piece of tarmac at the same rate, but one is a deep, late braker and the other is a high corner speed guy need totally different set ups to get the best results, very hard to convey that info to someone else when you don't understand what you actually need yourself, with a std type set up set everything in the middle and make minor tweaks either way to see what feels right for YOU, fat bastard like me, set for 2 up to start and work backwards
Yes, as I said riding style plays a part as much as weight, annd where you ride etc. A good suspension guy will want to know that.
I'm know just enough about suspension to know that I don't know anywhere near enough about suspension! I've set up a few and thought they were OK"ish" and better than I started with, but any that have been professionally set up were always noticeably better.
Chappers I Just had a nasty thought..
Where did you get the Hagons from?
They weren't a "too good to be true" bargain price off eBay were they?
One can never rule out Chinese copies of just about anything these days!
To be fair they did ask my weight etc, shocks were already on the bike when I bought it and I don't think the last owner was the kind of guy who would buy cheap off ebay. It was JHS that I took it to.
When suspension bloke did mine, very easy process. Rebuilt forks n shocks, Wilbers springs in front only mod. Checked and adjusted with me off and on bike.Works just fine for me, have never touched adjustments since. When i first got bike tried adjusting myself, all those recod settings,did my head in, ended up so confused, just time wasting.Prob best thing ive done,got help.To me now its like there are no adjusters, just how i like it.
Quote from: Chappers on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 04:21 PMTo be fair they did ask my weight etc, shocks were already on the bike when I bought it and I don't think the last owner was the kind of guy who would buy cheap off ebay. It was JHS that I took it to.
Wow surprised and disappointed in JHS then. No doubt the "guy" was trying to sell you a set of Ohlins or similar.
Only other shop (and GSX1400 owners in the past have used these guys before with great results) is Steve Jordan motorcycles in Surrey, but it is about 100 miles each way from you
http://www.stevejordanmotorcycles.co.uk/
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 06:01 PMQuote from: Chappers on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 04:21 PMTo be fair they did ask my weight etc, shocks were already on the bike when I bought it and I don't think the last owner was the kind of guy who would buy cheap off ebay. It was JHS that I took it to.
Wow surprised and disappointed in JHS then. No doubt the "guy" was trying to sell you a set of Ohlins or similar.
Only other shop (and GSX1400 owners in the past have used these guys before with great results) is Steve Jordan motorcycles in Surrey, but it is about 100 miles each way from you
http://www.stevejordanmotorcycles.co.uk/
I think it was the boss, looks like he had a nasty leg injury in the past, also told me how poor the BT023 were that are fitted !!!
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I think it was the boss, looks like he had a nasty leg injury in the past, also told me how poor the BT023 were that are fitted !!!
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His attitude is explained simply -He must have had Hagons on when he crashed :)
Quote from: Notty on Saturday, 24 June 2023, 06:17 AMSome people talk bollocks - seems you have found one.
LOL Notty..
I do like your sense of humor
I think it was the boss, looks like he had a nasty leg injury in the past, also told me how poor the BT023 were that are fitted !!!
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His attitude is explained simply -He must have had Hagons on when he crashed :)
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I like that :rofl2: but that's not all, he also criticised the original brake callipers, they're shite too even though they've had a complete refurb by PowerhouseUK, and the same about the Pazzo levers, i kid you not.
I wouldn't go near the place, how could you trust your bike to someone like that? The guy is a complete asshole, & won't be in business long with an attitude like that.
He sounds like an utter bellend to me.
I'm sorry I've come to this a little late. I agree that suspension is definitely a "Dark Art". There are suspension only shops around and word of mouth drives most of their business. I'm sure if they get a bad wrap it circulates quickly.
Now, I've only ever had standard shocks and rebuilt them when required. I'm lucky I have a local guy "RADS" normally only does industry work i.e. for bike shops only. Last service he said everything had worn out or perished so it was basically a new set of shocks. I checked the sag of bike, then with rider and I get roughly 35 mm. As I've gotten older :confused1: my settings have become more plush. I ride most of the time with Bobbie as pillion and she has never complained about the ride feel.
I've probably spent the equivalent of a new set of aftermarket shocks over these 21 years, although I have no complaints about the standard shocks.
I have said many times a GSX1400 will do a bit of every style of riding more than adequately. :cheers:
I've used RADS for my bmw shocks, top service, very knowledgeable.
I contemplating on a new set of rear shocks are Ohlin's any good, an old mate of mine is a technician for them and I know he will say the rest are rubbish.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 26 June 2023, 10:51 PMI contemplating on a new set of rear shocks are Ohlin's any good, an old mate of mine is a technician for them and I know he will say the rest are rubbish.
I had saved up for Wilbers shocks (Typ 633 Competition S Blackline). Ohlins were a no-go for me because I don't like their color scheme :whatever: Price
were very much the same. Emphasis is on were because now, 2 years later, the Wilbers are 325 € (1800€) more than Ohlins.
When I was ready to buy I started looking at YSS shocks (RG362-335TRCL-07-X). I really liked the easy availability of all parts necessary for a rebuild. Just 2 services and I got the money (525€) back I paid for them, nitrogen setup, and rebuild kits (even though it is not necessary to rebuild them every service). Made a couple calls to their R&D Europe for some technical questions. Experience was pleasant. They were very forthcoming with information.
Final decision to go the less expensive route was helped by the posts of a former Superbike mechanic (1990 - 1993 with Honda, 1994 - 2000 Suzuki). He claimed that he knows a bit how a suspension ought to function. His take was that the YSS build quality is surprisingly high and the shocks respond very well to the various settings.
He says that the Wilbers and Ohlins are likely better than the YSS and if you want to spend the money on them you are doing the right thing. However, his riding ability and the charakteristics of the GSX1400 on public roads preclude taking advantage of Wilbers and Ohlins.
He also used the same fork springs (Wilbers progressive) and fork oil viscosity as myself. He also had the same rider weight as me. So I copied his settings for fork and YSS-shocks.
I made 3 modifications to the shocks:
1. heavy duty bearings (imo more suitable for the bike/rider weight class).
2. higher rated springs (30+ € a pair). Now the same rate as the offically (Germany) certified ones for the 14.
3. covered the piggies with 3M wrap film (glossy black) as to not offend my eyes and cater my unwillingness to advertise.
I paid particular attention to the proper (imo) alignment of the shocks.
I never had a near perfect (imo) tire wear as now.
I don't know anything about the Hagon shocks. Above is intended to show that less expensive shocks can be a more than adequate alternative to Ohlins and Wilbers.
Top man Andre! :onya:
As usual Andre, very good. Wilbers progressive in my forks, such a good change. Ohlins piggy backs, reckon they are around $2700 Australian. That is serious stupid money, Wilbers hardly any better, if at all. So glad my rebuilt stockers are good enough for me.
I'm always surprised people upgrade the suspension so much on 14s, I've never had a problem with the stock stuff.
The xgayr ohlins I had for years where too soft and bouncy though.
Guess it depends how you ride and what you're used too.
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 27 June 2023, 07:36 PMGuess it depends how you ride and what you're used too.
Hooli is right ;)
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 27 June 2023, 07:36 PMI'm always surprised people upgrade the suspension so much on 14s, I've never had a problem with the stock stuff.
The xgayr ohlins I had for years where too soft and bouncy though.
Guess it depends how you ride and what you're used too.
A set of (proper) Ohlins would be more than I paid for my bike.
Then I'd need to do the front, the brakes, the tyres, the tank and engine cases, the noisy 3rd gear...... it'd start a chain reaction I can't afford. :happy1:
Exactly... to me the standard stuff is good enough for the rest of the bike, it's never going to be a super stiff race frame for precise handling after all.
Quote from: Tony Nitrous on Tuesday, 27 June 2023, 08:26 PMA set of (proper) Ohlins would be more than I paid for my bike.
Then I'd need to do the front, the brakes, the tyres, the tank and engine cases, the noisy 3rd gear...... it'd start a chain reaction I can't afford. :happy1:
I can't deny a chain reaction - but it is very controlled. Going on in the 8th year of ownership and only the devil's grandmother might know when it ends.
Quotethe noisy 3rd gear
???
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 27 June 2023, 07:36 PMI'm always surprised people upgrade the suspension so much on 14s, I've never had a problem with the stock stuff.
The xgayr ohlins I had for years where too soft and bouncy though.
Guess it depends how you ride and what you're used too.
Mr Hooli,
Is it fair to say you dont really "connect" with the yamaha version of the 14?
:laugh:
Don't they go up in price with the piggy back things on them, but then they probably not proper one's suitable for the boy racers.
I once paid big bucks for Marzocchi shocks for GS1000,that was expensive mistake. No travel, stupid air over gas set up, prob one reason i keep stock on 14. Bought shocks then more dollars to buy little pump to suit.They were terrible.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 28 June 2023, 07:37 AMQuote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 27 June 2023, 07:36 PMI'm always surprised people upgrade the suspension so much on 14s, I've never had a problem with the stock stuff.
The xgayr ohlins I had for years where too soft and bouncy though.
Guess it depends how you ride and what you're used too.
Mr Hooli,
Is it fair to say you dont really "connect" with the yamaha version of the 14?
:laugh:
Tbh never tried one but if they are setup as soggy as their fake ohlins I wouldn't like it. I can't recall if they run a different shock angle, more vertical would stiffen them up compared to mounted on a 14.
I like XJR. Great quality. Good brakes. Very planted front end, reckon they sit on road better than 14.Nowhere as good looking. IMO. Id have one no probs.
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 28 June 2023, 05:54 PMI like XJR. Great quality. Good brakes. Very planted front end, reckon they sit on road better than 14.Nowhere as good looking. IMO. Id have one no probs.
My mate has a Yellow 2004 XJR which he offered to do a straight swap for the bike I have now!!!
I nearly swallowed my dentures!!
I bet hed do a straight swap..
Errr Noooo thanks !
I bought my first 1400 a few months ago. Its had a few owners over the years and the front shocks have got a seized compression adjuster on the front left, on the back it came with Hagons. This bike is mainly for me and the wifey going out two up. My other bike is an R1, had it 20 years and done over 45k on it. Suspension on that was upgraded at MCT Suspension and has been fantastic.
However going from the R1 to the 1400 is like chalk and cheese! With the Hagon rear, overall the quality feels fine, it only has 3 preload settings and in the middle preload setting it feels best for solo riding. It really needs the harder preload setting for two up when the suns out, you can feel it bottoming out when riding with spirit catching a bump on a corner. On full hard preload, there is zero static sag and I really struggle to get the bike up and off the centre stand. I believe Hagon would have supplied a spring for the purchaser, I've no idea who that was, but if it was the guy I bought it from he was about 6 inches taller than me and a good few stone heavier! I think Hagon's would be better for me with a more suitable spring as there is nothing else that can be adjusted.
At the moment I'm enjoying riding it as it is, might look into some upgrades in the winter but enjoy it as it is for now.