Hi all
So I have had my bike in with Motrac Race Engineering this last week and have had a custom map done, the difference is noticeable from idle all the way through to the top end, power delivery is smooth all the way and my rough idle has been cured, she was far to lean at idle which has been sorted and the results are 108hp with my standard set up other than twin Beowulf end cans, which is not too bad
My question is, my fast idle is not currently working despite everything being in spec, will this be due to the rise in ambient temperature at the moment? It was 18 degrees here at 9am this morning and the bike lives in a garage which again is pretty warm at the moment
I don't want to start tinkering again if this is normal so any views would be appreciated
Thanks
Pete.
I wouldn't worry about it too much just yet if the bike starts good.
At the moment my fast idle is barely a fast idle and then it only lasts around 10 seconds max from cold..
I am assuming its due to the warmer weather now..
S.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Sunday, 11 June 2023, 02:38 AMAt the moment my fast idle is barely a fast idle and then it only lasts around 10 seconds max from cold..
I am assuming its due to the warmer weather now..
S.
Yep, that's what is does on the upsidedown part of the world too, now it's a bit cooler it runs for about 15 sec before it's back to 1100. I wouldn't worry about it Pete, the bike has been tuned & sorted, so leave it be would be my recommendation.
They could have adjusted the start up fueling so there's no need to have the fast idle come in?
Thanks for the replies much appreciated
I'm sure that it will work once the temperatures get back to normal, if there is a normal any longer! It's just one of those that I would like to know if it is working or not, there must be a way of fooling the ECU to test it, but will think about that again
The fueling has definitely been adjusted at idle, looking at the map file adjustments it seems the bike was quite lean low down but quite rich at higher revs, starts first push of the button and runs at approx 1000 rpm then takes approx 30/60 seconds for the revs to get up between 1100 & 1200 rpm
Thanks again
Pete
Will, works for 30 secs at my current around 12 temps, Summer never does. All good Mate.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 11 June 2023, 06:38 PMWill, works for 30 secs at my current around 12 temps, Summer never does. All good Mate.
Thanks Grog, that's pretty reassuring all should be good :onya:
all bikes are set up as lean as possible from the factory so they need choke (fast idle) richer mixture to start, but yours as had the mixture richened up so won't need it like a standard 1400.
From memory of reading the workshop manual the fast idle is a two stage process. 30 secs of increased revs and two mins slightly increased. There's a couple of trigger points based on temp which I can't recall.
Mine does much the same as yours, which is good as I've had to setup the fast idle stuff recently after having the TBs totally in bits.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Sunday, 11 June 2023, 06:24 AMQuote from: Speedy1959 on Sunday, 11 June 2023, 02:38 AMAt the moment my fast idle is barely a fast idle and then it only lasts around 10 seconds max from cold..
I am assuming its due to the warmer weather now..
S.
Yep, that's what is does on the upsidedown part of the world too, now it's a bit cooler it runs for about 15 sec before it's back to 1100. I wouldn't worry about it Pete, the bike has been tuned & sorted, so leave it be would be my recommendation.
They could have adjusted the start up fueling so there's no need to have the fast idle come in?
@KiwiCol you are spot on there. I had the PC disconnected yesterday while I was tinkering & started the bike, the cold start kicked in straight away, reconnected the PC and tried again much later in the evening and no cold start
I have now made a copy of the custom map and reduced the fuel changes at 500 to 1500rpm only at throttle position zero and this evening the cold start kicked in with the custom map, I only changed the fuel to the standard zero setting at these increments
This got me thinking, if I was to change the same settings to minus numbers at throttle position zero from 500 to 1500 rpm would this fool the cold start into kicking in when the bike was warm? I was originally under the impression that the cold start only worked inline with the ambient temperature, but not so sure now?
Pete
Cold start is mostly based on the oil temp rather than ambient temp.
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 18 July 2023, 07:30 AMCold start is mostly based on the oil temp rather than ambient temp.
@Hooli thanks, Ah right I see, do you know how and where the oil temp is measured & I'm guessing that the ECU must be preventing the cold start from functioning with the richer mixture in the custom map then?
I'm still trying all sorts to find the cause of the bad running issue I have, even after getting the custom map done I still have a bit of a running issue. I can replicate it now and it always happens at 60mph in 5th & 6th gear at a tad under 3000rpm - crack the throttle wide open and the bike stutters for a few seconds then pulls like hell again, not a nice feeling mid bend or when going for an overtake! I have pulled most of my hair out trying to cure this, almost at the point now where I am about to give up and get rid, last week I had decided enough was enough but had another think and have decided to give it one last push to try and fix before selling :frustrated:
The oil temp sensor is behind the barrels, just by that Y shaped oil pipe. It's got black and black/white wires from memory. The wiring goes up the side of the airbox to a plug next to the frame tube.
Mine failed without causing a code, but it was giving a resistance about 10x higher than it should so my bike was mega rich. There's values in the workshop manual to test against.
I assume you've tried unplugging the clutch switch when the bike is running? I've seen the springs in the fail so the bike stays on the starting map. When that happened to me mine would cough before it went if given a handful.
Reckon Hooli might have a good idea, clutch switch.Easy to check, sit with bike in 1st gear, as you slightly pull in or let clutch lever out slowly, you can hear/tell different mode kick in, at least can on mine.
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 18 July 2023, 06:02 PMThe oil temp sensor is behind the barrels, just by that Y shaped oil pipe. It's got black and black/white wires from memory. The wiring goes up the side of the airbox to a plug next to the frame tube.
Mine failed without causing a code, but it was giving a resistance about 10x higher than it should so my bike was mega rich. There's values in the workshop manual to test against.
I assume you've tried unplugging the clutch switch when the bike is running? I've seen the springs in the fail so the bike stays on the starting map. When that happened to me mine would cough before it went if given a handful.
@Hooli thanks again for the information, I fitted a new clutch switch last year - supposedly a genuine Suzuki item. I did have a look at it a bit closer this evening and one of the wires going into the spade connector didn't look the best so chopped them both off and fitted new terminals, just to tick that box
One thing I have noticed, with the ignition on but the bike not running if I pull the clutch lever in, then let it out there is a small sound from the pump in the tank as if its getting a signal, I presume that this is the way it should be :confused1:
I will try and get the oil temp switch out tomorrow & test to see what readings I get, possibly easier said than done, looking at its position it may me fiddly with my shovel sized hands :undecided:
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 18 July 2023, 06:22 PMReckon Hooli might have a good idea, clutch switch.Easy to check, sit with bike in 1st gear, as you slightly pull in or let clutch lever out slowly, you can hear/tell different mode kick in, at least can on mine.
Thanks @grog i'm presuming that you mean with the bike running from cold?
No need to remove it, just measure the resistance at the connector up by the airbox.
I'm pretty sure there's a measurement for 20c in the workshop manual so that's close to know if it's giving a reasonable figure.
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 19 July 2023, 06:52 AMNo need to remove it, just measure the resistance at the connector up by the airbox.
I'm pretty sure there's a measurement for 20c in the workshop manual so that's close to know if it's giving a reasonable figure.
Have just been reading the manual, there are a set of resistance readings from 20c up to 110c so will do as you suggest and take it from there, The thing is peeing me right off at the moment, worse of all I can ride around the problem by dropping a gear or two on hard acceleration but I see that as avoiding the issue and will always have it in my head that its not quite right :thumbs_down:
Thanks again for your input, much appreciated
Will, warmed up, just play with clutch lever, i can tell mine changes tune.
and mine.
When you're sitting at the lights waiting, (or in your driveway) with the clutch in (engine running of course) just let the clutch out a wee bit at a time, no revs, & you'll hear and see the revs increase as it changes maps, ready to ride off. Been ages since I even took notice of it, but reckon it's probably only 200 - 300rpm increase, but it's noticeable.
My Black & my Blue both do it, so it's not colour dependant. :stir: :whistling:
Pull the plug off clutch switch and have a ride, difference is amazing on mine. I once did as experiment.
So tonight's adventures, tested the resistance of the oil temp sensor, 63K Ohms with the engine cold, ran the bike for 10 mins and measured the resistance again and it was 17K Ohms so that seems to be OK
While I had the LHS panel off I cleaned the contacts on the remainder of the plugs that side, I then removed the headlight as there was a bit of a vibration rattle from something in there, found nothing obvious but while I was in there opened each plug and gave a decent dose of contact cleaner, all but one plug were like new, a minor bit of corrosion on the one but not enough to create any issues
Started the bike and no change to the running (as expected really) other than after idling for a minute or so she cut out and stopped altogether, no FI light showing and restarted straight away, maybe me being over liberal with the contact cleaner is what I have put that one down to
So that's me running out of things to check and change, maybe take the injectors out tomorrow and get them tested/cleaned but did that a couple of years ago so not holding up too much hope with that
I also seem to have adopted a horrible metalic rattle at 2000rpm now, just to add more fuel to the fire! Sounds like top RHS of the engine but hard to pin point it, could be clutch area. Tried adjusting the idle to 2K revs so I could do some listening and finding but it stops after a few seconds so have to keep throttle on and off which I'm sure was pissing the neighbors off as much as me!
I think the time is fast approaching to throw her in against something else, this really annoys me as I love the bike & I seem to have grown a conscience and wouldn't want someone else to buy the bike and adopt the problems
Pete...
Well I have removed the injectors and had them tested, cleaned and retested all OK, refitted them this afternoon and no change to the poor running
I have bought a set of used throttle bodies off ebay & was going to start removing the original ones this afternoon to fit them, but had a bit of a brainwave to compare the new set with the original set, low and behold the fast idle or cold start screw on the original set had been fully wound in, so although very crude I know but I counted the number of threads exposed on the new set and replicated this with the original set, started the bike & the cold start kicked in straight away, the revs then settled after 15/20 seconds and the bike appears to be idling much smoother than it ever has in my 5 years of owning the bike, will take it for a run tomorrow evening to see if this has cured the hesitation (had had a few beers by this time)
I may be on the correct path now at long last, although I am a bit skeptical as I tested the voltage for the cold start a couple of weeks ago and it was bang on, although turning the adjustment screw a full rotation in both directions had no effect which was a bit strange
Here's hoping the fault is fixed, at the turn of a screw in the end! :doh:
Will, what happened to your metallic rattle noise?
Good job, so you've now got a set of throttle bodies for sale. :whistling:
Quote from: grog on Monday, 07 August 2023, 07:37 AMWill, what happened to your metallic rattle noise?
Still there at around 2000rpm and seems to disappear when the engine is warm, so thinking possibly valve clearances need checking again although they were OK when I checked last year or even cam chain rattle but not slack enough for the adjuster to move up a notch?
I started the bike from cold when I got home from work this evening, the cold start kicked in but the revs went up to 2500 rpm when first started then dropped to approx 1700 rpm, so wound the fast idle screw in half a turn & will see what happens tomorrow evening when starting from cold
I am just glad that this seems to be having some affect as nothing else that I have tried has made any difference, to the point where I think she will be staying now so has been cleaned and polished and brought back to her shiny best! :grin:
Pete
Quote from: Mick_J on Monday, 07 August 2023, 08:06 PMGood job, so you've now got a set of throttle bodies for sale. :whistling:
Not just yet Mick but possibly in a while to try and recoup some of the money I have paid out trying to get her sorted!
Pete
Quote from: Will14 on Tuesday, 08 August 2023, 05:23 AMor even cam chain rattle but not slack enough for the adjuster to move up a notch?
Adjuster contains a spring which may have lost its springiness over the years.