Umm, helloh guys I'm here again. Or well not here, cos I havn't been here before but at the previous... ...ah, you get it.
...sooo, I've got a big bore gsx as well, those who remember the topic from the previous place you know but let me recap what I've got:
K7 GSX 1700 with 12t km in the clock
Renthal bar
Brembo radial brake and clutch masters with folding short lever kit
Renthal aluminum 40 teeth rear sprocket
Robinson 17 teeth front sprocket for 30mm driven axle
BSR brake and clutch hoses
GSXR 750 -06 USD front end with B-king radial calipers
Custom ordered Traxxion front springs to accomodate the weight of the GSX
Custom made billet extenders for the gsxr USD front end for proper ride height
GSXR 1000 -07 frontwheel
Carbon fibre mudguard
Hugger
LSL GSXR 1000 -07 upper triple with risers
LED rear light
Kellerman mini-Led blinkers
OverSpeed Racing adjustable footpegs
LSL crash bobbins
Just Bandits 35mm jack-up kit
Modified rear mudguard
Aftermarket mirrors
So thats pretty much basic stuff, nothing that special there. And then the engine:
Coerce front sprocket guard
full Yoshi drain
PC-3
Yoshimura Stage-1 cams
Re-sleeved 89mm bore cylinders by Motospeed
J.E Pistons
Carillo conrods
Machined engineblocks to take the bigger cylinder group (machining by Ape's metalworks)
Nova 30mm heavyduty driven axle from dragrace Busa parts
APE Raceparts cylinder studs and nuts
APE Raceparts mechanical camchain tensioner
Valve head ported and measured
Motogadget RFID ignition lock
HEL oil cooler
STPS/STVA delete kit
PAIRS blocking kit
There. So thats kinda basic bigbore stuff as well I suppose... ...the whole project started because of the 2nd gear issue in the first place. I got it fixed (thats a long, sad story actually) and when I got the engine back I got some 2000 km's and it was back. So I did what I should've done in the first place - fix it my self. I took the gears and got them race/under cutted, scored a bit heavyer driven axle and swapped them gear selector tubes to shafts.
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Ff5242e62334f5cd3bc3a86effe532865%2Ftumblr_oa97lq4yRC1va6rxno8_1280.jpg&hash=0ead5b2b7ed50f789b7b3c70a397472f044cc513)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F966daf605b3d4a00f94cb2bc1344b943%2Ftumblr_oa973mwIkC1va6rxno7_1280.jpg&hash=2e672b9c70093975a50948cdd8a6a3dc66530824)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F055a5d7938de1c9d45bc3c0a3b53a8d4%2Ftumblr_oa97lq4yRC1va6rxno10_1280.jpg&hash=17039f05028a8e08efa4ebe7f769ed54ba43660a)
And at that point I started thinking that now that the gearbox is bulletprooved, I just might go for a couple of ponies more. And asked where to get a big bore kit. Now the answer was 1550 at the time and there were several of them (like Maggys beastie) and I didnt want to copy what everybody else had done. So here we are now...
I've changed the electrics to k3 ones to get rid of some stuff and to simplify others. I'm still running the oem throttle bodies as I had to get the bike on the streets but thats now on the task list. The bike runs pretty darn good but I'm having issues with oil - looks like it's leaking from somewhere but it might be the breather - I have a blocking plate where the oem breather box should be and a breather hose at the oil cap. I've got a oil catch tank coming so that might solve part of the problem, other is the left side HEL oil cooler line that is for sure leaking.
So small tinkering in sight mechanical vise, and the clocks... ...I kinda swapped my mint clocks to a crashed unit as I was to rig up motogadgets miniscope, but to be honest the GSX looks a bit empty with out the clocks casings. So I've to fix the crashed unit and maybe upgrade it a bit while I'm at it :rolleyes:
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fc7114bb0979fdd68a9fe3e6751457a42%2Ftumblr_oc4ldcUtrF1va6rxno1_1280.jpg&hash=f501ab7139d0c78033d9ec15597ddb8248a4a9ed)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F105ed837212b99f1a2d8e4b69c5612a4%2Ftumblr_oblx1lF7hJ1va6rxno1_1280.jpg&hash=b8f8d5bcef9eb72cf67aa1fae54234fcf5f8c0d1)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fac80d835f6f3a6c804e0f1bdf5114e57%2Ftumblr_oabsloL7Ub1va6rxno1_1280.jpg&hash=7b7460be4b5b41e3332196584ac26c1198ce2428)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2F538c5089d41b0aa0272f689a85f430a7%2Ftumblr_oa981pvY341va6rxno2_1280.jpg&hash=d7ad8ead30ca73ede0ac10c59725620f130d201b)
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F68.media.tumblr.com%2Fd498ee2e63c5c08e905c01b189cdffd9%2Ftumblr_oa97svo4sL1va6rxno5_1280.jpg&hash=4fa459f9d1065ed2c8cb132ab1b299fb4d37fdc1)
Good to see you back onboard BlackAdder :onya:
We love pics on here :grin:
Thanks!
I've got all of them, or most of them pictures anyways at http://addertuning.tumblr.com (http://addertuning.tumblr.com) if someone wants to take a peek.
I've been laying low with the bikes for a while as if someone remembers my bike garage was way too far from me when I moved out of town. My own garage is still under construction (read - used as a cold storage for everything else than motors) and it took some time to find a warm garage in decent range. And as it's pretty darn cold in here during the wintertime my focus has been in four wheeled vehicles, partly because I had to (to keep them running) partly because I want my 4x4 running before next autum.
Now this bb engine build might have gotten a "bit" out of control considering that I was supposed to fix only the gearbox, but it wont happen with the truck. I'm just gonna swap the front axle and throw a locker in there. And the rear axle too. Oh yeah and couple of winches. And engine + gearbox too... ...so I've to change the electrics because of the engine and a lift kit would be nice... ...but that's it, nothing fancy... :imrgreen:
I just love write-ups like this BA, love what you and others can do to these machines. Fantastic. :notworthy:
Thanks.
Maybe it's kind a sort of stubbornes more than what can be done - there were people stating that 1700 cant be done and it seemed to be more of a challenge at that time. ow Boris beat me to get the thing running, but maybe I'll modify this thing a bit more in the future, when everything else (the cars mostly) is sorted out.
One thing that I missed in the mods listing was the emulator circuit to get rid of the STVA error code:
dZLTRXHvg8U (//dZLTRXHvg8U)
And during august I managed get to the track as well, a short run but still:
l8VwTODn_Oo (//l8VwTODn_Oo)
I'd like to do things to my GSX14 similar to my Bandit..
BUT..It's my every day commuter bike and I know if I went down that route I wouldn't want to get it dirty..So unfortunately until I get a much bigger workshop and another GSX14 it's not going to happen :evil:
This is my rough idea of what I'd like to do....
YESSSSS, I like that. Instapower at all time, a bit of spondo...
...you've got to Nike it!
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpurposeguide.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FNike-JustDoIt.jpg&hash=39e311c15322c3e1297af4b7350e2d38c73718e5)
Quote from: BlackAdder on Saturday, 11 March 2017, 09:32 AM
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpurposeguide.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FNike-JustDoIt.jpg&hash=39e311c15322c3e1297af4b7350e2d38c73718e5)
:onya: :onya: :onya:
Cool stuff in there :smoke:
Hope to see it one day, in the flesh when mine is up and running :devil:
Wow, that's a stunning looking 14 Froudy :smitten:
Ookkayy, so: got them gsxr throttlebodies fitted finally. Didnt want to run and played the c28. Aparently the modulator board I did dont work with older ecu for some reason. (I tested it with the k7 electrics, but it might be that there's just something wrong with my circuit board, not that I would admit it tho).
So this week I've been mostly fiddling ewith them darn stva's and sensors. I tried to use the gsxr actuator but that didnt work as it turns the wrong way, and its smaller - I suppose it uses different amount of current. The neat thing with it is that the stps is mounted straight to it so I mixed gsxr and gsx stva's to one that I can bolt to the throttlebodies as a dummy. But it still turned the wrong way as the sensor sees it so I flipped the power supply and ground for the sensor and the c28 was gone.
And that was good as I had booked dyno time for friday, and we are leaving on sunday for a road trip.
The dyno? Well yeahh, I was a bit nervous, and after that a bit disappointed. Now the dyno is one of the most strickt around here. Anyways the fuel pump doesnt deliver, it runs out of juice around 5500rpm (coincidently that was also the max horsepower rpm...) and the tuner said that there's at least 20hp just missing for my setup. The figures, at the backwheel 141hp and 158Nm. Hmm yeah, that wasnt actually the final dynorun figures as we ran out of fuel. Pretty pleased for the torque and we'll see the "real" figures after I have fixed the minor problem with the fuel delivery. And overheating issues. A small oil leak and fitted a lambda sensor threads to the exhaust.
And the c28 came back - annoying to ride. Checked all the values for the sensor, checked the stva, changed the wiring loom for the injectors and it's still there. Next thing is to check the wiring loom from the injector harness plug back to ecu. I mean, it should work...?
Cool progress report!
Nice to hear it didn't explode. ;)
Fuel pump issue can be fixed.
There should indeed be more horses hidden in there... Hope to be able and tell you my results in about 18 months. :onya:
Quote from: BlackAdder on Sunday, 23 July 2017, 04:53 AM
... The figures, at the backwheel 141hp and 158Nm...
If I'm correct, your engine is 1691cc, which is ~20% more then stock. And your bike have 141RWHP, which is 29-34% more than my stock engine with full Akra (depending what dyno correction are used on your numbers - SAE or DIN). And you telling there is ~20HP more...
Not bad at all! Similar with stock Hayabusa with much higher torque and on a lower revs. :clapping:
Will be very interested to know, what will be the finale numbers, when you will manage the fueling.
Quote from: northern on Monday, 24 July 2017, 04:42 AM
Quote from: BlackAdder on Sunday, 23 July 2017, 04:53 AM
... The figures, at the backwheel 141hp and 158Nm...
If I'm correct, your engine is 1691cc, which is ~20% more then stock. And your bike have 141RWHP, which is 29-34% more than my stock engine with full Akra (depending what dyno correction are used on your numbers - SAE or DIN). And you telling there is ~20HP more...
Not bad at all! Similar with stock Hayabusa with much higher torque and on a lower revs. :clapping:
Will be very interested to know, what will be the finale numbers, when you will manage the fueling.
Think you are going higher than that hp as mine 1550cc got 168hp and 160mn of torque on the rear wheel, and your one had 141cc more +bigger trottle housing, i dont remember if you changed valves coz there is the last restrition to get over. I stopt where i am at the moment, but i was very close to order the valve change to my bike :cool: but i stop't.
I like how it is now you dont need to change down gears if you run easy and if you want to get a higher pace you just do that :imrgreen:.
Cheers Maveric
Okay, I just got back from our Euro-tour: Sweden, Denmark, Germany (our cabin was at Adenau, we could see the Nürborgring from there) France, Switzerland, Italy and back. We did the "Route des grandes Alpes", effin epic roads and scenerys there. The gsx came back in one piece but I did have some issues.
The Hel oilcooler hoses leak and thats the main leak. And combined with movement all the oil spills to the rear tyre. No wonder that it felt a bit slippery every now and then. Actually every time when I got my knee down the rear end was sliding. And the oil consumption was insane. Yes it leaks a bit from the cylinders as well (as Maggy had he's doubts at the previous forum) but that is fixable.
Wide open throttle - it burns oil. A blue cloud is present when opening the throttle. Might be a busted (or fail installation) piston oilring, insufficient crank breathing, leaking valve stem seals or all above combined.
The engine is jerky, every time opening the throttle it's kinda on or off. I think that it might be fixed just by adjusting the TPS slightly.
I lost pover to instruments, indicators, rear light and brake light. It was burning fuses and I thought that the harrness to the front light might be the issue. The electrics died when: turning the lights on, pulling the clutch and when turning the handle bars left, very irregular. The fault was a broken zip tie and the wiring loom hanging on the engine under the tank. The wiring loom had taken so much heat that 3 wires were exposed and when the engine was hot enough they would short. A bit of electric tape and we were on the road again.
There aint that many riding days left here so I suppose I'll be just adding oil every now and then, and come winter I'll try to score a bigger oil cooler (I'm open for suggestions) and change the hoses. And now I'm again thinking about the Busas ECU...
...oh, and I found the reason for the c28 - altho the STVA does the initial sweep, it aint doing rat's ass when the engine is running. Now that is some what weird but theres something wrong with the actuator it self. At the mean time there's half of the original throttle body assembly zip tied in front of the battery compartment fooling the ECU, and it seems to work (altho it's not even close to what I want but...)
Does anyone remember the oem number for the audi 80/100 fuel pump? I have it some where safe the part number, so safe that I cant find it :D
E: dont fit a /50-profile front tyre in the gsx, especially if you run shorter front shocks or jack-up kit at the rear, it is horrifying to ride. The front is nervous, it starts to wobble if you let go of the bars at ~90km/h, and it's wobbling all the time at +200km/h. Terrifying experience I'd say. The reason why I fitted less than adequate profile front was that that was the only thing I got my hands on a 1 day notice. After the dyno it just hit me that I cant go to the cold alps with street legal race slicks as they are pretty sceary slippery when they are cold and/or when it's wet (I had used Diablo Supercorsas fitted under and whilst they are awesome grip wise and for handling when warm, theyr not so much grippy when cold...)
My fuel pump is from Audi A6 1.8T and 2.4 (Motonet 28-1441, 89,90€). Fits straight, only electrical connectors must be changed.
And about that bigger oil cooler: with bigger oil cooler would be good idea to use some kind of thermostat.
I will fit a Mocal thermostat to my 14, because it is running too cold in cold weather and in nice cruising use. With std. cooler.
Okay, I'll be heading to the closest Motonet then, if it works in your setup, it most definetly will work on mine too.
Yeah, mine runs wayy too hot for some reason. The oil temp after the power run was closer to 200C (it was running lean, it played the c28 and one sparkplug gave up at the same time) but still too hot. I should actually monitor the running temps whilst driving, it might be totally different when the engine is running as supposed to. Took it for a ride yesturday and I noticed that the jerkyness is even worse now, maybe the throttlebodies are out of sync or the spreader axle I made between 2&3 TB is giving up, or the TPS is out of range. Anyways it's annoying.
And the thermostat aint that bad of an idea altho there should be some kind of diverter valve in the oil system if I remember right - when cold the oil should not get to the cooler, at least not all of it.
@BlackAdder What about your 1700 build? Long time no posts...
Well, long story short - the beastie is a bit more of an ass than a beast :D
I've had some problems with the clutch. First it grabbed too hard for couple of days and after that it started to slip. So IT was in the garage for... ...well too long as the better friction plates seemed to be sold out everywhere. Had my vacation in between and still no clutch parts so I ordered the one that I could get my hands on.
I pulled the clutch cover couple days back and to my surprise the old ones didnt seem that bad, but I changed them anyways. I didnt have calliper at that garage so I couldnt measure the thickness but I did assume that they might be worn out, 20 thou (km) in the clock anyways allready. Actually might be more.... ...anyways, 70km ride, no problems at all and the next morning I got 10 meters from the parking lot and the clutch was gone totally - didnt engage at all. So for the first time I had to get my van to pick up the beastie. Back to garage and pulled the clutch cover and clutch to find out that the clutch basket nut had come loose (again). So the was nothing wrong in the friction plates after all - no wonder they seemed to be in pretty good condition..
...ok, same 70 km ride back and the next morning there was a small puddle of oil underneath the bike. Yupp, the clutch cover gasget had had it so that was the next thing to fix. In the evening I went for a ride with a friend and the bike started jerking and stuttering on hard accelerations. Or it got worse. I had a pretty good idea what was wrong - fuel pump was going. It has been jerk every now and then but now it got very bad Soo now theres a high volume Walbro in place and it delivers. A LOT. Actually a bit too much - it runs so rich that it wont revv over 3000ish. And that's a guestimation as my tacho died this morning as well...
So now I'm trying to find a guy that would weld titanium so that I could get a lambda-sensor attached to the exhaust so that I could take it to the dyno. As soon as possible of course. And yes, should have done it way earlier but I've had some personal stuff going on...
And the worst oil leak is gone now, I ordered hydraulic lines to replace the HEL ones and it has helped a lot. I also added another crank breather line witch helped a bit as well, but I suppose it's still insufficient - need bigger hose there.
Hope you solve all issues, and really waiting dyno results :onya:
Good luck!
Quote from: BlackAdder on Tuesday, 24 July 2018, 05:13 AM
Well, long story short - the beastie is a bit more of an ass than a beast :D
I've had some problems with the clutch. First it grabbed too hard for couple of days and after that it started to slip. So IT was in the garage for... ...well too long as the better friction plates seemed to be sold out everywhere. Had my vacation in between and still no clutch parts so I ordered the one that I could get my hands on.
I pulled the clutch cover couple days back and to my surprise the old ones didnt seem that bad, but I changed them anyways. I didnt have calliper at that garage so I couldnt measure the thickness but I did assume that they might be worn out, 20 thou (km) in the clock anyways allready. Actually might be more.... ...anyways, 70km ride, no problems at all and the next morning I got 10 meters from the parking lot and the clutch was gone totally - didnt engage at all. So for the first time I had to get my van to pick up the beastie. Back to garage and pulled the clutch cover and clutch to find out that the clutch basket nut had come loose (again). So the was nothing wrong in the friction plates after all - no wonder they seemed to be in pretty good condition..
...ok, same 70 km ride back and the next morning there was a small puddle of oil underneath the bike. Yupp, the clutch cover gasget had had it so that was the next thing to fix. In the evening I went for a ride with a friend and the bike started jerking and stuttering on hard accelerations. Or it got worse. I had a pretty good idea what was wrong - fuel pump was going. It has been jerk every now and then but now it got very bad Soo now theres a high volume Walbro in place and it delivers. A LOT. Actually a bit too much - it runs so rich that it wont revv over 3000ish. And that's a guestimation as my tacho died this morning as well...
So now I'm trying to find a guy that would weld titanium so that I could get a lambda-sensor attached to the exhaust so that I could take it to the dyno. As soon as possible of course. And yes, should have done it way earlier but I've had some personal stuff going on...
And the worst oil leak is gone now, I ordered hydraulic lines to replace the HEL ones and it has helped a lot. I also added another crank breather line witch helped a bit as well, but I suppose it's still insufficient - need bigger hose there.
So.. you are saying: the stock case ventilation is to small?
Quote from: Blubber on Tuesday, 24 July 2018, 08:35 PM
So.. you are saying: the stock case ventilation is to small?
To be honest - I dont know but it might a contributing factor to the small leaks. I happened to check one beemer (car) engine as it had breather problems and started thinking that it was a smaller engine than what I have in the bike, doesnt revv nearly as high and still the crank breather was double in size. I do have an extra breather in the plug you add oil but that might not be the best option for breather after all - obstructions in the way. But it does something.
I suppose I'll check the valve head oil drain tubes gaskets after the season is over, but it's an easy and fast way for me just to increase the breather hoze diameter.
Oh yeah, friend tinkered with the bikes pc3 earlyer today and most likely the pump was going allready last year when I had it dynoed. For some reason my laptop couldnt find the pc3 but he's did - straight from idle it was +25% of fuel and after 3000rpm it was full 100% if I heard him right. He said that he got it to somewhat rideable configuration but that is still way of. He said that you cant even dream of usingfull throttle with anything smaller that 4th gear - too scary, too powerfull, too torqy. Let's see whats it like but now it at least the descriotion sounds like what that engine combo should produce. The best news for a long whilefor me :)
Sounds like Your fuel pump is to big, supplying to much fuel. The standard fuel reg cant bypass fast enough so the rail pressure is to high. Have you done a fuel pressure test after fitting your new pump?
Hmm, nope, have not checked the rail pressure. Yes, it's getting too much fuel but the pc3 was cranked up to max so there should be quite a lot of reserve to decrease the opening times ot the injectors. Now this was just a very rough tinkerind with the pc3 just to get it some what rideable (had a broadband lambda attached, test drive and tinkering with the maps after the drive) I have not seen the maps my self yet so a glance at those will tell if it's programmable with the pc3 or do I still have to do more mods to the hardware side.
Good if you could get it tuned.
In my experiance the 'non return' fuel injection systems like the 14 has, run at best at 3bar fuel pressure. Very tunable and the pump is not strained and as the pump gets old the influince in tuning is very small and very slow.
Let us know how it goes, I am very interested, and sure a lot of others.
I have been thinking about the case ventilation...being to small
You could try and use the pairs for extra ventilation?
Remove the flap valves and make a connection to a vent tank...which drains directly in the cases or the such..
Never mind that...the pairs system vent towards the exhaust system.