Mmmm, can't locate my original post on this. :bugga:
Finally took the bike for a maiden, new brakes ride today.
Given I am using used pads on my original discs, the pads are not yet bedded from the concrete scrubbing I gave them, but my initial feeling is that the new caliper seems quite the same in a braking response sense.
I think I can say though that they appear to have better "feel" than the three pot, but this is a subjective thing really. I'll know more as I gain experience with it
As to being better? Time will tell. I am probably not the rider to ask how the brake reacts to a slam dunk attack on the lever, as I've never had to do so with three pot, and so I 'm not really competent to comment on a comparison under these extreme conditions.
As an aside, and again a bit subjective, but I think some pulsing I experienced in the past has improved also. I do understand why this would be so. Anyhow there it is FWIW.. Stay upright guys!! Rod G
Yep im happy with my 4 pots.
Better? As you say that's subjective. I think so.
Certainly not worse!
In the process of fitting 4 pots & braided lines to mine. I'll find out next month if they're any better..
Quote from: Cykik on Wednesday, 08 March 2017, 03:17 AM
In the process of fitting 4 pots & braided lines to mine. I'll find out next month if they're any better..
You wouldn't like to photograph and document the process and any pitfalls / tips would you and post up here (for the benefit of others who might want to do similar?). If you could it would be appreciated.
Lads what 4 pots do ye convert to?
Quote from: David Nolan on Friday, 10 March 2017, 04:21 PM
Lads what 4 pots do ye convert to?
Look at the stickies in the Technical sections
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=193.0
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 08 March 2017, 05:07 AM
Quote from: Cykik on Wednesday, 08 March 2017, 03:17 AM
In the process of fitting 4 pots & braided lines to mine. I'll find out next month if they're any better..
You wouldn't like to photograph and document the process and any pitfalls / tips would you and post up here (for the benefit of others who might want to do similar?). If you could it would be appreciated.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 08 March 2017, 05:07 AM
Quote from: Cykik on Wednesday, 08 March 2017, 03:17 AM
In the process of fitting 4 pots & braided lines to mine. I'll find out next month if they're any better..
You wouldn't like to photograph and document the process and any pitfalls / tips would you and post up here (for the benefit of others who might want to do similar?). If you could it would be appreciated.
Barmy, as you will know, this is a straight out bolt on swap, and so owners can follow procedure set out in the Owners Manual for removing/replacing the brake caliper. If not described therein and to keep the floor clean, apply clamps to both hoses prior to unbolting them. When bleeding the brake system, take the opportunity to pump through enough fluid to replace the old. It's a very straightforward job really. HTH. Rod G
Quote from: David Nolan on Friday, 10 March 2017, 04:21 PM
Lads what 4 pots do ye convert to?
SV1000 ones on mine, straight swap. Refurbished them and powder coated satin black before fitting. Much better feel to them than the standard 6 pot calipers.
and mine
(https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1326.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu660%2FLandyvlad375%2FSuzuki%2520GSX1400%2FP1030136_zpsuz5xkiz9.jpg&hash=3eb6c31c3bb07c73a45733d21e1b80f232bfd9ac)
Those red wheels will give you away Bro!! Nice allround.. That red paint will likely allow it some speed and probably up there with the blue/white. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Rod G
The February 2010 Performance Bikes magazine did a brake test on a GSXR 1000K1 (6pots similar to ours), an extract from the Gixxer forum:
recently 'modernised' a GSXR1K2, part of which involved improving the brakes.
Directly from the mag article:
100mph - 0mph
Std Calipers and pads - 104.16m
Std Calipers and EBC pads - 93.73m
K3 SV1000 Calipers and EBC pads - 86.82m
K3 SV1000 Calipers and radial m/c GSXR750K4 - 97.47m
Quote from: RickC on Saturday, 11 March 2017, 08:24 PM
The February 2010 Performance Bikes magazine did a brake test on a GSXR 1000K1 (6pots similar to ours), an extract from the Gixxer forum:
recently 'modernised' a GSXR1K2, part of which involved improving the brakes.
Directly from the mag article:
100mph - 0mph
Std Calipers and pads - 104.16m
Std Calipers and EBC pads - 93.73m
K3 SV1000 Calipers and EBC pads - 86.82m
K3 SV1000 Calipers and radial m/c GSXR750K4 - 97.47m
So, comparing apples and apples (4/6 calipers and ECB pads) 7m is significant, and reinforces the idea that more is not always better!! Thanks for the info. Rod g :)
Just spotted an '07 Bandit 1250 with a 4 pot caliper. Perhaps that might swap over to the 1400 also?? Rod G
Not one I've heard reported and I'm someone would have determined if that was the case by now. I think the gap between the bolt holes is different and they won't fit.
From memory the bolt hole spacing on the Bandit is 90mm..The GSX14 is 60 something?
Quote from: froudy on Tuesday, 14 March 2017, 07:53 PM
From memory the bolt hole spacing on the Bandit is 90mm..The GSX14 is 60 something?
Oh, OK. Just a stand off look. Interesting though that Mr Suzuki went back to the four pots on his later iterations??
Quote from: Rod G on Tuesday, 14 March 2017, 08:01 PM
Oh, OK. Just a stand off look. Interesting though that Mr Suzuki went back to the four pots on his later iterations??
Knowing Mr Suzuki, it was probably down to cost..The 4 pots are bound to be cheaper than the 6 potters.
more likely for a while they access to a pile of cheap 6 pot calipers but exhausted that supply so went back to 4 pot.... :lol:
Would calipers from a SV650S fit the 1400.
Quote from: Reece on Wednesday, 15 March 2017, 11:25 PM
Would calipers from a SV650S fit the 1400.
No. Only these fit
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=193.0
I rode mine for the first time today since my new hip op and fitting the Tokico four pots...
They work a treat. Pads still bedding in so they're not up to 100% yet.
First impressions are very good though!
Interesting thread here that gets into the science as well as reality!
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil-cooled-gixxers/22601-calipers.html
At the expense of being howled out of the forum, I've always held a gut feeling that the 6 pot was contributing in some way unknown to me to the pulsing front brake, that the 1400 seemed to suffer from more than most.
I have been told, and believe it, the pulsing is caused by thickness variations developing on the disk as opposed to the disk becoming warped (two different animals IMHO)
If there is just one sticking piston on a 6 pot, then it appears to me the tendency will be for the brake pad to want to flatten the disk at various points on every single rotation, with a 4 pot caliper this likelihood is reduced by 30% immediately, and with 4 pots, the piston action is now going to be pivotal front to back, whereas the 6 pot can pivot depending which piston may be the villain.
There has always been some chatter also the 1400 master cylinder wasn't quite up to supplying a 6 pot. Just what effect this may of may not have the the bigger issues is anybody's guess?
So there you go, I told you I am crazy.
By way of comparison my bike barely made 20k klms before the pulsing developed (irregular wear). I will be keen to see just what difference, if any, the four pots will make. (and yes I know many of you made a lot of miles without probs)
Hi Rod
I'm sure all views are welcome on here 😀
On the thread in my previous post one of the guys makes a good point in that most folk tend to do the full monty refurb with new fluid pads and even lines. So the perceived benefit is spread across all of those variables. The true test would be just to swap Calipers like for like
as said
lots of things could affect your brake performance.
pulsing could be many things but dirty/sticking disc buttons is a very common cause .
there is a thread on cleaning them on here.
good luck
:cheers:
I like the 6er. Its a good caliper and looks the part. But imo it can't be denied that they need to be maintained and inspected meticulously. No problem for me as I enjoy doing it and would do regardless of what system I have.
You are right Rod, the more parts a system has the more can fail.
A true test as to performance (not just braking power) would be welcome but I doubt that it will be done. For me it would have to include a bunch of things besides a caliper swap (a very good start!).
For now all we can is reading various opinions based on theory, experience etc.
If I wanted/needed a good front brake system and had the budget, I would look at a radial Brembo caliper and radial master cylinder (or some other high end stuff).
Whilst I did follow all the advice I obtained here and there about 1400 pulsing front brakes. Lttle changed the conduct of the front brakes and certainly it took two new rotors , a 2nd hand four pot Tokico, new oil and so it goes on to get rid of pulsing.
It's always a relief to finally get on top of persistent problems. :cheers:
Might be, might not be as there are many reasons for pulsating - not just the calipers.
I am watching this post with interest as I have just purchased a set of 4 pot Nissin callipers.
I think I posted this elsewhere about disc problems.It makes good reading.
http://blackshadow-uk.co.uk/Fitting.html
Quote from: Yoda on Wednesday, 07 February 2018, 12:15 AM
I am watching this post with interest as I have just purchased a set of 4 pot Nissin callipers.
Out of interest, which Nissins did you get?
I've just put the 4 pot Nissin's on, these were off an 02 Blade, I'll be on the road over the weekend to test them out.
I'm not expecting a massive improvement tbh but they are less susceptible to failure due to lack of manintenance and are cheaper to refurb due to less componants.
My view on 6ers is that braking is good but if you ride in all conditions you do need to have a regular maintenance schedule.
Red
Quote from: T250 on Tuesday, 15 May 2018, 06:51 PM
Quote from: Yoda on Wednesday, 07 February 2018, 12:15 AM
I am watching this post with interest as I have just purchased a set of 4 pot Nissin callipers.
My front end is a 1st gen busa they guy I got them from wanted to go back to the original 6pots normally it's the other way round 6 to 4 pots maybe it's just me but I am getting a better feel from the 4 pots and better stopping could be just the placebo effect
I have a picture of them but am having problems uploading it
Out of interest, which Nissins did you get?
Mr McRed
I will be interested to hear your thoughts on the 4 Pots..
I am pretty sure to do this mod before much longer....
S
I've just done a radial 4 pot Nissin conversion on my bike and clocked up about 250 miles - and if I was to be honest I'm not convinced there any better than a sorted set of 6 pots - maybe a little bit firmer lever bit that's due to only moving 8 pistons compared to 12
they do look the kahunas though :grin: :grin:
I dunno about all this 4 pot business..
I run really top notch brembo monoblocks on my track bike, with sbs dual carbons & brembo radial mc's.. that thing stops..
but then so does this 14 with its 6pots, new fluid, bled properly and some half decent pads - I'm surprised how well, actually.
Sometimes, I think folk just can't resist fcuking about with 'tweaks' that they convince themselves make the bike better - like putting on shite cheap 'performance' exhaust systems.
Won't be changing mine - just the fluid every winter.
Quote from: PWM on Thursday, 17 May 2018, 05:41 AM
Sometimes, I think folk just can't resist fcuking about with 'tweaks' that they convince themselves make the bike better - like putting on shite cheap 'performance' exhaust systems.
Ya wouldn't have us leave the Bazooka on would ya? :confused1:
Speaking for myself I'm not a pony chaser, looks are far more important to me so that's how I make decisions on what mods to do.
4 pots look great to me and perform at least as well, some say better and are more durable and cheaper to maintain.
My case rests :hat:
I'm trying to work out the best way to go at the moment, my existing 6 pots need all new seals, pads and could do with a re-paint, I can get a very nice set of 4 pots complete with new pads for about the same money... :rolleyes:
If your 6 pots work them keep them; I had a few problems with mine so I changed mine to 4 pots.
One of the things that swung me towards them was snippets of an article out of Fen 2010 Performance Bikes where they changed out GSXR K1 (6 pots) for 4 pots, braking decreased from 104 meters to 86 meters from 100MPH, the same article changed the master cylinder and got worse braking so the 4 pots look like a good improvement. Snippets of the article are on the web but I haven't been able to find the full article (I had cut and pasted it to the old org but it's lost now).
I'm happy with mine (GSXR750 K1) and I would say the brakes work much better than my originals.
Hi PWM or is it PMT don't sit on the fence just tell it as you see it. One thing I would say is each to their own. If you like the standard look then fine if you don't then that's fine too. Live and let live mate 👍
Well mine are on now so will be testing over the next few days.
I love the smaller look to me seems a more appropriate size for the bike 🤟
Quote from: T250 on Thursday, 17 May 2018, 06:07 PM
I'm trying to work out the best way to go at the moment, my existing 6 pots need all new seals, pads and could do with a re-paint, I can get a very nice set of 4 pots complete with new pads for about the same money... :rolleyes:
Go 4 pots - cheaper to rebuild in future too !
Vlad, ill be in touch re your 6 potters. will refurbish, new pads and hoses in not too distant future. i like the originals, never been a prob for me. just lucky i guess. maybe its all the free brake cleaner i borrow from work. only borrow, not steal.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 09:02 PM
Vlad, ill be in touch re your 6 potters.
Yeah all good mate.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 09:02 PM
maybe its all the free brake cleaner i borrow from work. only borrow, not steal.
The word you are looking for is
liberate.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 20 May 2018, 09:02 PM
Vlad, ill be in touch re your 6 potters. will refurbish, new pads and hoses in not too distant future. i like the originals, never been a prob for me. just lucky i guess. maybe its all the free brake cleaner i borrow from work. only borrow, not steal.
It's called stock relocation :whistling:
Quote from: Notty on Wednesday, 23 May 2018, 12:13 AM
Noticed brakes were binding as I have to reverse 10 metres from my garage to the drive and its only a few inches spare each side ( house extension was built making sure could get a bike to the garage ) I cleaned my callipers and bled my brakes- no air bubbles but lever feels much firmer - surprising how much crap there was and only 1500 miles since last clean and I only ride in the sun now I am retired - road test after rush hour when its cooler :)
Not binding now and excellent stopping power - best since had the bike ! May b becos Mrs Notty helped pumped the lever - she asked for £42 labour so I offered to sleep with her tonight as payment - she wants the money instead !! see what happens after 44 years of marriage ! Lol
:)
Maybe someone want to get:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/suzuki-gsx-1400-front-calipers-sv1000/332665439066?hash=item4d7467c35a:g:JH4AAOSwIzBbCuJ9&vxp=mtr
Starting price is not bad :onya:
oooh Steve from Nottingham, pistons look like they'll need a bit of work!
Before I purchase 4 pot calipers, I read (on old org) what piston area summary is bigger than standard 6 pot calipers pistons area. In my eyes, slightly bigger area is better, cause it's easier to regulate padds pressure to rotors, so braking is better controlled. This was my major argument, when I make a purchase.
Now, having 4 pot calipers taken apart, I measure pistons:
4 pot 30mm + 34mm (actually 30.2 + 33.9)
6 pot 24mm + 27mm +27mm (correct me if I'm wrong)
Simple calculations and I have a prove 4pots area is bigger by...... ~1% :facepalm: Obviously not be a big advantage :)
At the same time, summary length of rubber seals is 18% shorter on 4 pots then on 6. Not sure it will affect braking...
It would be interesting to compare area of braking pads also, but I do not have 6 pots spare pads, and do not want to theke pads of the bike now.
Anyway, when I will be ready to replace, I will do some test brakings and will compare it wit 4 pots test brakings... Possible, there will be no :salute:
I have one question, why not from Hayabusa I gen?
In gsx1400, the fluid works with only one chamber between the halves. I mean the tiny ring sealing the clamp after screwing it on the 4 screws.
In Hayabusa and zrx, when we split the clamp we have two channels of two o-rings. Two channels give better performance which is necessary for braking rather than slowing down.
Hayabusa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBQWcYEnmKU 3.22 min
GSX 1400 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhNptCr3Xyg 7.50 minutes
Maybe that's because hayabusa calipers won't fit 14 fork without making/buying adapter?
The Hayabusa 99 to 07 6 pots aren't great either.
I've had a few Busa's and even brand new and scrubbed in the Busa brakes were never that good.
Poor Busa 6 pots topics occur like poor GSX 6 pot topics.
Mounting points for brake calliper's
GSX1400 - 63mm
Busa - 90mm
a good set of well maintained set of 6 pots with alloy pistons are every bit as good as a set of 4 pots - the 6 pots take more maintenance than the 4 pots and this is where the issue arises - the 6 pots with steel pistons corrode if not kept on top off - the rot starts inside of teh gust seals and makes them swell grabbing the piston causing it to partially seize - so when I rebuild calliper's for folks I have to tell them that you will get a little more movement in teh lever as all the pistons are moving as they were designed
The ZRX calipers won't fit the 14, that was just posted on a German forum.
Quote from: Del on Monday, 14 January 2019, 04:25 AM
- the 6 pots with steel pistons corrode if not kept on top off -
The (front) pistons in my K2 are coated or alloy, not a bit of corrosion after 17 years and 57k. Under good light and magnification I can see some striations on the exposed portion of the pistons.