Hi Gurus,
After my gear shift shaft decided to move in to the right of the bike causing the shaft return spring locators to jump off the fixing stud, I took the clutch apart, checked the shift shaft assembly, replaced some parts, reassembled and put new oil in.
I checked gear changes on centre stand and all appeared ok with rear wheel turning.
BUT ... when I tried setting off for a proper test ride, releasing the clutch lever did not transfer any power to the rear wheel.
Removed oil, clutch cover and can see the clutch push rods are pushing out the pressure plate and returning but can it be it is not returning/compressing the plates enough? The spring bolts are torqued at 10Nm as the manuals suggest and I removed and replaced all the plates which were fine.
Also, with engine off, surely I shouldn't be able to turn the rear wheel by hand when in gear with clutch released. In fact clutch operation makes no difference to resistance on the wheel, in gear.
So, does it mean something is awry with the deeper parts of the clutch assembly that I also reassembled. Outer basket definitely engaged ok into the oil pump cog and I followed the manual so should be fine, but of course something pretty fundamental is not right.
Would be grateful if any of you have suggestions for me to check or correct.
Thanks,
Pip.
Try removing the clutch piston assy (It's just in front of the front sprocket) and try again, if the wheel still moves easily when in gear you have a gearbox/internal problem, if not you have a clutch actuator/external problem.
I'm picking its an internal problem too. Is it actually selecting & engaging a gear? You'll hear it clunk into 1st if it is.
Going back to the very first line in your post, why did the gear shift shaft move inward in the first place? That's odd, not heard of that before, I think the problem will be in the basket reassembly, something not right in there I'm picking.
Thanks for your replies... really useful!
Along the lines of MJGT and checking internal/external: I could push the pressure plate lifter against the clutch push rods to allow the pressure plate and springs to do their job and they are not. If I push the pressure plate by hand against the friction plates still no joy BUT I can remove the pressure plate and momentarily push the plates together and this completely binds the rear wheel when in gear.
So I'm now thinking, as KiwiCol suggests, it is a problem with the basket reassembly. I have taken it apart again double-checking position of oil pump drive, washers and cams, etc. hoping everything will sit just a mm or two further back to allow better engagement of the pressure plate on the fiction plates. This because I think it is pushing on the inner basket and not the friction plates.
In answer to your questions, KiwiCol, it is definitely selecting the gears and as for the cause of the problem, I can only assume the circlip on the left side of shaft gave up (I found it loose and I'm also wondering if it was last put back in the wrong place as there appear to be two circlip grooves, at least on my shift shaft). Not had the bike long and hadn't looked before, so can't be sure.
I was out for a ride and first noticed when changing down, the engine revs were not increasing (so I wasn't actually changing down although the gear change still felt ok). Occasionally, I could get down to 2nd/3rd to limp home but on driveway tried going up and down the gears when the lever suddenly went very floppy. I checked and the shaft was moving in and out of the engine. If it goes in too far the other end will not engage with the gear selector wheel, as you will know.
When clutch was removed I reassembled the shaft with some new parts and tested the gear selector wheel. All was good and hoped I'd be back on the road by now but these things are sent to try us, as they say :)
I would be looking at the slave cylinder .
Hi, did you check when reassembling the stack of clutch discs that the last disc (closest to the outside cover) is offset by one "tooth" against the clutch basket?
I recall I had a similar issue when I replaced my clutch, would not engage etc. When i rechecked, i found i had not offset the last disc. Moved it around one tooth as per manual and it all worked. There is a photo of how the stack should look in the workshop manual.
Thanks, yes. I followed the manuals and am sure I put all the clutch discs back correctly with the last one offset by one tooth.
Currently awaiting delivery of new clutch shaft nut as the old is pretty ragged around the locking lip.
For tightening this nut at about 80Nm, how do you guys hold the clutch still as it wants to turn with the nut. Same with spring nuts but these are only 10 Nm so easy.
I'll let you know how reassembly goes when I get to it, thanks.
Pip, never done it on 14, tightened nut. Holding tool not expensive but can a rolled up rag just be jammed into exterior teeth? Thats all ive done on car gearboxes with nuts on mainshaft, same deal for tightening 14 axle rear nut. Might be wrong, just my thoughts.
Thanks Grog, I should really get the proper tool ...but that means money, finding the right source for the 1400 and time. When you're mad keen to get the bike back on the road a quick fix looks very attractive. I'll look at the rolled up rag option when I get to it. Also seeing 5/6th gear and brake is added option.
Pip
Update: 14's back on the road (again :whistling:).
It was first time for me, taking clutch apart and basket completely off to get to the gear shift shaft.
After dismantling it all for the second time, I'd learnt a lot about how it all works/fits together.
When replacing I made sure the clutch pressure plate was correctly fitted (novice error) and that it had the right contact on the the friction plates to enable it to squeeze them together (and of course, pressure plate sitting firmly in the teeth of the inner basket).
On 45k miles, I didn't need to change the clutch, but if I ever do it will now be an easy job!!
Thanks for all the comments and advice.
Pip
:cheers:Well done Mate.
Glad you got it sorted & found the reason. :onya: :clapping:
You'll probably never need to change that clutch, lots of us have many more miles than that on the original.
Satisfying to fix an issue like that though isn't it?
Thanks again for all your comments. Great forum when a whole bunch of people from all round the globe get involved to help.
Hooli, yes very satisfying! Almost as satisfying as that first proper ride out after being off the road for a bit ...and I've heard the clutches on these are bullit proof!!
For anyone wanting to replace, check their clutch, like Athel, here are my notes, edited to just cover clutch plates. i.e. not removing entire clutch basket.
Disclaimer: These details are from my own notes and are followed at the reader's discretion. I take no responsibility for inaccuracies or omissions in the description of the process.
Drain the oil:
Apparently, you can lean the bike over (further than side stand angle) and do this without draining the oil, but I needed to change mine along with the filter. With a 17mm socket, remove the drain plug and fill up an oil tray bigger than 5L.
Remove all the bolts in the clutch cover on the right side of the engine. Loosen evenly, there are 11 bolts, with an 8mm socket...finally steadily pull off the case using the lugs around the edge.
The gasket should be removed and discarded in order to replace.
With the cover removed the clutch pressure plate is exposed.
Undo the clutch pressure plate bolts, again evenly working in opposites/star pattern.
Each set of bolt and spring are removed allowing the plate to be taken away from the clutch parts:
Remove the middle parts consisting of washer, bearing and pressure plate lifter.
Set these parts aside and remove all the clutch plates: keep these in order (for replacement) or even if replacing with new, as they act as a guide for the new plates.
Finally remove the anti-judder spring and spring seat (two thin rings at the back of all the clutch plates): for the sake of correct replacement, the first off is the spring which is shaped with the larger diameter edge facing outwards and the smaller diameter edge touching the spring seat behind it.
If you have arrived at this point, knowing you are putting in new clutch plates, then read on from 'installation' below, but if you might keep the clutch you should carry out some checks: thickness of the clutch plates, size of the tabs around the perimeter, warping of the steel plates and signs of overheating. In addition, you should measure the height of the clutch pressure plate springs and replace if out of tolerance...
BUT as I have often read on this forum, these clutches are as tough as old boots and rarely need renewal.
INSTALLATION
Now, all the clutch plates can be replaced in the same order they were removed ensuring the first and last plates are correct as they are different to the others, and all the spacers are placed alternately. Coat all plates in engine oil (if brand new clutch soak overnight). The final clutch plate is positioned into the shallower slots in the case.
With the insertion of the lifter, the small roller bearings and the washer...the clutch pressure plate can be presented.
Marry up the indent (small circle) in the pressure plate with one of two small triangle pointers on the housing. The holes for the spring bolts will align in this position. Ensure the plate slots into the teeth perfectly enabling the pressure plate to be pushed fully home, flush with the last clutch friction plate.
Working one by one in star fashion, the spring bolts can be tightened and torqued to 10NM.
Before putting the clutch cover back on make sure the surfaces are clean with none of the old gasket debris evident.
Without damaging the metal surface a sharp glass scraper blade and wire wool can be used to clean the housing & cover surfaces but make sure all parts are cleaned of the wire wool and debris removed.
Fit the clutch cover with the new gasket. Apply some black sealant paste on the crankcase joins (I didn't use anything on the actual gasket surfaces) and torque the bolts to 11NM.
Fill the engine with oil and 'Bob's yer Uncle!!'