Hi guys. I would like your collective might to advise what i should do about my 2003 60,000 miler 14 please.
Yesterday I started my 1400 up after a 3 to 4 week layoff. I had the bike on a trickle charger. It took a bit to start up, and after a few moments the FI light came on but it still kept going though quite roughly. I switched off and then re started it and she ran fine. I didn't ride it I just ran it to warm through.
Today, I tried to start it up and although it was turning over, pump was running etc it wouldn't start. I then noticed the CHEC light was showing. I put the fault code switch on and the code showing was C00 which is no fault!
I have checked the clutch switch (in fact I swopped it with a new spare). I have checked all the fuses. The kill switch appears to working correctly and I am planning to check the sidestand switch tomorrow.
Am I correct in thinking that if the clutch, sidestand switch etc were faulty the engine wouldn't spin over anyway - like the kill switch?
Anyway guys. Advice would be appreciated. Electrics is not one of my strongpoints.
Kindest regards Chip
Alan, you may want to consider a battery change. I keep mine on a trickle charger too and without fail, she fires up within two seconds, every time. A trickle charger won`t make a tired old battery good, so i`d check that out before you get bogged-down in other avenues of thought. Good luck with it mate. Keep us all updated. :onya:
Sorry you have already done everything that I would have checked I am sure someone with more knowledge will be along soon. The side stand switch only stops you from putting it in first and riding off because if the side stand is down and you put it into first it kills the engine so I can't see that stopping it from starting
Thanks so far guys.
Yes a battery can cause all sorts of strange issues. I think the one fitted is quite a few years old so I think I might well get that checked out.
The bike hasn't had too much use over the past couple of years - what with lock down and my wife was very ill last year, and it seems to need a lot of charging.
So good spot chaps. I'll keep you informed - and thanks for your comments.
Kindest regards Chip
@gsxbarmy put a great how to test your battery it the electrics section of the forum
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=6767.0 (https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=6767.0)
Indeed check the battery out Chip - link as per above.
You are right in thinking that if the clutch switch etc isn't working the bike won't turn over.
Few other considerations:
- you may want to check connections, like the grey plug and the white plug under the LH cover - maybe have them apart and clean with contact cleaner
- it may well be that the fuel pump / tea bag assembly etc may need a good clean and/or the petrol is just a bit old - these too can cause starting issues and rough running. A bit deeper perhaps is a deep clean of your injectors, maybe in the first instance (once you have cleaned the petrol filters), run some higher octane fuel through with some injector cleaner added for good luck (the higher grade fuel does have better detergents - Shell Optimax is a good one to use. If that doesn't work, then maybe get your injectors cleaned (there is a link
To me it sound slike rough running is more likely a fuelling issue.
Useful links
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=430.0
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=95.0
I bet you turned the bike off and took the keybout to remove the seat before you read the codes. 14s don't store the codes so they are lost when you turn the key off.
I'd try it again with the fault code connection already bridged, you'll see the code when it' happens then.
My first guess is vacuum pipes. They go brittle and snap. So if the bike has been left for ages the movement as you started it might have finished them off. That'd also cause a fault code for the MAP sensor.
If it's them they're easy to replace, just warm the new pipe in hot water first as it makes it easier to get over the connections. From memory it's 3mm pipe.
You saying the fuel pump runs and it spins over rules out the clutch and sidestand switches. Another one I've seen of a dirty ignition switch always seems to stop the fuel pump working so it can't be that either.
Thanks again for the latest replies.
When the problem first occurred (the FI light and rough running) I did switch off the ignition as you described but then immediately tried again and she started up and ran ok so I didn't try the switch on that occasion.
It was only yesterday when It wouldn't start at all (and I got the CHEC light), that I used the switch (s suggested in the manual by turning the engine over for at least 4 seconds) and the only fault code is c000 which according to the Haynes manual is "No fault".
I have always used Shell optimax or super unleaded in all of my bikes and this tankful isn't too old. Perhaps 3 to 4 weeks and I have been using petrol stabilizer over the winter.
Otherwise - thankyou all for your suggestions. I appreciate you taking the time. I'll start working through them and see what I can find. Cheers guys. :)
Chip
Hi guys. A quick update.
I replaced the battery as it just failed GSXBarmys suggested test process.
I have checked or replaced the clutch switch, sidestand switch, kill switch and generally looked the under tank area over for obvious issues.
As I am so useless with electickery, i have booked it in with my local Suzuki dealer who is going to look at it for me.
I let you know the results - if I survive the shock when I get the bill :)
Chip.
From memory all those switches go through a relay, sorry only reading this post now.
Turn signal/side stand relay
So if engine is turning over it is none of them, sounds like fuel.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 15 March 2022, 08:56 PM
So if engine is turning over it is none of them, sounds like fuel.
Pressure regulator dislodged maybe?
Can you smell petrol from the exhaust after an attempted start? if not I would have to agree with Snapey, pressure regulator. That happened to me not long after I cleaned the fuel pump, seems the plastic clip will only stand being dislodged and re-fitted once and needs to be wired up after that. If you have damp start you could try a squirt of that, if the bike fires then out with the fuel pump.
Hello again chaps. Once again any thanks for your thoughts.
I did check for a spark. There was no spark! :angry:
No smell of petrol either.
Its booked in on Thursday for my trusted dealer to have a look at.
Kindest regards
Chip.
I think fuel & spark are triggered by the same sensors, the ECU then uses the input to time them. There's other sensors for fuelling too but with no spark you can ignore them for now.
I can only think of the crank sensor that's common to both & required to run. The cam sensor is common too, but the book says it'll run without that & produce a code. It'll be interesting to see what the dealer says as the only other bit I can think of is a failed ignition switch not powering the ECU when the rest is switched on.
I know why I love my Dodge Kew side valve engines, there isn't one sensor on them. When you pump the pedal with air filter removed you can see the petrol squirt down the Stromberg down draught carb, the plug leads don't even have caps on them so you can stick you finger on there to find if you have spark, now that's technology.
Hi Hooli.
Yes it will be interesting to see what they come up with. Thanks for your thoughts. :)
Chip.
Hi Guys.
Quick update for you. The fault was the engine to frame earth lead! He was running through a few checks and noticed a spark down the back of the engine when the starter was pressed. The lead was corroded through to the last few strands of wire. He replaced it and she fired first time!
He also noticed that some of the vacuum pipes were cracked and when twiddled he could make the engine hunt. He recommended those were replaced too.
Should be able to pick the bike up on Monday (tomorrow).
Chip.
When my engine earth corroded they bike tried to start using the gear postion wires as earth's que much smoke and a bit of replacing much smaller earth's into the loom and replacing the big earth too.
Been fine since and a good few 1000's of miles now.
Cheap fix then at least & those vacuum pipes do die of old age, mine did a few years ago. Worse than yours though as I touched them & they fell apart...
Explained why it was lumpy as hell at low speed & drank fuel anyway
Well done Chip, great result.
Glad you got to the bottom of the problem and all will be good now for the summer. :onya:
Hi Guys.
Thought I would send in another (and final) update now I have my bike back.
To save you reading back - my bike was sluggish to start and eventually wouldn't run at all with the starter turning the motor over, but with a CHEC indication coming up.
I followed GSX army's suggested battery check list and it just failed the recovery side - so I fitted a new battery.
There were no FI codes / fault indications coming up, so I chickened out and my bike was collected by my local Suzuki dealers (Orwell Motorcycles Ipswich). They were maxed out but said they could look at it inbetween other work. I was grateful for that.
They started a diagnosis a day or two later and noticed a spark at the back of the engine, (almost by accident) whilst turning the engine over. It turned out to be caused by the Engine to Frame earth lead that had corrode to the extent that only one or two strands were left in place!
That fixed to engine starting issue immediately and they test rode it and phoned me.
They detected a mis fire which since they mentioned it I had noticed before at times, so I asked them to see if that could be sorted.
They suggested the tea bag fuel filter and spark plugs should be the first items looked at and so they changed them.
They phoned me to say she was sorted!
Yesterday I went and collected it. WOW!!
I hadn't realised how the performance had dropped off over the past few months. Its smoother throughout the whole RPM range. No hesitation or misfire. Starts on the button. Generally much better all round.
It cost a bit, but most of that was manhours for diagnosis and the plugs and filter weren't exactly cheap, but its always nice to be able to feel the difference in a vehicle after you have spent so much! Money well spent.
And now I have my bike back - Its snowing!
Keep safe. Once again thanks to you all for your help and advice.
Regards Chip.
PS If any of you are running an old 70s two stroke - what oil do you use? I have GT380 triple - standard engine and carbs - running on the standard oil injection pump - smokes like a B&*%$£*. My other two GT380 didn't smoke like this one does.
Have you checked the oil pump setting, if I remember there a couple of marks for min and max on the operating arm that can adjusted
Hi T250,
Yes indeed - spot on setting. I am wondering if its the oil itself. Modern 2 stroke oils are supposed to be low smoke, but Im not sure. I have tried mineral oil (as it would have been back in the day) and synthetic.
I suppose smoke is better than no smoke in a two stroke!! :)
Thanks for your thoughts
Chip.
Aren't modern two smoke oils designed for lower concentrations these days? I seem to recall that from Bantams etc
Hi Hooli.
Yes I believe that you can reduce the mix in a petroil lubricated bike (like a Bantam from 20 or 25 to 1 to 32 to 1 when you use modern oil. However, there isn't a way to reduce the flow when using the type of pump the Suzuki uses. You've got to be a brave man to mess with the lubrication system (or know someone who runs a machine shop and doesn't want paying).
Regards Chip
I use this on my 2 strokes and even the racing version, RD400 is pump and the smoke emission levels are good compared to others.
https://www.sclegacy.valvoline.com/en-europe/our-products/engine-oil/synpower-2t
Hi Irish,
Thanks for the recommendation. I shall have to give it a try.
Chip :)