Morning All,
Has anyone looked into this change to E10 fuel this September for the GSX1400?
I have emailed Suzuki GB and asked the question, and their response is yes, it is ok for a K2 model.
This contradicts the adverts which says motorcycles manufactured before 2010 may not be compatable with E10??
Any thoughts/comments guys?
I just hope Suzuki GB is correct as E5 has already fucked two of my bikes and my Strimmer.
I've run mine loads of times on E10 abroad. Nothing got damaged but it didn't run as smooth or as powerful & had worse MPG. No surprise as E10 burns differently to proper petrol so would need some retuning to work correctly.
Just use super unleaded, that's staying as E5, some makes are actually E0 but there's no legal way for them to label it as such. A google will tell you which as I can't remember.
Esso super unleaded is the only one left that's 100% ethanol free in the UK, unless you live in Cornwall or Teeside.
E10 would burn, say, "just fine" in the '14 engine... actually too well as it will tend to do so untimely with the spark plugs, as lower octane petrol tend to do with all engines. However engines designed to cope with lower octane petrol have sensors (knock sensor) to compensate this problem by retarding ignition and/or adapting valves timing (the "VVTI" stuff), making the engine running smooth again although less efficiently -- hence the increased MPG.
The problem is that as far as I know the '14 doesn't have such a Knock Sensor; therefore E10 is actually bad for the '14 engine (which is thanksfully apparently strong enough to cope with that) in addition to give poor performance, MPG, and smoothness...
My guess is that this has been one of the reasons that Suzuki has stopped production of the '14s -- not just the pollution stuff.
Quote from: SpongeBob on Saturday, 17 July 2021, 12:21 AM
E10 would burn, say, "just fine" in the '14 engine... actually too well as it will tend to do so untimely with the spark plugs, as lower octane petrol tend to do with all engines. However engines designed to cope with lower octane petrol have sensors (knock sensor) to compensate this problem by retarding ignition and/or adapting valves timing (the "VVTI" stuff), making the engine running smooth again although less efficiently -- hence the increased MPG.
The problem is that as far as I know the '14 doesn't have such a Knock Sensor; therefore E10 is actually bad for the '14 engine (which is thanksfully apparently strong enough to cope with that) in addition to give poor performance, MPG, and smoothness...
My guess is that this has been one of the reasons that Suzuki has stopped production of the '14s -- not just the pollution stuff.
Ahh but 14s are over retarded as standard anyway, hence ignition advancers are so popular.
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 17 July 2021, 12:25 AM
Ahh but 14s are over retarded as standard anyway, hence ignition advancers are so popular.
Right but mainly on lower gears, no? And anyway this is not controlled by a Knock Sensor feedback so I guess it's not there with the exact same purpose in mind :-)
Quote from: SpongeBob on Saturday, 17 July 2021, 12:39 AM
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 17 July 2021, 12:25 AM
Ahh but 14s are over retarded as standard anyway, hence ignition advancers are so popular.
Right but mainly on lower gears, no? And anyway this is not controlled by a Knock Sensor feedback so I guess it's not there with the exact same purpose in mind :-)
Indeed it's more in lower gears (up to 4th I think). But the mechanical advancers work on all six gears which proves 14's are more retarded than they need to be.
No knock sensor as you say, but whatever the reason they are still not advanced as far as they can be. I seem to recall the manual allows for 91 RON petrol? when normal unleaded is 95 RON, so that'd be why if my memory is correct.
I agree they aren't designed for E10, but it seems to me the setup is ok for it. After all the main issue people see are the fuel pipes rotting & Suzuki wouldn't say they are ok with E10 if that was going to happen. Of course if you've changed the fuel hoses over the years then it depends what you've fitted.
Quote from: Breeze7 on Friday, 16 July 2021, 06:23 PM
This contradicts the adverts which says motorcycles manufactured before 2010 may not be compatable with E10??
Not really a contradiction, the advert just means not all bikes made before 2010 can use E10. Therefore some of them (including 14s) can.
Apparently E5 is gonna be around for a bit becoming the premium fuel..so we pay a little more for it.
Unfortunately mine needs a higher octane content, and currently runs on 99ron.......guess I,ll be needing octane boosters in the 95ron....if infact i cant get 99ron.........vexing ???
Our ulp is 91, e10 is 94, then there is pulp in either 95 or 98. My bike runs exact same on all. I only use e10 if can be used up quickly, dont like it sitting around. E10 is good occasionally to suck any moisture from tank, i just stick a few litres in and ride till empty, then fill with pulp.
Also just to be confusing RON is not always the same as RON - there are different ways that can be measured and I know the US and Australia do it differently - unsure of what method UK uses.
As others have said on different threads use Esso Synergy Supreme and you will be fine as per stated below. You should definitely be worried using anything else if you store your bike for any length of time as ethanol separates from petroleum and absorbs water. This rots metal tanks from the inside and makes plastic tanks swell in size as well as the ethanol attacking other plastics and rubber seals.
This is from the Esso website:
What's in our Synergy Supreme+ 99 premium petrol
Our Synergy Supreme+ 99 petrol has more cleaning power than our regular petrol – and includes molecules whose job it is to reduce the friction in your engine helping the moving parts work more efficiently.*
Although our pumps have E5 labels on them, our Synergy Supreme+ 99 is actually ethanol free (except, due to technical supply reasons, in Devon, Cornwall, North Wales, North England and Scotland). Legislation requires us to place these E5 labels on pumps that dispense unleaded petrol with 'up to 5% ethanol', including those that contain no ethanol, which is why we display them on our Synergy Supreme+ 99 pumps.
There's currently no requirement for renewable fuel, like ethanol, to be present in super unleaded petrol although this could change in the future, in which case we would comply with any new legislation.
@Big Phil Thanks for info in your post, I normally use shell V Power in my bikes and car but will revert to Esso from now on.
At £1.56p per litre at my local garage it aint cheap! not too bad for the bikes as i do very little annual mileage but filling up the car that hurts :cry2:
My local esso has apparently run out of synnergy +99, only E10 is available so went up the road to BP who are still selling E5. For how though, don't know???.
Something interesting I've found with E10...
My Hornet 600 hated E10 to start with, it was slow as hell & had no power on the first tank. Four tankfuls later it's back to almost normal, it's close enough to normal that I can hardly notice the difference. I wonder if the extra ethanol has absorbed all the water out of the reserve bit of the tank & now it's running on petrol again rather than a petrol/water mix?
On the other hand, my Triumph Sprint GT doesn't care in the slightest & runs like normal on E10.
I know in the past abroad by 14 has hated E10, I wonder if it'll do the same as the Horent & 'recover' after a few tanks once it's back on the road?