GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => Brakes => Topic started by: Tally on Sunday, 07 March 2021, 02:31 AM

Title: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Sunday, 07 March 2021, 02:31 AM
I've just serviced my brake calipers and what a palaver that was , it took me just over an hour to remove one piston it was well stuck. Anyway they are all done now with the help of some Autosol and red rubber grease they all slid back into their cylinders like hot knife through butter. For your perusal here are some pictures.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Big Phil on Sunday, 07 March 2021, 03:50 PM
Looking good Mate 👏👏👏 Out of interest how did you get the stuck piston out?
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Sunday, 07 March 2021, 09:35 PM
@Big Phil  I used a pair of pliers and an old piece of inner tube . Fold the tube over to make a cushion over the piston , grab with the pliers and twist and pull at the same time. The problem I had was the piston would spin but not pull , after an hour of grunting,swearing and sweating it finally gave way. Once I cleaned the seal recesses out and greased (red rubber) the piston it went back in sweet as a nut.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: GSXKING on Wednesday, 10 March 2021, 09:28 PM
How old and how many miles/km's has the bike travelled ?
Did you notice a degradation of your brakes at all ?

I'm just curious as my bike is still original.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Thursday, 11 March 2021, 02:00 AM
Hi GSXKing, my bike is 13 yrs old and has covered 15th miles (24th Km's) . The trouble is that my bike lives outside and doesn't get used much (covid and other issues delaying getting out). The brakes suffered from road salt and dirt and started binding , not too bad but enough to make them judder especially when you're braking from 10mph to zero, the noise was audible even with ear protectors in and your lid on so apart they came, now they're ready to go back on weather permitting at the moment (raining). Hopefully they will be more responsive and a lot quieter, (report to follow). :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Thursday, 11 March 2021, 02:38 AM
I always find the lever goes spongy & feels wooden once a piston sticks.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: V_i_c_i on Friday, 12 March 2021, 12:38 AM
Autosol is fine .. just cleaned, no new paint on calipers.  :hat: Just bolt have new cover - Cu+Ni plating.

https://www.motorkari.cz/motorka/?mid=68345&act=moto-denik-detail&ddid=58444
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: BlueDragon on Sunday, 14 March 2021, 05:55 PM
Saw this on done on Youtube and thought I would try it out today.

Decided to service the front brakes on the 1400 as the lever was getting a little spongy and after I removed the calipers I notice 2 pistons in one caliper were not moving freely and the other caliper had one piston that was not moving freely.

Used a small socket as you can see in the photo along with an extension bar attached to the socket wrench/ratchet.  They jam into each other when in the piston and you try and use the socket wrench in the ""tightening" direction.

As you continue to turn the ratchet, the piston will spin and move outwards as you turn.  Pops straight out very easily, even the stuck pistons came out without problem.  I've tried this on the previous 6 piston caliper which had half the pistons seized and they all came out without issue.

Not sure how anyone else bleeds empty brake calipers/lines.  But I would recommend to make sure the pistons are pushed all the way into the caliper and with the brake pads installed, then put something in between the pads to keep the pistons inside the caliper. Then bleed the brakes like that.  It makes it easier to get all the air out of the caliper as the piston takes up all the space.  then when all the air is gone, bolt the calipers back in place loosely with about 1/2 a turn to go on the caliper mount bolts and slowly pump the brake lever and refill the reservoir as needed. Once this is done, I then hold the brake lever on while tightening up the mount bolts with thread lock to the proper torque.

Provided you don't have any air stuck in the master cylinder, your brake lever should now be really very firm.  I barely need 2 fingers on the brake lever with braided lines as well. Only the slightest amount of pressure is needed to stop.

These are the SV1000  calipers that I fitted to the 1400.

I'll get around to rebuilding the original 6 piston calipers once day as spares.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: grog on Sunday, 14 March 2021, 06:12 PM
All good advice Blue. 👍Dont reckon mine are as good as was. Must have a look. If only our pistons had a rubber boot over them like cars.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Thursday, 18 March 2021, 05:26 AM
A nice afternoon today so I decided to mount my brake calipers on the bike , all went well , annealed the copper washers then fitted the banjo bolts all torqued down nicely as did the caliper joining bolts , bled the brakes the old fashioned way, no dramas until the very last mounting bolt decided to snap so got to order some new ones :facepalm:. Now I've got the trial of removing the remainder of the bolt from the caliper, hopefully it will wind out :notworthy: oy vey  :doh:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Thursday, 18 March 2021, 05:41 AM
Just ordered  :computer_type: 4 new titanium hex bolts as I've got to replace one I might as well change the others, better safe than sorry  :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Thursday, 18 March 2021, 01:32 PM
Should have ordered six and done the rear too.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Friday, 19 March 2021, 03:41 AM
Yeah didn't think of that hooli, I'll order them another day. A pic of one snapped bolt
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Friday, 19 March 2021, 04:06 AM
One of mine snapped like that years ago when I was having tyres fitted, lucky it wound out ok & they found a bolt that fitted to get me home. Then last winter another one did it, so I went down the local fasteners place & got six normal bolts the right size & used washers with them.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: BlueDragon on Friday, 19 March 2021, 07:53 AM
I realise bolts get old etc and do snap and in many cases should be replaced anyway on a schedule.

But are you guys using a torque wrench to tighten these bolts?

I've never snapped a bolt when I've used torque wrenches.  I have several in my workshop.  Worth the money. I use them all the time. The only time I use a non-torque wrench is when I am loosening stuff to take things apart.

The caliper mount bolts, according to the Suzuki genuine workshop manual I have only need to be tightened to 18 lb-ft or 25 N-m.  Used with some thread lock as well.

the caliper bolts that hold the two halves of the caliper together only need 15 lb-ft.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Friday, 19 March 2021, 09:01 AM
I don't use a torque wrench ever, but as it happens both the snapped ones I've had snapped with very little pressure when being undone.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: GSXKING on Friday, 19 March 2021, 05:28 PM
Some of the tyre guys in Slacks Creek use airtools undoing and refitting those bolts I nearly had a conniption the first time I saw it done :furious: :furious: :furious:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: grog on Friday, 19 March 2021, 05:44 PM
I rarely use torque wrench on cars/4wd, excepting where you need to. Engine parts, flywheels etc. On bikes i have 3 that are always used. Never Seize and Torque Wrench, go together quite well for the tiny shit bolts on bikes.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Del on Friday, 19 March 2021, 07:01 PM
I always use a torque wrench when rebuilding calipers as need to make sure they are at 25Nm - I dread to think of anyone having an issue with something I have done and it was down to a loose bolt

Other than that its all UGGA DUGGA - I reckon 7 Ugga Duggas is sufficient for most applications

Del
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Saturday, 20 March 2021, 02:34 AM
I used my torque wrench to do them up , 3 of them went to 25nm, the fourth just sheared off so I guess it must have been fatigued. It's just as well it happened at home, anyway 4 new titanium bolts are on their way  :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Eric GSX1400K3 on Saturday, 20 March 2021, 08:53 AM
I will use a torque wrench most times, especially on important stuff like brakes and suspension, and on plastic bits like intake manifolds on modern diesels.

Recently changed out air struts on my land rover, after the originals had done over 200,000km.  The lower mount bolts have to go to 300Nm.  Undoing the old ones, the fronts were nowhere near that, and this is after "factory trained" mechanics had replaced the lower control arms the year before, meaning that they would have had to remove the strut to do so.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Sunday, 21 March 2021, 12:44 AM
As you know a caliper bolt snapped , well today I went to remove the rest of it an d luckily for me there was enough of the bolt protruding from the other side that I was able to get some pliers on it, wind it back in to get the pliers on the snapped end and it came out easy as pie, no damage to the thread on the caliper as well so all good there, happy days :notworthy: :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Tuesday, 23 March 2021, 02:32 AM
4 new titanium hex bolts arrived today hurrah!! :boogie: :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: GSXKING on Tuesday, 23 March 2021, 10:48 AM
You've probably saved about 5 grams of weight as a bonus  :rofl2: :rofl2: :rofl2:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 23 March 2021, 07:19 PM
Blowing your nose will save as much weight as the cross drilled heads.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Wednesday, 24 March 2021, 03:03 AM
 :rofl2:Being a fat bastard I need all the weight saving I can get  :rofl2:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: GSXKING on Thursday, 25 March 2021, 09:58 AM
If you take a good dump before you go riding you'd save more weight than the new bolts  :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Hooli on Thursday, 25 March 2021, 06:45 PM
But the bolts are unsprung weight so more important  :stir:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Saturday, 03 July 2021, 09:32 PM
Help and advice pls. Can anybody tell me what the diameters of the front calipers pistons are as I've been sent some and they look way too small . They are 8x27mm & 4x24mm, I've looked at the pics of my caliper re-furb a while back and the pistons look much bigger. Thanks Tally :onya:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: mlivkovich on Saturday, 03 July 2021, 11:47 PM
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=3529.0
:cheers:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Sunday, 18 July 2021, 10:52 PM
My M.O.T. Inspector said when he passed my bike that the front brakes were binding so this weekend I stripped the calipers again and I'm glad I did . The calipers were soaked and so were the pads. So new pistons and seals went in and new pads are on order. Some pics of what I mean.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: grog on Tuesday, 20 July 2021, 06:59 PM
Great job and pics :clapping:Will do same shortly.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: GSXKING on Tuesday, 20 July 2021, 07:23 PM
I hope that electric tooth brush stays in the workshop  :stir: :stir: :stir:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Wednesday, 21 July 2021, 01:42 AM
Yeah!! Chris it's been promoted to caliper cleaner as I have a all singing and dancing new one for my tooth. :happy1: :rofl2:
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Thursday, 22 July 2021, 01:55 AM
Pads arrived today so they can be fitted which I'll do tonight and tomorrow I will attach the calipers to the bike,tighten up and then bleed ready for a ride out at the weekend  :boogie:.
Title: Re: Caliper service
Post by: Tally on Tuesday, 24 August 2021, 12:38 AM
Rear calipers were serviced yesterday, much easier than the fronts were , pistons were in excellent condition just needed a scrub with a green scotchbrite to clean up the edges, new seals went in although I don't think they needed them, peace of mind though knowing new ones are in place. Pads had plenty of meat left on them , so re-using. Went for a test ride no leaks or squeals so all good there. (F.y.i a 1/2 inch extension and a 14mm socket is needed if you are using the ratchet method to extract the pistons.) :onya: