Hi folks, last year when I first got the bike I did an oil and filter change, I still had the wonky tool for the filter that I bought when I had the Bandit so I was happy to use the filter without the bolt, 17mil I think it is?
As we probably all know, the filter is supposed to be tightened 2 full turns from when the filter takes up to the engine cases, while "trying" to do 2 full turns last year the socket tool rounded the filter, oh great, will I be able to get the filter back off when I do the next oil change, ie, 3 weeks ago, answer, NO, not with the socket tool anyway, as I lay on the ground trying to come up with a remedy other than removing the exhaust I remembered I had these oil filter grips, there's very little room either side of the filter but the grips fitted in there, I couldn't put enough pressure on the handles with my hands so I used vice grips to squeeze the handles together, the filter moves about 3mil, that's how much room is in there, with my next try I couldn't get the filter to move at all, then I saw that one of the handles on the filter grips had broken, I welded them back together and after about half an hour on my back trying to move the filter it wasn't moving at all.
Determined not to take the exhaust off I tried one more hack that we used to do in the bike shop back in the day and that is to try and knock it out with a centre punch, the only problem, there's very little room either side of the filter.
I needed a longer punch than the usual caper so I dug out a piece of solid round bar and ground a point on one end and with the aid of the 4lb hammer I got it out after about another 40 minutes laying on the floor, how're your neck muscles.
So when I put the new filter on I did it up 1 full turn and it was on there tight enough for me, it "should" come out next oil change. So be warned if you think you can do the filter up 2 turns.
The pics don't do justice, when do they ever.
for future reference if it happens again, punch a largish phillips head screwdriver all the way though the filter and turn it with the screwdriver, you may need to do it a couple of times depending on how much you can rotate it until its loose enough to undo
Yes mate, but there is no room to turn it once you hammer in the screw driver, this method works only if you have room and the filter wasn't put on tight. It wasn't an option, thanks anyway.
https://toolswarehouse.com.au/products/lisle-63250-wide-oil-filter-wrench?variant=21303085629553¤cy=AUD&gclid=CjwKCAiAsaOBBhA4EiwAo0_AnPou-dndIYsm-izWCqjR4abKmxt0ZyMDYnXqWCOiDqNVzGvfSx1giBoCTOwQAvD_BwE
I`ve got 2 different sizes of these and if you can get them on they will get the filter off, I got them from Bursons years ago
Looks good, never seen them before.
I cant believe the trouble you had there Nic. Presumably you warmed up the engine first?
I use a similar tool to the above consisting of a 'cup' which slides fully onto the filter and has a square hole in the top to which a ratched is inserted. Cheap as chips and takes seconds to undo and refit the filter. :onya:
Having repeatedly burnt myself on the downpipes doing this job over the years i've now learnt to wear leather gardening gloves!
haven`t had to use it on the 14, but I will check tomorrow if it fits on
Yeah I might have to invest in one of those, 2 turns is too much IMO and not necessary to be that tight.
Steve, please let us know which one fits :onya:
Quote from: DP1400 on Monday, 15 February 2021, 04:52 PM
I cant believe the trouble you had there Nic. Presumably you warmed up the engine first?
I use a similar tool to the above consisting of a 'cup' which slides fully onto the filter and has a square hole in the top to which a ratched is inserted. Cheap as chips and takes seconds to undo and refit the filter. :onya:
Having repeatedly burnt myself on the downpipes doing this job over the years i've now learnt to wear leather gardening gloves!
Yes, the cup, as in my pics, but as I said, trying to do the 2 full turns rounded the filter. Basically the gist of my post is to let people know that 2 turns is too much esp for the cup tool.
Nic, not sure where you got idea for two turns or even how you got two turns. Ive changed thousands of filters over the years. Lube O ring, spin it on on until its snug, maybe 1/4 turn all thats needed. Those cup tools work perfectly keeping to that way.
I've seen the two turns thing somewhere, I can't recall where. It's a load of rubbish though, about 1/4 turn is right as grog says.
Look at my 2nd pic, on the filter under Caution.
Er, where have I seen this, anyone have a manual for the 14 :whatever:
OK Nic, im wrong. Apparently Suzuki genuine use a different seal, 2 turns required. Never ever come across that before. Just searched it all. Ill stick with my Ryco, 1/4 turn. If genuine that hard to get off, would never use one.
I fitted a genuine filter once, but it was so long ago I can't recall how much I tightened it.
I use Champion filters now days & 1/4ish turn works.
That goldish filter tool is the cheapest but not the best. Invest in the genuine item and you will never have that issue again. :onya: :onya:
I've had mine 20 + years and shows no signs of wear and tear, good value for money :stir: :stir:
The one I put on after getting this one off was the HI FLO 138, I put it on 1 turn, the cup tool did the job ok, then there's the HF138RC with the 17mm bolt which would be better again, I always thought you just did 1/4 turn as well until I got the bandit where the manual said 2 turns as well, it's stupid tight.
Anyway, just thought I'd tell the story of the debacle I had. Probably only ever happened to me :frustrated:
It fits on OK, no sizes on the tools, but it is the smaller of the two, 100% removal success rate if there is room to get it on the filter
(https://i.imgur.com/x93FYv9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/PZn4tgA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/l9p3PV9.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4d1yxz5.jpg)
Thanks for sharing Steve, interesting, on that filter it says min 2/3 turn. I reckon my 1 turn is good to go then.
Here's my theory.
Suzuki make theirs in such a way it requires two turns KNOWING that after market equivalents- being more universal - require up to 1 turn max, usually less.
Suzuki owner decides to try after-market filter and does so following instructions in book.
Debacle entails.
Customer decides that it must be the filter's fault and goes back to Suzuki OEM filters at vast expense.
Suzuki grin and watch the $ roll in.
Or am I getting too cynical nowadays?
Quote from: Nic on Tuesday, 16 February 2021, 02:06 PM
Thanks for sharing Steve, interesting, on that filter it says min 2/3 turn. I reckon my 1 turn is good to go then.
that`s a Ryco one, to be honest I`ve never taken any notice of oil filter instructions, I have always just done them up by bare clean hand as hard as I can, and never had one come loose or get stuck
If the 2 full turns isn`t a mistake, the Suzuki filter must have a much thicker O ring
Quote from: VladTepes on Tuesday, 16 February 2021, 02:36 PM
Here's my theory.
Suzuki make theirs in such a way it requires two turns KNOWING that after market equivalents- being more universal - require up to 1 turn max, usually less.
Suzuki owner decides to try after-market filter and does so following instructions in book.
Debacle entails.
Customer decides that it must be the filter's fault and goes back to Suzuki OEM filters at vast expense.
Suzuki grin and watch the $ roll in.
Or am I getting too cynical nowadays?
Debacle entails :rofl2: I'll go along with all you said Vlad.
Quote from: steve porter on Tuesday, 16 February 2021, 02:51 PM
If the 2 full turns isn`t a mistake, the Suzuki filter must have a much thicker O ring
Well you can't do it 2 turns with the cup tool as I said, the filter went round, it wasn't the tool that let go but the filter.
Quote from: VladTepes on Tuesday, 16 February 2021, 02:36 PM
Here's my theory.
Suzuki make theirs in such a way it requires two turns KNOWING that after market equivalents- being more universal - require up to 1 turn max, usually less.
Suzuki owner decides to try after-market filter and does so following instructions in book.
Debacle entails.
Customer decides that it must be the filter's fault and goes back to Suzuki OEM filters at vast expense.
Suzuki grin and watch the $ roll in.
Or am I getting too cynical nowadays?
Nope, reckon you're on the money there Vlad.
Yeah Steve. They are good tools. I also have seat belt type, rolls up with socket extension into fitted sq metal bit. Also a chain type, sim story to seat belt type. Also a pair of pliers, like big round multi grips. I find specific cap type works fine on 14. Lots of newer cars have cartridge filters. Plastic housings that forever break. Some are $200 to replace.
This is my 14 filter tool. Works a treat :onya:
I've not seen one of those Col. I have the cup type, a chain thingy (that doesn't work very well), and some large 'plier' type things & they work real good. They get a grip onto the filter & it's then just you turning it. Love that tool.
Have to thank my late father in law for that little tool. I'd never seen one before but its a little beauty Col.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 17 February 2021, 07:48 PM
Have to thank my late father in law for that little tool. I'd never seen one before but its a little beauty Col.
I like that one, if I come across one I'll add it to the collection of about 6 useless and 4 useful ones that I have
And if you buy a filter with a nut on the end only use the nut to REMOVE it not to tighten it as the nut is usually spot welded onto the oil filter and nearly every one I have seen leaking around the nut was tightened up with the nut and within a short time was leaking
When I worked in a local stealer ship K&N oil filters were seen almost daily with leaking issues around the nut probably from overtightening the nut
Quote from: Grumpy old man on Thursday, 18 February 2021, 07:12 AM
And if you buy a filter with a nut on the end only use the nut to REMOVE it not to tighten it as the nut is usually spot welded onto the oil filter and nearly every one I have seen leaking around the nut was tightened up with the nut and within a short time was leaking
When I worked in a local stealer ship K&N oil filters were seen almost daily with leaking issues around the nut probably from overtightening the nut
Good to know, thanks.
Grumpy, a good tip. I never use them but will remember to pass it on.
I have 142,000km's on my GSX now I've only ever used genuine filters, they're not super expensive. My two cents worth :worshippy: :worshippy:
Quote from: Grumpy old man on Thursday, 18 February 2021, 07:12 AM
And if you buy a filter with a nut on the end only use the nut to REMOVE it not to tighten it as the nut is usually spot welded onto the oil filter and nearly every one I have seen leaking around the nut was tightened up with the nut and within a short time was leaking
Thanks for the tip mate. I have recently purchased an oil filter for my SRAD with a nut for the first time. My thinking was it would make removal a little easier if for any reason it got stuck. Not fitted it yet so will now make sure I tighten by hand 1/4 to 1/2 turn and just use the nut to remove it.
Quote from: GSXKING on Thursday, 18 February 2021, 07:50 PM
I have 142,000km's on my GSX now I've only ever used genuine filters, they're not super expensive. My two cents worth :worshippy: :worshippy:
Mine hasn't had a genuine filter on more than once since I got it with 7,452 miles on. As it's over 161k now I'd say any decent filter (I use Champion) is ok.
Agreed, I have been using HiFlo filters for over 20 years with no issues.