GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => General Technical discussion => Topic started by: Muppet on Monday, 14 December 2020, 06:51 PM

Title: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Monday, 14 December 2020, 06:51 PM
Hey guys, I need help...
Story is.. had a big ride on a Sunday, 500+ ks Monday the bike starts missing, initially figured bad fuel ( we went to some out of the way places)
So cleaned out the fuel pump, no. Then the entire system, included getting the injectors checked. No. Then put in new fuel pump( generic) no. Removed the pairs system and new plugs. No. Then was told it was a spark problem, changed the 1-4 coil pack. No. So it's been at the sparkies for a month he picked it as being the little silver valve on the fuel pump. He found a second hand one and boom worked fine. Drove it away and 10 ks down the road it just died. So another fuel pump from the states courtesy of a thread on here and still no. I'm at a loss, so are they .. I need suggestions PLEASE ??? ???
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Monday, 14 December 2020, 06:57 PM
Sorry also removed the PC3
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: KiwiCol on Monday, 14 December 2020, 06:58 PM
That little silver thing is the pressure regulator & once they've been off it's advisable to secure them back in place with some ss wire.

Have a read of the thread in the link below & see if any of this sounds familiar to your situation.

https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1610.0
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Monday, 14 December 2020, 07:01 PM
Yeah tried that mate
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: KiwiCol on Monday, 14 December 2020, 07:10 PM
No codes or FI showing I take it.  Sounds like @Kiwifruit 's problem shows up in another bike.    It it a BlacK?  Now that'd be a real coincidence if it is!!
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 12:13 AM
Strangely yes it is a black 07 , it's got me bamboozled mate
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Snapey on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 01:53 AM
90% of these problems seem to be the high pressure filter. If that filter is blocked then no amount of new pumps will be able to push the fuel through. Bypass the bastard.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 03:36 AM
Yeah it's a brand new one😳
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 04:13 AM
New plugs, new coils, new fuel pump & HP filter, clean injectors.  Time to start looking at the sensors I'd say, something is telling the ecu porkies. 
you can swap the IAP and the MAP sensors round, they're the same part.  1 is under the tank & the other in the airbox. 
Check to see for air leaks in the rubber hoses when you get the tank off.  Undo it, spin it 90 degrees so it sits where the seat would be & you can still run the engine like that.  You'll have to disconnect the overflow tube though. when shes running, spray some start ya bastard or similar around the throttle bodies & se if there's an increase or change, that'd show a leak.

Have you pulled the air filter out & had a look at it & inside the housing? 
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 05:00 AM
The only six sensors I can think of that control fueling are -

Oil temp
MAP sensor
Ambient air pressure sensor
Ambient temp sensor
TPS
SPS

There are test procedures for them all in the workshop manual. I don't think they offer test figures below 20c though, so unless I remove mine & bring them in for a few hours I can't test them currently.

It'll be interesting if you do find one out of range as my 14 has got thirsty & I suspect it's one of these causing it.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Snapey on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:51 AM
Quote from: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 03:36 AM
Yeah it's a brand new one😳

Complete $750 filter or just the pump?
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 07:05 AM
Surely the flow rate can be checked on the downstream side of the pump and filter.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:04 PM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 07:05 AM
Surely the flow rate can be checked on the downstream side of the pump and filter.

It can, the figure is in the workshop manual although I can't recall what it is.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:28 PM
Soooo... I am on nights at the moment, so I screenshot your solutions to the sparkie and... it's the fucking map sensor, he picked it late yesterday and text me this morning that it is now running the way it's supposed to, with the comment good luck keeping your license on that thing🤣 gentlemen much gratitude to you all, when I get home I'll take some pics and show her off(she's back to a she and not an it🤪) this forum is a life saver. The map sensor he put in is a second hand one( which i authorised) does anyone have a link to new more fiscal  , new ones? Cheers lads
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:33 PM
Great, glad she's back. 


@Kiwifruit
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:41 PM
Quote from: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:28 PM
Soooo... I am on nights at the moment, so I screenshot your solutions to the sparkie and... it's the fucking map sensor, he picked it late yesterday and text me this morning that it is now running the way it's supposed to, with the comment good luck keeping your license on that thing🤣 gentlemen much gratitude to you all, when I get home I'll take some pics and show her off(she's back to a she and not an it🤪) this forum is a life saver. The map sensor he put in is a second hand one( which i authorised) does anyone have a link to new more fiscal  , new ones? Cheers lads

That's good news, I might try a replacement on mine to cure it's thirst.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 06:48 PM
Good result, glad you got it sorted.

Maybe SA14 's is suffering the same problem?
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: grog on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 07:07 PM
Great result Mate
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Big Phil on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 08:25 PM
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:48 PM
Good result, glad you got it sorted.

Maybe SA14 's is suffering the same problem?

Your a brave man if you post that on the current SA14 thread 🤣😂🤣😂😄
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: gsxbarmy on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 08:26 PM
Quote from: Muppet on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:28 PM
Soooo... I am on nights at the moment, so I screenshot your solutions to the sparkie and... it's the fucking map sensor, he picked it late yesterday and text me this morning that it is now running the way it's supposed to, with the comment good luck keeping your license on that thing🤣 gentlemen much gratitude to you all, when I get home I'll take some pics and show her off(she's back to a she and not an it🤪) this forum is a life saver. The map sensor he put in is a second hand one( which i authorised) does anyone have a link to new more fiscal  , new ones? Cheers lads

Great that the problem is found and resolved - well done your sparkie  :onya:
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 10:10 PM
I've just managed to find the MAP sensor to see what the new price is, £328.80!  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 11:08 PM
Quote from: Big Phil on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 08:25 PM
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:48 PM
Good result, glad you got it sorted.

Maybe SA14 's is suffering the same problem?

Your a brave man if you post that on the current SA14 thread 🤣😂🤣😂😄
im sure Baz will be along and write another war and peace about undoing his tyre  valve stem cap (just stirring Baz) :stir:
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December 2020, 11:56 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 10:10 PM
I've just managed to find the MAP sensor to see what the new price is, £328.80!  :lol: :lol:

You can tell it's the right part, as the same part number is listed lower down too, but amusingly they've named them both wrongly. Which made them much easier to find, along them being listed as part of the airbox...

MAP sensors sense a reduction in intake pressure under normal conditions, not boost & the other one is the ambient pressure not temp sensor. The temp sensor screws into the side of the airbox on the RH side.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: numbskull on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 12:22 AM
Haven't used it yet, but was £8.69 when I bought it at the end of September:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B088KNJJYX/


Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 01:02 AM
Quote from: numbskull on Wednesday, 16 December  2020, 12:22 AM
Haven't used it yet, but was £8.69 when I bought it at the end of September:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B088KNJJYX/

Now that's a LOT cheaper, £15.99 currently. I'll get one as a test, worth it at that price. It'd pay for itself in a month with fuel savings if it's the problem.

Edit to add - now ordered so I'll try it soon.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 06:52 AM
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:04 PM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 07:05 AM
Surely the flow rate can be checked on the downstream side of the pump and filter.

It can, the figure is in the workshop manual
although I can't recall what it is.


Had mine done last Thursday 3bar with the guage in the fuel line joiner.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 07:52 AM
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 16 December  2020, 06:52 AM
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 06:04 PM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 15 December  2020, 07:05 AM
Surely the flow rate can be checked on the downstream side of the pump and filter.

It can, the figure is in the workshop manual
although I can't recall what it is.


Had mine done last Thursday 3bar with the guage in the fuel line joiner.

There's a quoted figure for flow rate in 30secs I think it is too.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: NutR33 on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 03:07 PM
The map sensor and the air pressure sensor are the same part, so they can be easily swapped to fault find. I had to replace my air pressure sensor recently and found the vl800 boulevard uses the same sensor. Everyone wanted $1-200 for a second hand gsx sensor, I found a pair on eBay for $30 from a vl800.
Put part number 18591-42F00 into something like the link below and it will tell you what other bikes it suits.
http://www.mickhone.com.au/partFinder/fiche/suzuki#content

Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 03:13 PM
Nice find NutR33, there are a lot of bikes & models that use this bit.   I've modified your link to show them;

http://www.mickhone.com.au/part/suzuki/1859142F00#content
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Hooli on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 07:25 PM
Quote from: NutR33 on Wednesday, 16 December  2020, 03:07 PM
The map sensor and the air pressure sensor are the same part, so they can be easily swapped to fault find. I had to replace my air pressure sensor recently and found the vl800 boulevard uses the same sensor. Everyone wanted $1-200 for a second hand gsx sensor, I found a pair on eBay for $30 from a vl800.
Put part number 18591-42F00 into something like the link below and it will tell you what other bikes it suits.
http://www.mickhone.com.au/partFinder/fiche/suzuki#content

Like a lot of parts then.

I used a GSXR600 speedo sensor on my 14, it's the same part number & identical but half the price second hand.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Irish in Oz on Wednesday, 16 December 2020, 08:13 PM

[/quote]


Had mine done last Thursday 3bar with the guage in the fuel line joiner.
[/quote]

There's a quoted figure for flow rate in 30secs I think it is too.
[/quote]

1.2 Litres / 30 seconds
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: grog on Thursday, 17 December 2020, 06:04 PM
Col, kiwifruit, did you do flow test as well?
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Muppet on Wednesday, 23 December 2020, 08:39 PM
So apparently I was a little premature. The sparkie started the bike next day and it started running rich then it ran lean... so he checked the tps it seems ok so they put it on a dyno and now they're thinking ecu,  so It's back to being an it again and not a she😳 I'm resigned to just dealing with it, over it really 😢
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 23 December 2020, 09:06 PM
I feel your pain, l'm trying to find an intermittent fault. It runs sweet for ages, like  over a 1000kms or more then has a hissy fit and as quick as you can snap your fingers it runs like shit. Park it, start it the next and it runs fine. Done about 400kms since my last sense of humour failure and is running fine. So to the dyno in the new year we go.

Not a flow test Grog just pressure.

Hope you get it sorted soon. Will let you know if l find the cause of my issue. Like yours it remains an it.
Title: Re: Stumped
Post by: turner on Wednesday, 23 December 2020, 09:23 PM
Hello guys, dont know if you have all ready tried this but , when mine kept doing a very thirsty , cough , running  rough cutting out bellow 3000 rpm . i read about checking / cleaning all the connectors/plugs . had all ready checked valves as a local mechanic suggested. my mate noticed when running if i revved it light dimmed a little. so decided to disconnect every plug electric cleaner /then ACF50 on pins . was sceptical but it worked for me. ...sorry if you have all ready been over this ....Phill