Chain was super floppy to the point where it was snatchy and I was stalling at lights... :facepalm:
I adjusted it as best I could and now the damn thing is too tight and makes unwelcome noises. :shocked:
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong along the way - what's the best procedure?
really best with you on it and someone else doing it, to about 10 mm, but if not poss , bike on the ground and find the tightest spot of chain if not new and adjust to whatever the specs are 25 mmm i think
Vlad, if it was adjusted ok and changed after tightening axle, start again. Before doing up axle nut, jam a towell or rag into rear sprocket, turn the wheel to put pressure on chain adjust blocks.
Sounds like chain is nearing its use by date. Xmas is coming, treat yourself to a chain and sprockets Vlad. Will make it a different bike.
"To hell with the expense, feed the cat another goldfish" :onya:
Actual clamping procedure, to be sure it won`t move under load, I set the slack, nip up the axle bolt enough that it`s firm, back off the adjusters evenly one full rotation, tap the axle with a block of wood and mallet one whack per side until it touches the adjusters and then turn the adjusters one flat at a time until even and straight, tighten and check, might sound like overkill, but counteracts any slop and never moves.
I always find the chain tightens as you do up the axle nut, so recheck it afterwards.
If slackening I don't use owt posh like lumps of wood, I hold the bike and kick the wheel forwards to seat the adjuster blocks on the bolts.
No need to sod about with people on the bike, just set it to about an inch slack unloaded, I forget the exact figure. Suzuki know how much the chain tightens when loaded so allowed for that already.
This tightening as you do up the axle nut is a PIA, reckon we (someone) should do a measure n say how much it actually tightens from 'slack / correct' to 'after nut tightening' then everyone would know to allow 'x' distance at slack to get the right chain tension after 1 go. I'd do it tomorrow, but I'm 'playin' with the boat engine & wheel bearings.
Quote from: 😎KiwiCol on Friday, 06 November 2020, 03:55 PM
This tightening as you do up the axle nut is a PIA, reckon we (someone) should do a measure n say how much it actually tightens from 'slack / correct' to 'after nut tightening' then everyone would know to allow 'x' distance at slack to get the right chain tension after 1 go. I'd do it tomorrow, but I'm 'playin' with the boat engine & wheel bearings.
That's why I tighten before setting, the final pull up on the axle nut doesn't move anything
Unfortunately there is no "magic fix" for that extra tension on the chain once you nip up the axle nut. Most Suzuki's I've owned had this issue caused by welded swingarms. My Aprilia Mille was bad for it also. I countered it by using a vernier to measure tensioner bolts adjustment making sure it's even on both sides, helps the bike to run straight. I allow for 10-15 mm of reduction once axle nut is tightened. I put a screwdriver wrapped with a rag between the chain and rear sprocket to hold it is a still as possible. I hope this helps.
P.S.
@VladTepes if it's too tight it will put loads of pressure on front sprocket and gear box, so looser is better :onya:
Yours sounds like it needs replacing to be fair or is it all that extra horsepower from the Yoshi cams :rofl2: :rofl2:
Well today is day 2 of being tight and I;'ll loosen it off a but tomorrow., hopefully no real damage done.
At the point where the adjusters are now there are no lines showing so trying to get it even is a royal PITA.
The sprockets (rear anyway) don't look all that worn. What's the typical replacement period?
Quote from: Hooli on Friday, 06 November 2020, 03:35 PM
I always find the chain tightens as you do up the axle nut, so recheck it afterwards.
If slackening I don't use owt posh like lumps of wood, I hold the bike and kick the wheel forwards to seat the adjuster blocks on the bolts.
No need to sod about with people on the bike, just set it to about an inch slack unloaded, I forget the exact figure. Suzuki know how much the chain tightens when loaded so allowed for that already.
I set mine similarly, 25mm slack or droop from midpoint between front and rear sprockets, but I use verniers on the adjusters to ensure they're even - this does assume the entire swingarm is square and true.
No lines Vlad? Must be renewal time for sure. Steve, how good was Darmah chain adjust, so easy. Diavel along same lines so guessing most Ducati similar set up.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 06 November 2020, 05:29 PM
No lines Vlad? Must be renewal time for sure. Steve, how good was Darmah chain adjust, so easy. Diavel along same lines so guessing most Ducati similar set up.
Mine was a late one and had the adjusters at the axle end, I think some even had both. This is stretching the brain, but I reckon they were called Seeley adjusters
Changed mine at 55k probably should have done it at 45k. Finished up with a few tight spots and sounded like shite. Fitted chain and sprockets.
Quote from: VladTepes on Friday, 06 November 2020, 05:03 PM
Well today is day 2 of being tight and I;'ll loosen it off a but tomorrow., hopefully no real damage done.
At the point where the adjusters are now there are no lines showing so trying to get it even is a royal PITA.
The sprockets (rear anyway) don't look all that worn. What's the typical replacement period?
Must be rooted to be stretched that much
Dumb question , good at them. If 14 was available chain or shaft drive, what would you choose. My old GS1000G was shaftie, never a problem. Not sure of my choice, chain never gives me much worry. Sure would give us less to post about. Just wondering.
I'd go shaft, however these new fangled O/X ring jobbies are far, far better than the old ones I only have bad memories of, mines done 30 k now and reckon it might see 40
Question for the brains trust, never having had one, what's the consensus on Scott oilers ? Or other auto oilers
Quote from: steve porter on Friday, 06 November 2020, 07:13 PM
Question for the brains trust, never having had one, what's the consensus on Scott oilers ? Or other auto oilers
I had the electronic Scott Oiler on my 14 - well worth the money and the nice thing about it was that you could alter the flow on the go, so if it started raining, you could slightly up th eoil flow. Plus being the electronic version, it didn't feed any oil through when stationary.
On mine it made quite a noticeable difference, chain needed much less adjustment, bike ran smoother - yes they are not cheap, but personally if I had a chain bike, I'd have one fitted every time.
Sounds good, reckon I might get one
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Friday, 06 November 2020, 07:20 PM
Quote from: steve porter on Friday, 06 November 2020, 07:13 PM
Question for the brains trust, never having had one, what's the consensus on Scott oilers ? Or other auto oilers
I had the electronic Scott Oiler on my 14 - well worth the money and the nice thing about it was that you could alter the flow on the go, so if it started raining, you could slightly up th eoil flow. Plus being the electronic version, it didn't feed any oil through when stationary.
On mine it made quite a noticeable difference, chain needed much less adjustment, bike ran smoother - yes they are not cheap, but personally if I had a chain bike, I'd have one fitted every time.
I totally agree, they are brilliant if you do any decent mileages.
With the older vacuum ones the trick is to leave the damn thing alone. The people I've known who say the always need adjusting etc etc tweak them constantly, you need at least a 100miles between tweaks to decide if it's right or not. After a little while you'll just know how much to tweak it, the setting can be totally different to someone else's due to the pipe run etc.
Not much of that applies to the electronic version, as it's pumped so isn't affected by temp etc.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 06 November 2020, 06:52 PM
Dumb question , good at them. If 14 was available chain or shaft drive, what would you choose. My old GS1000G was shaftie, never a problem. Not sure of my choice, chain never gives me much worry. Sure would give us less to post about. Just wondering.
Shaft drive for me.
I think I'd stick to chain, they aren't any hassle & the one shaftie I had (ST1100) felt odd as the rear used to rise under hard throttle.
Chain drive is better power transmission as its linear to the output drive shaft, i.e in the same plane. But more maintenance due to being "open gearing"
Shaft drive is cleaner and quieter, but you need to counter the torque reaction from the drive shaft running along the bike main axis (the imaginary line running front to back wheel).
Modern bike : shaft drive for me if properly sorted, e g BMW
GSX1402: quality x ring chain and forged steel sprockets for me
Chain Monkey looks like a good idea, though maybe a little expensive: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chain-Monkey-Unisexs-Motorcycle-Setting/dp/B015YD9WJW (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chain-Monkey-Unisexs-Motorcycle-Setting/dp/B015YD9WJW)
Quote from: numbskull on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 01:24 AM
Chain Monkey looks like a good idea, though maybe a little expensive: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chain-Monkey-Unisexs-Motorcycle-Setting/dp/B015YD9WJW (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chain-Monkey-Unisexs-Motorcycle-Setting/dp/B015YD9WJW)
I can't see the point in that sort of thing.
Chain tension is given as a range of acceptable adjustment, it's not a precise measurement so doesn't need to be repeated exactly.
Adjust your chain with the bike sitting on its side stand.
Adjust to +/-25mm play at the centre point of the bottom run of the chain.
After adjusting, if you feel tight spots while riding or when the bike is on its mainstand or paddock stand and manually rotating the wheel - replace it. Otherwise, it`ll wear sprockets big time.
Always err on the side of slack rather than tight.
Unusual to say the least, if your chain tension is causing you to stall the bike.....never known that :whistling:
A rear paddock stand is the way to go if you have one as it's easier to check for tight spots pre and post without being a contortionist
Had a shaft drive XJ750 so smooth, loved it. Shaft drive might behave differently with the 14's torque....... but would be my preference.
With a shaft drive you dont have to do any of that shite or clean it off the back wheel, I I've done plenty of miles on both.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 09:06 AM
Had a shaft drive XJ750 so smooth, loved it. Shaft drive might behave differently with the 14's torque....... but would be my preference.
Why GSX has smooth delivery on power, shaft on the FJR is great, and my old XJ900 probably the same as your XJ750.
Just remembered my other shaftie i had. 1950 LE Velocette Noddy. 149cc of 6 bhp. What a bike. So powerful the clutch slipped.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 04:55 PM
Just remembered my other shaftie i had. 1950 LE Velocette Noddy. 149cc of 6 bhp. What a bike. So powerful the clutch slipped.
Bangers & Cash sold one at auction for 2500 GBP on TV the other night.
Shaft drives aren't what they used to be - the tech is much improved nowadays Many of the previous engineering compromises have been resolved. The big block Honda VFR illustrates that well.
One inescapable fact though is that they do rob 'some' power from getting to the ground in comparison with a chain drive.
If the motivation for shaft drive is purely to reduce chain adjustment hassles - the chain drive on a single sided swingarm is easier to manage that a double sided swingarm.
Also single sided swingarms are cool.
Shaft drives do away with all the chain maintenance hassle so there is a big upside.
But they are heaver and that's a significant downside.
pity that belt drive never took off, never ridden one , but seems like a good idea
Belts are good, I've ridden an HD with them & they just work.
Quote from: VladTepes on Monday, 09 November 2020, 01:12 PM
Also single sided swingarms are cool.
Incorrect!
I tend to ask why half the suspension has fallen off, they look bloody daft.
I like single siders, three of my bikes have them. Removing wheels, tensioning chains and cleaning all easier with them.
Quote from: VladTepes on Monday, 09 November 2020, 01:12 PM
One inescapable fact though is that they do rob 'some' power from getting to the ground in comparison with a chain drive
Sure you wouldn't notice it with a full Akra and Yoshi system.
Quote from: steve porter on Monday, 09 November 2020, 03:31 PM
pity that belt drive never took off, never ridden one , but seems like a good idea
and yet there are chain conversion kits sold for Buells (the XB series etc) .
Probably more to do with the difficulty and expense in obtaining suitable belts now though given Harley is not (and has not for some time) been supporting them with parts.
I think that's more to do with available drive pully sizes, chains and sprockets are very easily change to give different ratios, belts and pullies are not.
Have posted this before but this is what l use use when adjusting my chain
I measure the same place with verniers when first setting up a new bike, or having changed chain & sprockets. For small adjustments I just count the flats of the bolt heads to keep it in line.
I came up with this idea (apologies to anyone else who may have come up with it before me) to solve a high speed stability issue I had at 250 + at Phillip Island. large one goes through the swingarm spindle and the small one goes through the axle and you measure the distance on both sides, worked a treat and I have used it on lots of bikes since, Haven`t bothered with the 14 yet as it seems fine, and I don`t ride it that fast anyway
(https://i.imgur.com/akzTKmZ.jpg)
@steve porter From a wheel balance kit
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Wednesday, 11 November 2020, 07:06 PM
@steve porter
From a wheel balance kit
No, I got the stainless rods from a steel place and had a mate with a lathe turn up the tapers for me.
Quote from: steve porter on Wednesday, 11 November 2020, 09:50 AM
I came up with this idea (apologies to anyone else who may have come up with it before me) to solve a high speed stability issue I had at 250 + at Phillip Island. large one goes through the swingarm spindle and the small one goes through the axle and you measure the distance on both sides, worked a treat and I have used it on lots of bikes since, Haven`t bothered with the 14 yet as it seems fine, and I don`t ride it that fast anyway
(https://i.imgur.com/akzTKmZ.jpg)
That's what I do on every bike with a two side swing arm to get it exactly straight, from then on I count the turns on the bolts. I only recheck it after a couple of years or after major surgery on the back end. Thanks for reminding me Steve, it's probably due a check around now.
I check mine with a vienier calipers.
:cheers:
Carbon fibre verniers? do they measure faster?
@Hooli free from work think it cost about £10 but it's close enough for me .
It's no faster as it's me using it 😂
Which of these do I need?
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=ek+chain+gsx1400&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=ek+chain
@grog knows EK chain. I use DID nowadays.
RK for me with gold plates :boogie:
Too difficult to reco. Im certainly no expert. Similar to tyres n brakes. My EK has worked well. ZVX3 is strongest chain, ZVX not far behind. Tensile strength of both more than others. Supersprox get good reviews, JT supposedly best. No idea as never used. If i was changing, EK with JT. Just IMO. Clean n lube would make most work i reckon.
How many chain links needed?
Would this one be correct?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/EK-Chain-Suzuki-GSX1400-2001-2009-530-NX-Ring-Met-Red-530ZVX3M4-122/283802468449?hash=item4213f20061:g:i58AAOSwZE1fCXu5
or maybe this chain & sprocket kit is a good option?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-GSX1400-DID-ZVMX-Gold-XRing-Super-Heavy-Duty-Chain-JT-RB-Sprocket-Kit/173744376023?hash=item2873f8c8d7:g:vcUAAOSwFoherHq1
(wait, just noticed that's DID not EK chain,its also described as ZVX though - that must be some sort of general nomenclature?)
116 Links Mike.
The EK one above has 122, you'd have to punch the pin out & remove 6 links. Quite do-able, just don't take too many out else it's too short n no more fit the bike.
The DID combo is all correct to go straight on & has the silent front sprocket.
but I like the red one ! :)
DID chains any good?
DID / EK / RK all top quality, I prefer JT sprockets though. Can't go wrong, just get a kit that is made for the 1402. 530 chain with 116 links
I've always in the past used Tsubaki chain as it just seems to last with limited adjustments.
I have bought Tsubaki chain direct from them and was cheaper, not for the 1400 but for some of my classic bikes and industrial machinery.
They where at Silverwater, Sydney last time I dealt with them.
The bike chain where for machinery as well ;)
I've used the Alpha chain.
https://tsubaki-rider.com/en/ (https://tsubaki-rider.com/en/)
Quote from: SFC1000 on Saturday, 14 November 2020, 09:03 PM
I've used the Alpha chain.
https://tsubaki-rider.com/en/ (https://tsubaki-rider.com/en/)
Which particular one mate, and where did you course it?
And what was your impression of it as compared with others - quality-wise and price comparison?
The ones I used to buy were from a bloke that had a Euro bike shop and after closing that was operating from his house at Kedron, then Stafford and since moving from Brisbane years ago I have lost contact with him. I believe he has shut up shop totally.
He recommended them and following his recommendation I found them better than others I tried. Bugger all adjustments and great wear.
The Alpha ones I bought used to be o ring, but I see now they are x ring.
The site I put up is the current one I found.
When I need to replace the chain on my bike I will be contacting the suppliers direct.
I dealt direct, wasn't a problem, as I said Silverwater/Lidcombe Sydney. Only difference was I put it through my business so save a few $.
Well i faffed around for over an hour last night adjusting the chain and got it to where I though was about right.
made sure everythign was aligned as much as I coudl manage. and buttoned it all back up.
Too ages because some of the bolts are a bugger to do up. The rear torque arm bolt especially - really hard to get any spanner onto the back of it and not even sure what size the nut is (that would have helped, I just couldn't seem to find one that fit properly.
I do have a nice big socket for the axle nut though so was able to torque that perfectly, and much easier than using the tool in the factory tool kit.
Anyway after all that, riding it out of the driveway this morning I rechecked and.... still too tight !
(Not as bad as it was, but still a tad too tight).
Arrghhh. There has to be an easier way.
Shouldnt be that hard Vlad, 10 minute job.
Did you put an old folded up cloth in between the rear sprocket & chain (turn the wheel by hand till the cloth is jamed about ½ way round the sprocket) prior to tightening everything up? Doing that pulls everything hard against the stops & keeps it there while you tighten it.
A trick from the forum. Think it was Stim who mentioned that, haven't seen him about for ages, since the old org.
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 12:42 PM
Too ages because some of the bolts are a bugger to do up. The rear torque arm bolt especially - really hard to get any spanner onto the back of it and not even sure what size the nut is (that would have helped, I just couldn't seem to find one that fit properly.
14 or 17mm, I can't recall. One bolt is the same both sides, the other end of the torque arm has one of each.
I've always found the chains tighten as you torque the axle nut. At a rough guess I think 1 flat on the adjusters is about 1/4" of tension, just back them off a touch, kick the wheel forwards to 'seat it' & nip the axle up to check.
Quote from: 😎KiwiCol on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:28 PM
Did you put an old folded up cloth in between the rear sprocket & chain (turn the wheel by hand till the cloth is jamed about ½ way round the sprocket) prior to tightening everything up? Doing that pulls everything hard against the stops & keeps it there while you tighten it.
A trick from the forum. Think it was Stim who mentioned that, haven't seen him about for ages, since the old org.
Yep did that.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:28 PM
Shouldnt be that hard Vlad, 10 minute job.
I wish.
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 08:39 PM
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 12:42 PM
Too ages because some of the bolts are a bugger to do up. The rear torque arm bolt especially - really hard to get any spanner onto the back of it and not even sure what size the nut is (that would have helped, I just couldn't seem to find one that fit properly.
14 or 17mm, I can't recall. One bolt is the same both sides, the other end of the torque arm has one of each.
I've always found the chains tighten as you torque the axle nut. At a rough guess I think 1 flat on the adjusters is about 1/4" of tension, just back them off a touch, kick the wheel forwards to 'seat it' & nip the axle up to check.
ta
Vlad, undo axle nut, back off each adjuster a couple of flats, dont worry about torque rod, will be ok. Kick wheel fwd a few times, rag in sprocket, give a couple of hard turns, tighten axle nut. Check freeplay, all on sidestand. If not enough , go again. Job done. Dont forget to tighten lock nuts on adjuster bolts, two spanners required. 👍