GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => General Technical discussion => Topic started by: Rod G on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 03:24 PM

Title: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rod G on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 03:24 PM
Just finished reading the Tech Tip header bolt removal.

I can imagine the anxiety associated with removing a broken bolt, but am curious just how many owners have experience this?

Is it frequently the problem?  I guess it has a lot to do with the time the bolts have been there.  :grin:  Rod G
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 04:01 PM
Certainly in the U.K. it is possibly because we have wetter colder weather than the Southern Hemisphere in general. It tends to happen more on the older bikes where headers may not have been removed and the bolts react with the head (stainless plus alloy is not a good mix!) and that Suzuki never put nickleslip on the bolts at the factory to stop that.
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Del on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 04:46 PM
I know that I had to drill 2 out on my K2 - bolts are made of toffee

done hunners on Kawasaki's and never snapped a stud

Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Red Biker on Saturday, 25 February 2017, 02:06 AM
I've Just done mine last week, took me 4 hours to remove the 8 bolts, slowly catchie Monkey style.
It was quite nerve racking when you consider the consequences!

This time next week they'll be Black so obviously worth it in the end  :hat:
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rod G on Saturday, 25 February 2017, 12:02 PM
I'm with you Bro!!   Given that everyone knows about galvanic corrosion, how crazy were Suzuki putting SS bolts into an alloy head without protection??  Built in obsolescence!!!   :angry: :angry: :angry:
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Mrg on Saturday, 25 March 2017, 02:34 PM
yes ive started to soak them in oil as ive got to do this soon ... ive got a new set to put on the bike for the summer and I am dreading this job  :sad:

as far as I know  they never been taken off ... the set that is on the bike now
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: froudy on Saturday, 25 March 2017, 09:45 PM
Plus Gas penetrating oil and lots of it.
I knock a 12mm multi point socket over the whole head of the Allen bolt and undo with 1/4 drive ratchet for ease of access.
The shock of knocking the socket on can help free the bolt too.

Done loads now..Some you get lucky and some you don't.
If at ANY time during removal it gets tighter and squeals, spray more Plus Gas on it and take it back in a little...Then try again :onya:

Good luck!
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: gsxbarmy on Saturday, 25 March 2017, 10:01 PM
I agree with Froudy - Plus Gas is brilliant stuff for this.

Also read this article

http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?topic=317.0
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rufus on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 05:36 AM
I just removed my headers and sheared off 4 of the 8 bolts  :angry:
But it "only" took 6 hours to drill one of them out.
The rest about an hour each  :)
Amazingly I re-tapped the threads and apart from one being a bit crap, they are all ok.
It was the stock exhaust, don't know if the bolts were stock, they were stainless.

Next I'm off to track down and have words with the dimwit who soaked the front sprocket in Red Loctite!
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 08:32 AM
Quote from: Rufus on Sunday, 26 March  2017, 05:36 AM
I just removed my headers and sheared off 4 of the 8 bolts  :angry:
But it "only" took 6 hours to drill one of them out.
The rest about an hour each  :)
Amazingly I re-tapped the threads and apart from one being a bit crap, they are all ok.
It was the stock exhaust, don't know if the bolts were stock, they were stainless.

Next I'm off to track down and have words with the dimwit who soaked the front sprocket in Red Loctite!

Are you sure the front sprocket isn't orange loctite as that what Suzuki apply. But if it is red loctite Rufus - good luck!!
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Cykik on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 09:06 AM
I took my original headers off (k2) soaked for a week in plus gas, moved oilcooler out of way &  all header bolts came out ok, so there is hope!!. Just be gentle  removing bolts..
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rod G on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 06:45 PM
FWIW.  I was taught that with suspect, corroded bolts to torque them up a fly fart until they crack the bond then undo them.  I absolutely agree with pre-soaking for as long as can be allowed prior to removal.  :grin: :grin:
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 07:03 PM
Quote from: Rod G on Sunday, 26 March  2017, 06:45 PM
FWIW.  I was taught that with suspect, corroded bolts to torque them up a fly fart until they crack the bond then undo them.  I absolutely agree with pre-soaking for as long as can be allowed prior to removal.  :grin: :grin:

I agree that is one approach with which I agree - but I wouldn't like to try it on header bolts, as essentially you have stainless bolts into an alloy head - I'd be just wary of stripping the thread in the head myself.

If I was going to do it though, I would apply some heat around the bolt first to allow the alloy to expand a little, then if the bolt wouldn't move, try a socket on an impact driver to try breaking the "lock" that way.

All after a liberal soaking in Plus Gas (preferably) or WD40 for as long a period beforehand as possible!!!
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Mick_J on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 07:07 PM
If you have a diesel car, diesel is a fantastic penetrating oil, stinks a bit but so does plus gas.
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 26 March 2017, 09:50 PM
Hmm that's a new one to file away  :onya:
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rod G on Monday, 27 March 2017, 10:27 AM
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 26 March  2017, 07:03 PM
Quote from: Rod G on Sunday, 26 March  2017, 06:45 PM
FWIW.  I was taught that with suspect, corroded bolts to torque them up a fly fart until they crack the bond then undo them.  I absolutely agree with pre-soaking for as long as can be allowed prior to removal.  :grin: :grin:

I agree that is one approach with which I agree - but I wouldn't like to try it on header bolts, as essentially you have stainless bolts into an alloy head - I'd be just wary of stripping the thread in the head myself.

If I was going to do it though, I would apply some heat around the bolt first to allow the alloy to expand a little, then if the bolt wouldn't move, try a socket on an impact driver to try breaking the "lock" that way.

All after a liberal soaking in Plus Gas (preferably) or WD40 for as long a period beforehand as possible!!!


Given that galvanic corrosion is well understood between stainless steel and alloys, that Suzuki, 1. failed to use a thread sealer of any type. 2. used SS in the first place.  A cynic would suspect they were building in the sale of new cylinder heads and the like!!
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Egg 'n' Bacon on Tuesday, 28 March 2017, 07:50 AM
This scared the living sh1t outta me, so when I had to do it recently (76,000 miles, all weathers) I undid the bolts over the course of a week.
This allowed any heat generated to dissipate before the next turn of the rachet.  Plus loads of soaking with WD40 in meantimes.
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Mrg on Friday, 07 April 2017, 08:14 AM
Hi all well I took of my header pipes today ,after a soak all week of spray and heat .... these pipes were on from the start of the bike ... and three bolts snapped off at the head Allen key heads. All the rest came out ok . A bit of a struggle but out now ...so now I've got three bolts left in  :cry2:
With about a quarter inch left on them ,, so I've never drilled out or retaped any bolts at all ....
Old pips had to come off new set to go on 
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Del on Friday, 07 April 2017, 04:03 PM
Hi bad news on the snapped bolt front - if it was me before I would cut and drill I would try to weld a nut onto the top of the broken stud - I found this worked a lot better - the heat from the weld really does free off the stud and its a lot easier than drilling them
Like you I had 3 snap off - I got 2 of them out fairly easily by the welding method only 1 was a PITA as I needed to drill and retap that one
but as been said cut off the old stud center punch to get it well centered and start with a small drill and work your way up

Good Luck fella
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rufus on Friday, 07 April 2017, 05:13 PM
Hi MRG
I sheared off 4 of my header bolts
I filed the broken bolts flat, centre punched and drilled the bolt out with a battery drill and lots of patience.
Apart from 1 they drilled out perfectly. If you use the right size drill you can drill the bolt core out leaving just the threads that will easily wind out.
Then I ran a tap through the threads.
It did take a week tho  :laugh:
Good quality drill bits are essential
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Mrg on Friday, 07 April 2017, 09:11 PM
thank guys ...    :onya:  I don't have welding gear sorry to say else id go for that,   :frustrated:  so I will have to go with the long drill ex and.... slowly slowly catch a monkey time  :sad: 
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: RickC on Friday, 07 April 2017, 09:53 PM
Good luck getting the studs out. I'd try a bit of heat before drilling them and try using vice grips to turn them.

There are mobile stud extraction services which can be quite reasonable depending on your level of expertise.

Once they're out, I would put in some galvanized studs and some copper nuts https://www.belmetric.com/hex-with-flange-c-3_51_53/ncf8x10-copper-flange-nut-class-10-p-6419.html?zenid=u66brbcorh97sab54mev8dm3n2.

The studs on my exhaust had a little bit of galling when I took mine off, the studs and copper nuts work a lot better.
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Graeme Carolyn Cummings on Saturday, 01 July 2017, 11:12 PM
is it best to use the old header bolts or new ones
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Rod G on Sunday, 02 July 2017, 10:17 PM
Quote from: Rufus on Friday, 07 April  2017, 05:13 PM


Apart from 1 they drilled out perfectly. If you use the right size drill you can drill the bolt core out leaving just the threads that will easily wind out.
Then I ran a tap through the threads.
It did take a week tho  :laugh:
Good quality drill bits are essential

FYI, you can purchase reverse drills the cut counter clockwise.  This may well remove the broken stud by itself.  Try them ext time. :) 
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: seth on Sunday, 02 July 2017, 11:03 PM
Quote from: Graeme Carolyn Cummings on Saturday, 01 July  2017, 11:12 PM
is it best to use the old header bolts or new ones

I'd always replace with new bolts .
Title: Re: Header bolt removal
Post by: Mrg on Monday, 03 July 2017, 02:06 AM
Yes I had new bolts in and the old went in the bin  as said a good quality drill bit works well I got new drill bits to get mine out ,so much easier,and take your time as said to me before and it good advice  :onya:

And on the recap side that is a slow job to in a couple of turns then out oil to clean out and then start again I did it this way and mine went ok .and it was my first time doing all this ,

All this was advice from the masters on here cheers guys  :cheers: