Figured I'd start my own thread, show all my work and all my questions in one central location. I'll be repeating myself a bit as I drag everything I've done into this one central thread but it'll stop threads going off topic as I ask questions as I think of them in other threads.
This weekend I'll be polishing my new engine side covers which I'll detail below but for now I've mentioned how I touched up my barrels and fins with high temp BBQ paint and they look good so before I put the new polished covers on I thought I'd touch up the rest of the block but I have a few questions.
In the pics below you'll notice that despite being brushed with cold soapy water (as suggested) the white muck still remains. Is it ok to paint over that? I have some thinners I can brush on but am worried it'll splash onto areas it shouldn't, such as the frame...etc. I'm not after a show quality job, just want to re-blacken the block/case. What steps should I take before spraying on the BBQ black (shown below)? Or is it ok to just clean with soapy water, dry off then spray right over it?
It's also on the top of the engine. A bit more worried about spraying up there but I would like to get the engine looking even and black.
A firm / stiff bristle brush might shift some more of that dirt, some degreaser might also be worth a go & finish off with a water blaster? Else just paint it & see how it goes.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Friday, 16 October 2020, 01:39 PM
A firm / stiff bristle brush might shift some more of that dirt, some degreaser might also be worth a go & finish off with a water blaster? Else just paint it & see how it goes.
Ok cool. I've already tried all those things except I don't have a high pressure water blaster I've inly got a hose nozzle jet thing. I'm wary of blasting high pressure water but I could always go down to the car wash and give just the bottom of the block a quick careful blast. So I guess that must be some permanent type of corrosion which will accept paint hopefully.
I'll try once more before giving it a quick blast of high temp paint this weekend. Can't wait. But worried about the head covers though. Not trying to win any awards. Just trying to give it some youth back. It bothers me to see it.
S100 would fix it easily but now hard to find in Oz. Harley engine brightener supposedly as good, havent tried yet. Thats what id be trying, i know how good s100 is, easy to use, comes up like new black motor.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 16 October 2020, 02:30 PM
S100 would fix it easily but now hard to find in Oz. Harley engine brightener supposedly as good, havent tried yet. Thats what id be trying, i know how good s100 is, easy to use, comes up like new black motor.
Okay so I may not even need painting? That would be better I was thinking of oiling it up but that's not a very healthy solution. There are also some chips where the paint has actually come off and there is corrosion so I'm guessing the blackener wouldn't solve that but it might be useful for the head cover where I don't really want to paint
25 bucks at the Hardly shop.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 16 October 2020, 04:48 PM
25 bucks at the Hardly shop.
$24.75. They also said they think S100 is not being made anymore. Not not being imported, not being made.
Off to repco for a few cans of degreaser so I can clean the front sprocket area while replacing the left cover. When I was blessing my clutch I was horrified at the amount of funk and sand.
Might also buy some gear oil and kerosene while there ;-)
Kero is cheaper at the local supermarket, Repco & Supercheap think it's gold.
Ok, this surprised me! I started on the side cover polish this afternoon and got a nice surprise. All I did was strip off the clear coat and just doing that revealed a nicely polished set of covers. WTH? Am I imagining it or was the clear coat covering a half decent polish? I swear that as delivered from Suzuki parts they had that "semi-brushed" finish that is common throughout the GSX1400. It's there on the cam end "covers" the headlight mounts and of course the engine side covers but under that awful clear coat sits a nicely polished metal surface. Did Suzuki intend for the side covers to have a chrome like polish?
Keep in mind that I have not touched these covers with anything. I've only removed the clear coat with that generic paint stripper. I applied two coats but it almost all came off with the first application. I did the second one to make sure. I was so surprised I had to take a video to show you guys what was hiding underneath that "brushed factory finish".
The first photo shows the covers out of the bag as they arrived from Suzuki, Then the stripped covers but unpolished by me then some of the blistering clear coat for eek value. I used a soft nylon brush to agitate and rinse the parts in warm water (yep, my shed has a hot water tap) to get the stripper off but that's it. The second photos are of the parts after the factory clear coating has been removed and the video speaks for itself.
This is a fascinating discovery to me. I could almost slap on a few coats of ceramic coating and call it done but I'm going to give them my best polish using all my skills and materials and my new Dremel thanks to and motivated by
@Snapey dig. All in good fun.
Good post SA, mine has the faded and crazed look on the leading edges, and I am going to ask how best to bring them back to life! Yours are looking good mate. :onya:
Quote from: sandman_2091 on Saturday, 17 October 2020, 10:41 PM
Good post SA, mine has the faded and crazed look on the leading edges, and I am going to ask how best to bring them back to life! Yours are looking good mate. :onya:
Wait till you see them now!
Ok so I've just spent the last few hours polishing, dropping :facepalm: (I was holding them with one hand, and holding the polisher in the other hand and...yep you could have predicted it) , and re-polishing them again. I tried the dremel but I slipped and damaged them as I knew I would. Ended up doing them mostly by hand and with my 3inch Milwaukee Rotary polisher (M12-BPS). I used a large piece of soft foam as a working surface. Touched some areas with 800 grit, then 1,200 grit, then 2,000 grit, then 3,000 trizact disc on a thin foam backing pad, then autosol dabbed onto a cutting pad, then 3,000 grit cutting compound on the same cutting pad, then 12,000 grit on a polishing pad then buff with a microfibre cloth. They're not perfect but I think they're a little better than the amazingly shiny condition I discovered in the previous post (under the clear coating).
Tomorrow I'll be giving them a triple coat of ceramic so they stay shiny for years (hopefully), painting the block a bit and bolting them on.
...and now pics and video!
They have come up a treat
Ok, umm, wow!
That Harley engine brightener really worked! I will not be paining my block. It worked so well I got a bit carried away and applied it to every black surface I could find. Didn't want to spray it directly onto my rims so I sprayed some onto a microfibre cloth and wiped them down and again...wow! Look freshly painted.
What's in this stuff? It made my shoes squeak as I walked on the lino of my garage floor and I can feel it (sort of) on my hands still but when I touch and wipe the black bits on the engine it feel neither damp or oily.
Seems a bit too good to be true and if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes I'd probably doubted it. It reminds me of that gunk used car dealers spray all over engines to make them look fresh but this feel dry to the touch. Reminds me of armour all - hope it's nothing like it because that would be disappointing but it immediately blackened and refreshed the whole engine. I'm stunned to be frank. Great tip! Thanks
@grog! Great tip!! Got some before and after photos below to show the difference. The front of the block looks a billion times better but still not perfect but I'm not going to let perfect become the enemy of good. Not going to put this into a show but it looks much much younger already. I highly recommend anyone who misses S100 to give this a try.
Ok, so I'll be installing my brand new polished engine covers next but staring at that SUZUKI lettering I want those letters black. My concern is I have a fresh raw beautifully polished surface and I have to both clean and paint those letters. But how? I don't want to hit them with thinners (or alcohol) but they must be cleaned somehow before I apply the paint or if I don't paint them and leave them raw (opinions please) so I'm going to have to do that somehow.
I have both Hi-Temp engine paint (pictured below) as well as common garden variety shiny black spray paint. I don't have a tiny brush but I do have a small syringe that I used to apply ear drops into doggo. Thought "this syringe will come in handy one day, might keep it". One idea I had was to lay a strip of masking tape across the letters and carefully slice out the letters with a sharp razor. That will allow me to use an old tooth brush and alcohol (or thinners?) to clean then spray them but not sure how well I'll be able to cut around all the letters. The Hi-Temp black engine paint drys faster and is meant for high temperature applications but I suspect the normal spray paint will do the trick too. What about just using a black felt marker? That's safe but is it a good idea?
Given the sensitive nature of the freshly polished surface I'm leaning towards the relative safety of a permanent felt marker to be honest. Is that too hack of me? Maybe raw will look ok? It is the way that Suzy intended after all.
Edit: Just had a thought, what about those paint touch up pens?
Edit #2: If I fill the letters with paint and use the "wipe with thinners" method, how long do I wait before I wipe? Immediately or let it dry to the touch (20 minutes with the enamel but only 5 minutes with the High-Temp paint)? Or straight away while it's still wet?
Made an executive decision to use High Temp engine paint - semi satin finish which is the same paint I used to paint the engine barrels (finned area). Made a few mistakes though. I used a cotton bud and sprayed high temp engine paint into a container (btoom of a orange juice bottle) and dabbed the paint into the lettering (pic 1 below). I applied two coats (dabs) then eventually ended up carefully wiping away the excess using cotton buds dabbed in thinners.
The first time I tried to wipe I made a mess because I used too much thinners onto a rag and just started wiping in broad strokes all over the lettering
like a moron and it flowed into the lettering removing and smearing the paint all over the place. I modified my technique the next time around (after filling the letters in again) by carefully dabbing the cotton buds into thinners then dabbing the excess thinners off the bud onto a cloth then gently wiping carefully around the edges of the letters with the slightly damp cotton bud. That worked. Again, it's not perfect but it'll do.
And now pics and a video!...
@Del SA14 could use a bit of your expert knowledge & guidance here, if ya don't mind. :onya:
FYI, Del is a master at stuff like this. :notworthy:
I reckon hes going pretty well on his own Col. Amazing job. SA that engine brightener lasts as well as works. Takes ages for it to start to fade. Id prob give yours another go in a few weeks, just to make perfect. 👍👍
Quote from: KiwiCol on Sunday, 18 October 2020, 04:09 PM
@Del SA14 could use a bit of your expert knowledge & guidance here, if ya don't mind. :onya:
FYI, Del is a master at stuff like this. :notworthy:
Awesome! Any guidance is appreciated. I'm kind of finished now though. First coat of ceramic drying. Actually it's the second coat because I wasn't fast enough on the first coat and buffedd off the excess after it had flashed too hard so it left some streaks. Fortunately, I use this ceramic coating all the time when restoring headlights so I just re-applied another coat and wiped it off quicker and streaks are gone. Waiting on the first coat to be dry enough (20 minutes) before applying the second then third coats. That should give me about 15-20 microns of protection.
Even though I've checked with the rep regarding coating metals and he says it'll work great this is still experimental but if it works it'll be a major breakthrough in maintaining polished metal surfaces. It's like a glass coating (SiO2 is literally liquid glass/quartz coating) so the finish should be undisturbed as opposed to paint which has a low light transmission spec which would explain why the polished surface was dulled and looked "brushed" from the factory. Hopefully this will solve the problem. I don't ride every day (only insured for two days a week) and it won't be in wet weather so we're going to have to wait a while before we find out if it does indeed protect the aluminium from corrosion however this is the exact stuff that's used to coat stainless steel surgical instruments so I have high hopes.
But even if it fails to protect it long term (7-10 years is what's mentioned on the bottle) so I'll have to polish the engine covers again, no big deal but I use this stuff every day in my business and it works wonders on headlights (I offer a lifetime guarantee on those) so I'm pretty confident it'll help retard if not eliminate normal corrosion. My headlight mounts still look as polished as the day I did them which was nearly three months ago.
Science mother fuckers! lol
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 18 October 2020, 04:38 PM
I reckon hes going pretty well on his own Col. Amazing job. SA that engine brightener lasts as well as works. Takes ages for it to start to fade. Id prob give yours another go in a few weeks, just to make perfect. 👍👍
Of all the things I've done this weekend in this light resto project that was the most stunning by far. You are THE man! Literally stunned. Engine looks so good and you helped me avoid masking and painting...hassle. I polish every day - although not metal - but that was serendipitous to the max! Such a great tip.
Have I mentioned how much I love forums?
Can't wait to bolt them on in next! While I'm waiting for the ceramic to dry between coats I'm off to read the thread about removing covers. There's a few gotchas apparently and yeah, I'll be careful with my fingers on the magneto side. Got gaskets and Suzuki sealant and torque wrench set and waiting. Have to be careful with the bolts and oil keeper washes. Roger.
Glad you liked it SA. It sure is magic stuff, im also happy the Hardly stuff as good as S100, must get some. I was getting worried about no S100, freight from USA was stupid price. Best products ive used on 14, things that work. S100, VMX gear Oil, Gulf Western Oil, Bowdens Fully Slick, Autosol, Wurth HHS, Cat Crap and my new digital tyre inflator.
Easy side done! Looks ace!
A couple of things. After giving the gasket surface a light emery and blow out I installed it without sealant, dry gasket, nipped up to 8 lb/ft in a star shaped pattern Is that correct? Not entirely sure where to put the sealant but I'm guessing it's on the other side somewhere although I did see a spot at the top of the cavity I could have put a small smear near where a plastic block goes through the housing space at about the 11 o'clock position. Is that where the sealant goes? I left it off because there didn't seem to be any on the original. It came off pretty easily but it's a break in the gasket surface so my instinct tells me a smear there would be smart.
Ok, a bit not sure what exactly to do now in so far as the loose pin goes. Will re-read instructions but any tips and suggestions are appreciated.
The stator and loom hold down bolts will be done up with 7.4 lb/ft and I'll clean (with brake cleaner) and apply a thin smear of loctite 243 but I'm slightly confused now because it looks like it's the big bolt in the centre that needs the loctite - not the 4 stator hold down bolts. As for the sealant, I'm guessing I'll put a dab/smear all around the rubber electrical isolator block?
Also, the gasket was really stuck on the old cover. Should I be smearing sealant onto the gasket surfaces? If so, both sides or just the cover side? What about the right hand side cover?
I'm going to stop here until I get some advice from you guys.
Get a screwdriver as a lever & use it turn the large gear on the left (the stator magnet) anti-clockwise about half a tooth, as you do that you'll feel that pin pop back into it's socket. It'll stay in place then until you next take the cover off.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 18 October 2020, 07:56 PM
Get a screwdriver as a lever & use it turn the large gear on the left (the stator magnet) anti-clockwise about half a tooth, as you do that you'll feel that pin pop back into it's socket. It'll stay in place then until you next take the cover off.
Ok, I've added some text to my post above. So all that looseness is not good? If I turn the large cog all that will fit back into something and feel tight again?
Found this in the e-manual so I know where to apply the sealant. Still not sure about all that loose gearing and pin though. I can see where the pin slots into the cover so I'm guessing it'll all sit still once I slide the cover on. The large ring gear turns clockwise but not anti clockwise. I'm guessing this has something to do with the way the starter works...lol noob.
Still not sure about what needs loctite. Which is the bolt that came loose? Is the bolts that go into the cover that hold all the copper? Excuse my ignorance of the terminology - I hope you know what I mean. If not I'll wait until I'm clear and will make a movie showing what I'm not sure about.
Got it! Thanks Hooli! Now, I just need to understand which bolts need the loctite?
Ok, I think I'm on top of it now. Found this...
Quote from: froudy on Friday, 08 December 2017, 09:36 PM
If I could add something to this post Dave.
When you remove the generator cover for the fist time for whatever reason, remove the bolts that secure the stator to the cover. Clean them and apply threadlock before refitting. This will ensure that they do not come undone and chew the stator up. It's happened to a member on here recently and was also a common fault on the DRZ400.
All done! But will she start? Did I forget something? Was I supposed to lubricate that starter gear shaft?
Oops. While looking for camshaft chain wear specs ;-) I found this. I knew putting it on dry wasn't right. It's an easy off and on again though. Even when you're not helping you're helping
@Hooli.
Time to attack those forks. Here's what I'm starting with...
Bought some tie downs so I can tie the bike to the roof to remove the front wheel. Started with a brass wire wheel on a drill. Now I'm hitting them with emery paper. Next 800 grit wet and dry, then 1,200, then 2,000 and finally 3,000 then 3,000 compound and Autosol on a rotary buff then 12,000 polish on a buffing pad. Should come out half decent, not aiming for every square mm to be perfect. As long as it's shiny from a step away I'll be happy.
As of this post I've finished the wire brushing and started on the emery cloth. I'm about 3/4 way through one fork with emery. Just got to keep reminding myself, the more I sand the better it'll look. Shine is in the sanding not the polishing. Polishing is the last 5% of the job.
Levitating :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir:
@SA14
He king the tyre tread at the bottom of the tyre :stir: :stir: :onya:
It's great therapy! Doggo keeps me company and I'm doing this all withOUT beer! Weird, I know but I've run out.
Might do a small section all the way to polish to see what it's going to come up like just to keep me motivated. Hopefully I'll post a pic tonight. Should have them finished tomorrow.
A buffing machine & one of these are a must.
https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/company-au/all-3m-products/?N=5002385+4294942426&rt=rud
Quote from: Snapey on Tuesday, 20 October 2020, 09:19 PM
A buffing machine & one of these are a must.
https://www.3m.com.au/3M/en_AU/company-au/all-3m-products/?N=5002385+4294942426&rt=rud
Some sort of machine is for sure. I get reasonable results with the same machine, pads, compounds and polishes I use to restore and polish headlights. Sanding is the key. A polish won't remove heavy scratches. As long as it rotates and holds some kind of gritty compound it works just fine. I've posted this a few times but this is what I use after I'm finished wet sanding to flat. I find the small 3 inch format gives me more flexibility. I only run it in low (1st) gear at 1,850rpm max but usually throttle it down slower to start.
You're just fucking around with that lot. You could have bought a machine with what they cost you.
I got sick of converting my bench grinders for polishing so I bought this at about half of todays price. It's had a hammering & still going strong. Buy the Scotch Brite wheel to go with the buffs supplied with the machine & you'll never look back.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Industrial-polishing-machine-with-taper-spindles-heavy-pedestal/274466225935?hash=item3fe7763f0f:g:1uoAAOSw2zBfP3Pe
Quote from: Snapey on Tuesday, 20 October 2020, 09:51 PM
You're just fucking around with that lot. You could have bought a machine with what they cost you.
I got sick of converting my bench grinders for polishing so I bought this at about half of todays price. It's had a hammering & still going strong. Buy the Scotch Brite wheel to go with the buffs supplied with the machine & you'll never look back.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Industrial-polishing-machine-with-taper-spindles-heavy-pedestal/274466225935?hash=item3fe7763f0f:g:1uoAAOSw2zBfP3Pe
It cost me $250 and has paid for itself about 1,000 times over. It's what I have and been using very effectively in my business as a headlight restorer/polisher. It actually works brilliantly. It spins and is nimble. No need for a massive 6 inch disc. All I need is something that spins and those pads are great. My results are pretty good I think actually. Plus, it'd be hard to hold the bike up to that pedestal machine and I'm not about to dismantle my entire front end when it's not necessary. But each to their own. That machine would be good for doing large open pieces that can be held but useless for doing on bike work like the forks.
One side finished. Not 100% perfect but compared to what I started with I'm stoked!
Looks great, bit of your ceramic coating & hopefully it'll stay that way. Must actually get round to giving mine a spruce up as it's been a while, but it's coming up boating & fishing time, so . . .
Fork legs looking good, i would like to get mine polished at some stage.
Couple of years back i had a Buell X1 which had polished front forks. When i took the bike in to have new forks seals fitted, the mechanic was non too pleased... 'Who ever polished those ******* forks didn't strip them first or knew what they were doing !! The forks must of got so hot the seals were practically welded in! An absolute nightmare.'
Worth a caution.
Quote from: Milts on Wednesday, 21 October 2020, 05:19 AM
Fork legs looking good, i would like to get mine polished at some stage.
Couple of years back i had a Buell X1 which had polished front forks. When i took the bike in to have new forks seals fitted, the mechanic was non too pleased... 'Who ever polished those ******* forks didn't strip them first or knew what they were doing !! The forks must of got so hot the seals were practically welded in! An absolute nightmare.'
Worth a caution.
My polisher is pretty low speed but I'll keep an eye out on the temperature when I do the next one. I know they can generate some heat but hopefully not that much. I use a fair bit of polish to keep the pads lubricated. But it's not a warning I've ever heard before so good to know. Thanks.
Been sanding for a while this morning. Here's a contrast photo to illustrate between the wire brushed finish at the bottom of the right leg and the emery finish I'm after at the top. The polished left leg (on the right in this photo) being used as inspiration.
Emery sanding takes the longest as each finer grit takes less time than the one before. This is about two hours worth of sanding (by hand) just on the top section you see here.
Quote from: Milts on Wednesday, 21 October 2020, 05:19 AM
Fork legs looking good, i would like to get mine polished at some stage.
Couple of years back i had a Buell X1 which had polished front forks. When i took the bike in to have new forks seals fitted, the mechanic was non too pleased... 'Who ever polished those ******* forks didn't strip them first or knew what they were doing !! The forks must of got so hot the seals were practically welded in! An absolute nightmare.'
Worth a caution.
Another Buell owner I had an M2 for 11 years
Quote from: SA14 on Tuesday, 20 October 2020, 09:57 PMPlus, it'd be hard to hold the bike up to that pedestal machine and I'm not about to dismantle my entire front end when it's not necessary.
You've got the wheel out and the mudguard removed to do what you're doing so it's nearly all dismantled now. Each fork leg will slide out once you loosen 4 socket screws. One minute with the Scotch Brite wheel and you have the same emery finish that took you two hours by hand. It's also a good time to service the forks.
Quote from: Snapey on Wednesday, 21 October 2020, 07:22 PM
You've got the wheel out and the mudguard removed to do what you're doing so it's nearly all dismantled now. Each fork leg will slide out once you loosen 4 socket screws. One minute with the Scotch Brite wheel and you have the same emery finish that took you two hours by hand. It's also a good time to service the forks.
Good to know, yeah I've used emery wheels when I was a welder, they're good I agree but if you knew me you'd know it was a major friggin victory to even remove the wheel in the first place. Worried about this, that the other and what not. I'm reasonably mechanically minded but also super nervous of doing something wrong or getting in over my head. Things are easy when you know how but I only removed the wheel after I stumbled across
this video of a guy removing the wheel (//Up5c8D7iYv4) to change his wobbly front discs and I thought "well that doesn't look very hard at all!" so I gave it a go armed with everything I thought I'd need (had to buy tie down straps to suspend the bike). Here's an example of how ignorant I am. My first intention was to just remove the mudguard so I unbolted it and tried to take it off just to get better access to some of the tubes..."oh, got to take the wheel off to get the mudguard off - dowf". That's when I checked that video again which gave me a few good tips as well that I hadn't thought of.
As with the dremel I'd also be worried about marking the forks or leaving flat spots if I used a powered emery wheel, As it was I wasn't sure what damage the wire wheel would do but I carefully touched it a bit then proceeded when it was apparent it was fairly harmless. I wasn't complaining about it taking 2 hours trhough I can see how it would have appeared that way. Although it would have been nice to be done faster at the snap of my fingers I didn't mind taking my time, and by hand (even though my fingers do ache a little now) I'm sure no harm was done and I'm pretty happy with the results. I'd still have to get in with my fingers around the intricate bits anyway but it's nearly done now. Just going out to the shed after this post to finish with 2,000 then 3,000 trizact before the final polishing sequence.
I also rang my suspension guy and checked with him about the heat and he doubted I'd generate enough heat at 1,800 rpm and suggested the stuck fork seals were more likely a dry install than an overheat from polishing issue. Also good to know.
Should be finished and posting pics tonight. I'm on the home stretch now. I would love a pedestal buff like that though. I'm sure I'd find a use for it. I've already had PMs to do covers for someone but my method is (obviously) not commercially viable. That Pedestal (with enough practice) might make short work of my old covers though. I'd need to practice before taking anyone's money and this is my first major metal polishing experiment.
I do appreciate your input though and the dremel came in handy and worked beautifully for polishing in the nooks and crannies of the caliper mounts. Restoration's coming along nicely though, I don;t mind putting in the time and hard work. Gets me closer to the bike for whatever that's worth.
Done. First ceramic has flashed. Waiting 20-30 minutes between coats. I'll give them three heavy coats then re-assemble.
Last pic for comparison.
Done.
@SA14 Great work, excellent write up and photos that accompany a lot of your postsings Very much appreciated :notworthy:
Quote from: Milts on Thursday, 22 October 2020, 08:15 AM
@SA14
Great work, excellent write up and photos that accompany a lot of your postsings Very much appreciated :notworthy:
I'm just glad someone's interested in seeing my work and feeling the love I have for this amazing motorbike. When I got it it was a sorry piece of machinery, having been abandoned to sit and corrode outside in the open (near an ocean!) for years but I'm slowly getting there. I know I ask a lot of silly questions that must make a few people sigh and shake their head but I'm really passionate about this and love working it. I'm
really grateful for all the help and support both out in the open and via private message. It's probably been the single most exciting mechanical adventure of my life.
Took it out into the sun today (finished up at 3am last night after struggling with mounting the front wheel for hours. Lots of rooky goodness but I nutted it out in the end. Torqued it all up. I do have questions about a couple of things but hopefully the wheel won't fall off or the brakes fail on me this afternoon while I go out for a ride. Might need extra string sunglasses with all the chromey shine though.
And now, more pics and a video!...
Next job, learn to video without my fat fingers covering the lens and think about restoring the headstem/dash alloys. After that I'm done...said no GSX1400 owner ever.
Quick reminder of the condition of the aluminium when I got the bike.
2 years of sitting by the ocean (1st owner) then 3 more years after that sitting in a shed unwashed after a road trip (2nd owner) will do this...
Credit to the 2nd owner though, it was a dry garage and he protected the fuel system with a full-to-the-brim tank and some fuel conditioner at least. People have all sorts of reasons for doing things and motorcycles aren't the most important things in people's lives all the time. I get that but just saying...it wasn't in great condition when I bought it although mechanically it seems fine so far and the price reflected it's cosmetic condition. I'm not the mechanically minded dude but I do know how to clean stuff. The engine is quiet (except for a pesky ticking that develops after long ride) and with how it's looking now I know I got a screaming bargain.
You've done well mate, but nobody would have wanted to steal it before you had at it
SA, should be proud of what youve done. Looks good now👏
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 22 October 2020, 05:46 PM
SA, should be proud of what youve done. Looks good now👏
Thanks, I am a bit chuffed truth be told. But it doesn't take too much make up to make a beautiful girl look even more beautifuller. Manuals and the proper tools help.
Took me a long time to re-fit the front wheel again though. Couldn't figure out why the axle was hard to push through the wheel. Had to wash up, come back inside and do some researching to figure out what I was doing wrong. In that video I linked to above he mentioned something I missed the first few times. If you don't tighten the hold down bolts on the nut it'll just spin and sure enough I'd left them loose. Moronic human. Tightened them up but still it was really hard to push through and again it wouldn't screw in, I stuck my finger into the nut hole (which sooo reminds me of a party I went to in the early 80s) and I could feel it was close but juggling the weight of the wheel and trying to push the axle through and trying to turn the axle - it was all just too tight (see previous party reference). Something was drastically wrong. What could it be? This is an axle two holes and a wheel for crying out loud! I was losing confidence. Had to borrow some imaginary cheering on from you guys to push on and push on I did.
I thought, maybe I have the wheel on backwards but nope, both the tyre and the wheel had arrows pointing in the correct direction. Out with the wheel again to test the axle in the hub and it glided through and spun beautifully, tried again but no way. It got tight near the end and just wouldn't spin. I remember the axle coming off pretty easily. It shouldn't be hard to slip through and turn. I had to stop and think. What was I doing wrong? Checked the manual, no clues there. It said "just shove it in and twist you moron, what's wrong with you?!". Came inside for more searching but came up blank again.
I was reminded of Occam's razor. Which states paraphrasically that when there are multiple explanations the simplest solution no matter how unlikely is probably correct. What was happening Things weren't lining up and there it was. The simplest solution. Line things up. Hmmm, line things up. What's not lining up? The axle with it's nut so I removed the wheel and tried to just install the axle without the wheel and sure enough they weren't lining up but why? Because (you moron!) I'd been twisting the forks while polishing and assumed (there's mother!) that things would just re-align themselves magically.
I had bolted up the mudguard and tightened the bolts (forgetting to slide the brake line clamps in as well - slap) but had assumed that that would also re-align the axles holes. It hadn't and they were twisted out of synch. I lossed everything up again. slipped the axle and axle nut into each fork and twisted the forks until the axle lined up and screwed itself nicely and smoothly into the axle nut and THEN bolted up the mudguard (not forgetting the brake line hose clamps this time. The axle then unscrewed just as easily because it was all lined up again this time in tune with the axle line. I bolted up and torqued the axle nut holding clamp and then unscrewed the axle, wiggled the wheel back in place (not forgetting to smear a bit of general purpose grease onto the axle and bearing seal surfaces like I'd forgotten to do the first time) and it all glided together and screwed in nicely. Phew.
Of course I forgot to check if I'd put the wheel on backwards and luckily I hadn't...lol
By now it's like 2am but I was so close I could taste the bugs so I brought out the big muther torque wrench hooked up the 17mm socket onto the multi step nut tool and heaved on it until I clicked at 74 ft/lbs, torqued the axle locking bolts and spun the wheel. It spun smooth and true. Time for the calipers. They slid on easily enough but I looked at the bolts and they had a bit of powder residue on them and I thought "mmm, could that be loctite?" Off with the bolts and caliper and into the vice with the bolts for a wire brush, brake cleaner spray and a dab of loctite 243 for good measure. Even though nowhere anyone mentions loctiteing the caliper bolts I figured that front brakes are reasonably important and it would be undesirable if they fell off.
Around 3am I was finished and had learned a LOT about a procedure I had incorrectly assumed (hi mother!) would go fairly simply. Today I rode around for a few hours and didn't die of brakes or wheels falling off so I'd call that a result.
Each fork took about 10 hours + screw ups and research (carry the four) = about a 24 hour job...lol Still, lotta fun and the bike looks amazing and I have more confidence in my mechabilities.
The End. Yip!
Quote from: steve porter on Thursday, 22 October 2020, 01:51 PM
You've done well mate, but nobody would have wanted to steal it before you had at it
Haha, good point and thanks. Went for a ride today and it's a slightly different feeling. Weird, I know but having a presentable bike makes a difference to me...even if no one else cares. Plus I really like rescuing things. Only a few small things to do now such as clean the calipers and that pesky steering stem upper bracket has evidence of it's oceanic past but they're not as "urgent" as these items were. Side covers, forks and engine were really unsightly. Now not.
God I love the sound of that Scorpion exhaust though. I could listen to that growl all day.
The way you're going with the detailing of this bike you'll end up in a situation similar to mine. I love riding in all conditions but because detailing my bike is a two day job I refuse to take it out if there's the slightest chance of rain. ATM it's covered in dust and that's the way I like it.
BTW, that two days to detail & polish is done on a bike lift. If I had to work on the ground like you it would take a week. :laugh:
Quote from: Snapey on Friday, 23 October 2020, 12:35 AM
The way you're going with the detailing of this bike you'll end up in a situation similar to mine. I love riding in all conditions but because detailing my bike is a two day job I refuse to take it out if there's the slightest chance of rain. ATM it's covered in dust and that's the way I like it.
BTW, that two days to detail & polish is done on a bike lift. If I had to work on the ground like you it would take a week. :laugh:
Yeah, that can be a problem with raw polished aluminium for sure which is why I've applied a triple ceramic coating to all the freshly polished metal and all my paint work One quick wipe with a moist microfibre cloth and I'm done in 5 minutes.
If for some reason I've been caught (say) on a dirt road or unsealed section of roadworks a quick squirt with the hose to move all the dirt and a quick wipe and I'm done. I won't have to re-polish this metal or paint for many years. It really is the ultimate solution to the headache of having to constantly polish raw aluminium over and over and over again.
Plus this isn't a commuter or show bike for me but if I was to ever get caught in the rain it's not a worry at all because the ceramic's super-hydrophobic, anti-acid anti-chemical qualities means for at least the next 7-10 years the water beads and dirt repelling features will mean it'll actually be easier to maintain its finish than a normal factory bike.
The metal and paint will retain this incredible shine plus will be much easier to maintain. It's a win win. No more 2-7 day details for me :laugh: it really is amazing stuff. You should look into it. It'll totally change your whole cleaning routine and give you your life back. I even coated my chrome headlight and gauge backs too so keeping it looking like this won't ever be a problem again.
I've never heard of anyone else ever using it on polished raw aluminium before. It's a major (perhaps even revolutionary) step forward in detailing.
By the way, I sit on a milk crate. No floor sitting for me.
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 23 October 2020, 05:31 AM
By the way, I sit on a milk crate. No floor sitting for me.
Your knees must be better than mine. :laugh:
Quote from: Snapey on Friday, 23 October 2020, 05:51 AM
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 23 October 2020, 05:31 AM
By the way, I sit on a milk crate. No floor sitting for me.
Your knees must be better than mine. :laugh:
Well, that's why I sit on a comfy milk crate, to save my sore old knees back and feet. It's super comfortable and puts me at the perfect comfortable level for working down low on the bike.
Just going through my post-fork-polish photos and liked this one a lot. Just want to put it here.
It looks superb Baz. :clapping: :onya:
Quote from: Snapey on Friday, 23 October 2020, 12:35 AM
The way you're going with the detailing of this bike you'll end up in a situation similar to mine. I love riding in all conditions but because detailing my bike is a two day job I refuse to take it out if there's the slightest chance of rain. ATM it's covered in dust and that's the way I like it.
BTW, that two days to detail & polish is done on a bike lift. If I had to work on the ground like you it would take a week. :laugh:
Yep that's where I got to Pete, and it got the stage with the UK weather that I hardly rode it at all. Since swapping to the Triumph - and now BMW - just piling on the miles, bling is good on a show bike but has no place on a road bike (ye gods did I just say that :rolleyes:)
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 25 October 2020, 03:50 AM
Quote from: Snapey on Friday, 23 October 2020, 12:35 AM
The way you're going with the detailing of this bike you'll end up in a situation similar to mine. I love riding in all conditions but because detailing my bike is a two day job I refuse to take it out if there's the slightest chance of rain. ATM it's covered in dust and that's the way I like it.
BTW, that two days to detail & polish is done on a bike lift. If I had to work on the ground like you it would take a week. :laugh:
Yep that's where I got to Pete, and it got the stage with the UK weather that I hardly rode it at all. Since swapping to the Triumph - and now BMW - just piling on the miles, bling is good on a show bike but has no place on a road bike (ye gods did I just say that :rolleyes:)
Hopefully my ceramic experiment will change all that for all of us.
Went for a fantastic ride today while the sun was out and a glorious warm mid 20s day. Covered 300kms on an aimless ride down the south coast of the Fleurieu Peninsular south of Adelaide. Fantastic roads, perfect for riding. Tight and twistie openeing up to magnificent high speed sweepers. My skills doubled I reckon (from a pretty low base admitedly) but never once went too hot into a corner and I was riding the best I ever have.
These are just fantastic machines!! I feel like king of the road. I even pushed past the seat pain and managed a whole hour of riding without pulling over. That's a first. It hurt like hell for a while but then I kind of got used to it. I had to pull over about 20 minutes from home but once I was fine to continue I was filled with even more confidence. Not one turn, bend or u-turn startled or worried me. I'm loving this growth in riding skills.
And now, some pics and a video! Sadly I don't have a GoPro so couldn't capture any riding footage but I did snatch this walk around at Cape Jervois lookout.
Great pictures - but you really do need to get that collector box on the buffing machine :whistling:
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 01 November 2020, 08:39 PM
Great pictures - but you really do need to get that collector box on the buffing machine :whistling:
Yes Sir. Might have to put my new yoga mat to good use. I saw a video once of some sort of pickling spray then autosol. I gave it a bit of a touch once just to see how baked on it is and it should come up pretty easy. Collected some bugs on this ride so I'll be in a Mr clean mood today.
Above (https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=5678.msg76190#msg76190) I detailed how much trouble I had bolting on the front wheel and lining it all up and then not spinning far after watching a few movies from Dave Moss and Delboy I've bolted it all up wrong and will be loosening everything, cleaning my calipers properly and fully and bolting it all up in the correct sequence including "the bounce". Hopefully that'll solve my rattle which
@steve porter suggests might be a stuck piston again.
I'll pay myself for the effort by cleaning and lightly polishing (just with my $5 tube of Autosol) the collector box. I'm also getting what I think I can hear is a slight "puff puff" from there so I might need some muffler gasket goop there as it's running metal to metal since I removed the bazooka for the rego inspection when I bought it.
Here are the videos which told me I had bolted the front end up totally in the wrong order...
SA, good videos. Pretty much my way of doing. Tighten top clamp bolts, fit everything loose, put on ground, lift up, tighten from top down.My rear adjust marks are spot on, checked with vernier long time back. Pretty much old skool rule with car suspension, fit up, drop onto ground then tighten. Puts all bushes etc in middle range of their movement. I know bike is about aligning but same sort of thing.
I found Dave moss contradicting himself in his vids, vid 1 says tighten brake calliper first then fork bottom (wrong), second vid tighten fork bottom first then brake calliper (correct).
Just watched them again and I'm a bit confused so I'm going to revert to common sense. I'm going to fit the calipers on and do them up finger tight. I've loosened the axle and all pinch bolts are now loosened as well. I don't have paddock stands so I have to use a tie down and suspend the front end from the ceiling which will make this a bit of a hassle.
00) Suspend bike from ceiling hanging from handlebars
0) Remove and clean calipers using a bucket of warm water and dish washing soap. Dunk calipers into warm soapy water and brush with nylon brush (and maybe some light brushing with a small brass or stainless brush for stubborn spots). Rinse with hot water in spray bottle and blow dry.
1) Tighten axle nut side pinch bolts
2) Tighten and torque axle - spin wheel to ensure free wheeling.
3) Loosen axle nut side pinch bolts
4) Release bike from the ceiling
5) Return bike to ground off centre stand
6) Bounce the front end 6 times and return bike onto centre stand
7) Torque axle nut side pinch bolts
8) Torque Axle spin side pinch bolts and spin wheel to test for free spin
9) Suspend bike from ceiling
10) Install calipers and pads finger tight only
11) Tighten pad slider pin and torque
12) Spin front wheel and pump brakes until it stops the front wheel and hold lever.
13) Torque caliper bolts
14) Spin wheel to ensure free spin
15) Tighten mudguard bolts last
16) Release bike from ceiling and push bike to test brakes and listen for clacking or ticking
Side note: I pushed the pistons in with my fingers to see if any were stuck. Although it did take some pushing I believe they all moved a smidge so I'm happy that none are actually stuck. Still, it was good to give everything a good clean. Looks much better although some paint is missing - a job for another day.
I'll go and do all that and come back to report. If I've got anything wrong please post a reply and I'll come back and check for replies before going for a ride.
Please forgive the editing tom foolery. But it's all back together but noisy against the pads and does it free spin enough?
Took it for a quick spin around the back yard, seems to brake well and the lever has a great feel to it and I don;t have to pull it much before the brakes are there. Going to go for a quick spin around the block and will return to report.
much cleaner, but looks like something is dragging, I'd of thought it would spin better than that meselph, wheel sea wot others sei.
Yep happy with the clean but just went around the block and around a few local streets doing 1st gear runs and hard braking and...I don't know I can hear pad noise at low coasting speed and when trying really really hard braking I'm getting a low growl loud noise right at the end like a shuddering grabbing...not sure how to describe it and don;t have a gopro to film it. Kind of like a low frequency "squeal" if that makes sense. Definitely wasn't there before.
The klacking (https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=5708.0) is gone though. I tried to reproduce it by lightly tapping the brake a few times with the clutch in and it seems to be gone so that's good. The lever feels firm and the brakes come on very early, I barely have to touch it and I'm on the brakes. I tried a few emergency grabs (not squeeze like I would in a real emergency stop) and it grabs really hard.
But that emergency squeal and pads scraping as I roll along - not happy. Not sure what it could be but it doesn't feel perfect. Good enough to ride around and take to a proper mechanic (if I could find one I trust). The main thing is I tried and they sort of work well so...this is a new experience for me.
A few pics from the process. Yeah, scratched my mudguard with the hose holding mount - spewin'
Not spinning freely, not near good enough for me. My opinion is pistons need to come out, overhaul calipers. Lets see what others say, i might be totally wrong.
Yeah I agree, They're coming off and going in for an overhaul by Suzuki. They said I can take them in and they'll charge 1 hour per caliper plus parts. Don't trust any other mechanics with my life at the moment. It's back in the shed and will come out again only with brand new brakes. Got no confidence in my work this time. Happy I gave it a go though. Quite an enjoyable afternoon.
You can do it yourself Baz, there's nowt much to a caliper, but if you're really not confident, best to get someone else to do it or maybe another member down that way could give you a hand?
Mate, pull them apart, check pistons. Order what needed, not as difficult as some stuff youve done. Jaw up Buddy, youre an Aussie, not a Queenslander but still Aussie. :laugh:
Haha, thanks. Pure Aussie here. I don't mind pulling stuff apart and bolting it back up and having a good old go but in cases like this I was looking at the pistons and I had no clue if they were supposed to be sticking out more or if there was some way to see if they were in good condition or if they were stuck. It seemed odd that they were all the way in. I had to push really hard to get them to go on a bit more and I wasn't sure if that was normal or not. This is where experience in something like this is essential. You have to know what you're looking for - especially with brakes. The shuddering on heavy braking was a bit disappointing and I flicked a switch that said "nope - time for a pro. Put it away." I just hope Suzuki doesn't disappoint me as well. I don't fancy throwing away $600 and still not having perfect brakes. If that happens you may see me on the news.
Mate,PM Del. $600 a lot, he might have something. His product looks flaweless.
Also check Masterbates. He had monoblocks, adapter plates and master cylinder for $450.
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=2445.0
I had same problem, dragging brakes after cleaning.
Thanks, I read your thread a few days ago and yours cleared up after a 100km ride. My brakes do seem to work fine and have a much improved feel and I'd love to just go out and ride but the shuddering on very hard braking is a new phenomenon which concerns me.
Might try removing one caliper then the other to see if there's a clue there too.
go for a decent ride and re bed the pads in by gradually increasing braking pressure, try some hard braking in a place that you can let the brakes cool down without having to come to a stop, do that a few time and reassess
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 06 November 2020, 05:53 AM
Thanks, I read your thread a few days ago and yours cleared up after a 100km ride. My brakes do seem to work fine and have a much improved feel and I'd love to just go out and ride but the shuddering on very hard braking is a new phenomenon which concerns me.
Might try removing one caliper then the other to see if there's a clue there too.
Give them some time and let the pads to wear little more to adapt to brake discs again
I put the pads in back in the same calipers and side so they'll still need bedding again? If a bike shop had been asked to clean the calipers woukd they let it out the door like this?
Forgot to mention that the wheel spins fine without the calioers fitted.
Does the shudder/growning at the end of a heavy emergency brake concern anyone? It's new. Never heard it before and I test heavy breaking before I go very far on every ride. I only took it for a blip in first gear. Probably 30km/h max and it groans only at the very end right before total stop. And I can hear the brakes dragging when coasting with the clutch in. It's not horrifically loud or anything but it's there and new.
bed them in again, as one pad wasn`t fitted properly it can`t possibly be perfectly matching the disc yet
I really think it needs a good ride with at least 10 harder stops. Burn a full tank of gas riding it :cool: and brakes will be fine :cheers:
also, after bedding in ride along for a bit and stop with the rear brake only and feel the front callipers, if cold , nothing is dragging
Time is of the essence. However if you wish to hasten that. Get it up to 200kmh and just hold the brakes steady as you slow down slowly. The discs will slowly face the pads for you. :boogie: ending with a much smoother stop afterwards. :onya:
I was contacted by an Adelaide member of this forum who assures me it's no big deal and if I screw up or get stuck he's got my back (thanks Josh!) so today this happened...(see pic). Plus all of you saying "pffft, you can do this Baz!" I'll give it a red hot Aussie go.
Next steps...
1) Pull it all apart and have a look inside.
2) If it looks like the pistons will come up ok and the o-rings and seals look re-useable try to put it all back together
3) If not, buy the Suzuki kit and try to put it all back together
4) If I screw that up take it into Suzuki in a Woolies bag and say "here - call me when they're ready to pick up"
He also mentioned that our type of brakes and discs aren't supposed to be bolted up using the "hold the brakes on and torque the mounting bolts" method. That may be causing the bind. In any case, the shudder on hard braking isn't confidence inspiring so apart they will come.
Tip for you before you take them apart.
Take the pads out & pump the lever till all the pistons are nearly touching the discs. It makes the pistons so much easier to remove, even if you've got the fancy 'internal grip' piston pilers.
Thanks! I was JUST wondering about that! Manual says to use compressed air which I don't have. That's a great tip. I was hoping to not have to use too much force to remove the pistons. I was going to wrap my pliers with masking tape or cloth or both.
The manual is also heavy on warning to not reuse any O-rings or seals. I wonder if the O-ring is a standard size I might find at Repco. But given it's not leaking I'm really hoping it won't be cracked.
It also says to rebuild while soaking the pistons in brake fluid. So at what point does the grease come into play? Do the grease and brake fluid "play nice" together? Or should the rubberware be dry before being smeared (lightly I presume?) with the rubber grease?
Presume I know nothing and have little common sense about this because I've never rebuilt brake parts in my life. Going to start right after breakfast. Can't wait now. You've all got me all pumped up! <— see what I did there?
Just thought of a few other things. Cleaning and paint.
Manual the Mexican says to not use petrol or harsh solvents to clean the calipers. I have brake cleaner in spray cans. I'm assuming there are some channels that should be cleaned or blown out. Is it ok to use brake cleaner to shoot through any passages and generally clean then soak it all in brake fluid for assembly? Do I need to go out and buy a little cheap compressor?
Also, when it comes to polishing the cylinders; is it ok to use a fine abrasive like wet 2,000 or 3,000 grit? I have both.
Paint. Sure would be nice to make them all purdy. Don't want to use the wrong colour gold or will general gold caliper paint be close enough? I could always go and get a colour matched gold later but it seems obvious that now is the time for paint. Can't yavr you all pointing and laughing at the noob with fluro green calipers!
This is going to be a great Saturday! I hope for success. Wish I had a tripod for my phone and enough memory to film the whole thing. I'm sure it'd help others but I have neither of those things. I know "it's only brake calipers dude" but I have a mild form of straight faced excitement brewing!
The idea of smearing them with brake fluid is they don't stick to the pistons & get twisted or pulled out of their seats.
I smear them with red rubber grease & put the pistons in dry. I prefer that way as if water gets in behind the seals & heats up with the brakefluid you get a white crustyness that pushes the seals out & makes the pistons stick. Probably less of an issue down there in convictshire. The reason for red grease is it doesn't make the rubbers (which aren't rubber but neoprene) swell unlike normal grease. It mixes fine with brakefluid if a bit gets behind the pistons.
I've reused all the seals & O-rings etc many times, just check they aren't damaged before putting them back. The O-ring is an off square one, but I found a standard one the right size works when I managed to lose an original one.
There aren't any particularly small passages, they are all obvious too. The only one between the sides has that square section O-ring on, then one between each piston pot.
Oh & get a big syringe. The brakes are an utter sod to bleed the normal way from dry, but crack the bleed nipple right open & squeeze brake fluid in from there & they fill up no problem. Put a load in each side (closing the nipple on the other side each time) and eventually you'll see it appear in the master cylinder, at that point bleed them as normal to ensure all air is out.
Have fun.
For what they achieve, you'll be surprised how simple they are inside
Use a scotchbrite pad with WD 40 on the pistons rather than wet and dry if necessary and then clean them with brake cleaner
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:11 AM
The idea of smearing them with brake fluid is they don't stick to the pistons & get twisted or pulled out of their seats. I smear them with red rubber grease & put the pistons in dry.
So with the o-rings and seals I'll use both brake fluid AND the rubber brake grease or one or the other? Slightly confused about this. The way I read it the manual's telling me everything should be dripping with brake fluid during re-assembly.
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:11 AM
I've reused all the seals & O-rings etc many times, just check they aren't damaged before putting them back.
Good to know!
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:11 AM
Oh & get a big syringe. The brakes are an utter sod to bleed the normal way from dry, but crack the bleed nipple right open & squeeze brake fluid in from there & they fill up no problem.
Just as well I bought 100 gallons last time! I don't have a large syringe but I do have a small one from when I had to squirt my dogs ears. I can persist with that but the "other bleed nipple" comment lowered then raised my eyebrows a bit. When I remove the banjo bolt I'm presuming all the brake fluid in the system will run out so I'll be starting with an entirely dead dry system - correct?
I was going to try and plug it somehow so as not to lose the fluid entirely. I was thinking to wrap some cloth the electrical tape it tight but from what you're saying it'll all run out and will need refilling in it's entirety and that I should squirt so much in through the bleed nipple that it'll actually pressure it so much it'll come back up through the master cylinder or even go over to the other side and squirt out the other side even? Better get a big syringe then. Pharmacy?
assemble with rubber grease, much less messy, brake fluid if you don`t have any
Quote from: steve porter on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:28 AM
Use a scotchbrite pad rather than wet and dry if necessary
A used 2,000 paper will produce very shiny metal. I used it to polish the pad locating pins. I'm guessing it provide a more polish surface than scotch brite but is the idea to make them highly polished or matt finish?
I also presume that any pitting at all on any pistons means I need a new piston? I really hope I find something to suggest the pistons were actually sticking otherwise all this probably wasn't necessary.
I have soft jaws in my vice but I'm guessing it's best to crack the caliper body bolts while it's still mounted on the bike? Also, after I remove the pads and pull the lever to force the pistons out (a bit) am I expecting them to all push out evenly? Or will that be an opportunity to see if any come out slowly to show me that they were the stuck pistons?
Quote from: steve porter on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:47 AM
assemble with rubber grease, much less messy, brake fluid if you don`t have any
Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I bought that brake rubber assembly grease in the picture I posted a few posts back. I'll use that. They were just kind of washed on the outside anyway so there's no junk and grime present anyway that could get in the way. I'm guessing that a pristine re-assembly is important. I have my stainless roasting dish ready for assembly.
Quote from: SA14 on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:48 AM
Quote from: steve porter on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:28 AM
Use a scotchbrite pad rather than wet and dry if necessary
A used 2,000 paper will produce very shiny metal. I used it to polish the pad locating pins. I'm guessing it provide a more polish surface than scotch brite but is the idea to make them highly polished or matt finish?
I also presume that any pitting at all on any pistons means I need a new piston? I really hope I find something to suggest the pistons were actually sticking otherwise all this probably wasn't necessary.
I have soft jaws in my vice but I'm guessing it's best to crack the caliper body bolts while it's still mounted on the bike? Also, after I remove the pads and pull the lever to force the pistons out (a bit) am I expecting them to all push out evenly? Or will that be an opportunity to see if any come out slowly to show me that they were the stuck pistons?
you will still need to bed the pads in, so don`t be disappointed if it seems the same at first, personally I would have done that before rebuilding the callipers, but it`s your call, do it in the vice as you will end up with brake fluid on everything if done on the bike, pistons never seem to come out evenly, even after rebuilding.
Quote from: steve porter on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 08:04 AM
you will still need to bed the pads in, so don`t be disappointed if it seems the same at first, personally I would have done that before rebuilding the callipers, but it`s your call, do it in the vice as you will end up with brake fluid on everything if done on the bike, pistons never seem to come out evenly, even after rebuilding.
I was tempted Steve but that shuddering on a hard stop (which was a new phenomenon) plus the grabbing on wheel spin raised my concerns enough to give this deeper clean a go and really have a good look at what's going on with those pistons. It's not really a full proper rebuild as I don't have the seal kit or new pistons. It could be that I was giving the "big hard brake test" a little early without letting that loose pad (which still really baffles me) bed in properly. But a large part of my riding confidence came from having awesome and massive brakes that behaved well on low speed (60 km/h) hard braking tests. I think I'm playing my "best be sure" card today.
All this help from you guys is invaluable. No way I'd touch them with you having my back. Oh and the only thing I'm going to do on the bike is crack the body bolts and push the pistons out ever so slightly and carefully. I'm curious to see if any one of them stays put but from what you're saying I should expect all 6 of them to push out evenly - right? As long as they come out enough for me to grab them on the bench I'll be happy.
Just found these videos which really helped a lot. What surprised me was how easy the front wheel spun in this first video! Very very different to how my wheel doesn't spin at the moment.
Fast forward to 7:05 to see how easily the wheel spins.
How to Rebuild 6 pot Tokico CalipersIncludes a really cool neat trick for how to remove a stuck piston at 3:35 that I would have never thought of.
How to Prime an Empty Hydraulic System using Gravity
Can't get any pistons out. I can get them to turn using the offset socket method above but one small piston won't budge or turn. I've now damaged that small piston trying to get it out.
Oh well, at least I tried.
Also, all pistons were almost impossible to pull out and really hard to rotate. I was swearing quite a lot. Obviously going to need a full set of new pistons so throwing care to the wind and not concerned about damaging pistons anymore I've managed to get all three pistons out of one half just grabbing them with vice grips and they were REALLY hard to get out. I'm guessing they're all almost seized and one definitely is. Might explain a few things.
Next step a full rebuild kit plus pistons and hopefully I can put them all back together without further incidents. I'll have to order them in from interstate so the bike sits idle for a while. Spewin' because Sunday was a perfect riding day.
Good call then if they were that stuck
I agree.
Plus it didn't help that I forgot to move the pistons while still on the bike as
@Hooli suggested. That was the biggest fuck up so far. All the fluid is out of the system now so it'd be a big job to bolt everything back up and bleed the system in order to use hydraulic pressure to push them out but it's not impossible.
First thing I did was release the fluid and remove the lines then cracked the body bolts and before I knew it I had the calipers apart on the bench. That was when I swore about forgetting to push the pistons out using hydraulic pressure. Josh (from here) is going to pop around in a few minutes in case that piston can be salvaged. The good new news is that piston is stuck pretty fast into the bore so it was only bent a bit on the top. If the bore is salvageable I might be able to hammer that small piston straight enough to be used.
While I'm waiting I'm watching those videos again plus a few more I found and the way their pistons come out is a breeze compared to how hard mine are at the moment.
@Throttle came over and took charge. We inspected, ummed, aahed, grunted and swore while pulling pistons (they were in there hard!) but in the end they all came out and inspected ok. Then we bolted it all back up up to perform an
@Hooli dance and forced that stuck bastard out. As for the damage, he came up the idea to use a perfectly matched socket as an internal dolly to round up the piston as best I can. I'm a (bit of a) metal worker (in a previous life) so I'll tap it gently and evenly until she's round again then sand (or even file) her smooth and polished and put it all back together.
I'll planish and metal work it so it's as round as possible on the inside but she will probably still have an internal dent which if the outside is round enough should do the trick and no matter as much. Not ideal but it'll be a pushing piston were as before it was definitely a stuck piston. The damage is above the seals (luckily) Seals look ok though a bit stiff but the pistons we cleaned and polish and greased up and re-inserted in order to rebuild the system back up again to push the recalcitrant piston out seemed to come back out again reasonably easy so I have hope again. I'll post a photo or video when I'm happy with the roundness.
Wish me luck, the pistons are hard so if I'm persistent I reckon I'll be able to move the metal back into position.
Mate, what a day youve had. 🤞🏻For a good result.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 03:43 PM
Mate, what a day youve had. 🤞🏻For a good result.
A good day indeed but it's not over yet. I've just finished repairing the dented piston. So now the job starts...lol I have to clean my bench, pull everything apart again, clean everything down then re-assemble. Here's a photo and video of the repaired piston. Even yesterday if you'd be telling me I'd be repairing a dented piston I'd have said you're Biden level crazy. But with encouragement and a visit from the actual forum to my house (!!!) I'm confident to proceed.
I was explaining to
@Throttle that this was my first ever brake job and he laughed and said "mate, you picked the most intense brake system of them all to start! Two brains are far better than one and as usual, doggo was of no help what so ever.
and now...some a pic and video!
Mate, dont even reckon Barmy had his pistons that shiny. I might be wrong, he prob pulled them out just to polish. 😂
I reckon you're right Grog.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 04:46 PM
Mate, dont even reckon Barmy had his pistons that shiny. I might be wrong, he prob pulled them out just to polish. 😂
Haha, I had to get them shiny so I could see the defect but must admit, strangely satisfying.
Ready or not, here I go. I'll install the main seals with the fat edge down into the bore. I'll be smearing everything as I go. Can't believe I'm in this deep. You guys better know what I'm doing because I'm flying by wire.
I'll push the pistons into the vote all the way in as suggested. Bolt the calipers up tight and torque them up once bolted up to the forks. I'll make sure my banjo bolt washers are either side of the banjo. My pad pins are polished and lightly greased. I don't have any antiseize for the caliper body bolts though so I'll just use a smear of regular heavy duty grease. Better than nothing.
Bleeding will be an ordeal but at least I've done that before and have the video above to guide me. I'm a bit worried about all the air behind the pistons though. I'll cross that bride if I come to it.
All this without beer 🍺 too! Probably wise.
Will never work without beer😂
When I said the other bleed nipple I meant the one on the other caliper. A small syringe will do, it'll just take longer.
It doesn't need any pressure to fill it to the master cylinder pot as when the lever isn't pulled the pipe work is open all the way through. The hoses etc are only a sealed system when you pull the lever to pressurise the brake fluid.
The other way is leave both nipples wide open and pour fluid into the master cylinder pot. Once you see it dribble out the nipples it's full enough to bleed as normal.
Looks like you've done well so far.
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:15 PM
When I said the other bleed nipple I meant the one on the other caliper. A small syringe will do, it'll just take longer.
It doesn't need any pressure to fill it to the master cylinder pot as when the lever isn't pulled the pipe work is open all the way through. The hoses etc are only a sealed system when you pull the lever to pressurise the brake fluid.
The other way is leave both nipples wide open and pour fluid into the master cylinder pot. Once you see it dribble out the nipples it's full enough to bleed as normal.
Looks like you've done well so far.
Thanks again. I was just reading your syringe post above again and also watched that video again. I'll push the pistons all the way back into their bores so there's no air gap back there. Gravity prime the hoses as well as squirt some in with my syringe through the bleeder holes on both calipers. That ought to get enough fluid in and air out to get me started on the bleed. I also have that Vacuum pump from when I flushed the brakes when I first got it in case I get stuck.
@Throttle and I used it to get enough fluid into the system to go back in and push that little piston out. Heading out to re-assemble and bleed. I may even be riding by tonight which I consider totally unbelievable but let's not speak too early.
Mate, out of every thread ive ever read here, you win for persistence, having a go and solving. My hats off. Brilliant work. 👏
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 04:46 PM
Mate, dont even reckon Barmy had his pistons that shiny. I might be wrong, he prob pulled them out just to polish. 😂
you betcha - I even mirror polished the sump
@grog - mind you only the once :lol:
I dont envy you the job of bleeding the 6 potters off....had them on my GSXR 11....tried everything, syringe, vacuum pump,even had them hung upside down from the garage roof....cut a long story...swapped them for a pair of 4 pots.. 2 seconds to bleed off....
Also noticed on my 14 when I was looking to buy it & you can see from the posted photos....the six pots have been changed to 4s .....guessing he had the same problems
Quote from: SA14 on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:23 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:15 PM
When I said the other bleed nipple I meant the one on the other caliper. A small syringe will do, it'll just take longer.
It doesn't need any pressure to fill it to the master cylinder pot as when the lever isn't pulled the pipe work is open all the way through. The hoses etc are only a sealed system when you pull the lever to pressurise the brake fluid.
The other way is leave both nipples wide open and pour fluid into the master cylinder pot. Once you see it dribble out the nipples it's full enough to bleed as normal.
Looks like you've done well so far.
Thanks again. I was just reading your syringe post above again and also watched that video again. I'll push the pistons all the way back into their bores so there's no air gap back there. Gravity prime the hoses as well as squirt some in with my syringe through the bleeder holes on both calipers. That ought to get enough fluid in and air out to get me started on the bleed. I also have that Vacuum pump from when I flushed the brakes when I first got it in case I get stuck. @Throttle and I used it to get enough fluid into the system to go back in and push that little piston out. Heading out to re-assemble and bleed. I may even be riding by tonight which I consider totally unbelievable but let's not speak too early.
If your vacuum bleeder works then use that, I've never tried that method as I don't have one.
I think it's just down to the length of hose & the Y-piece meaning there is too much air in there for pumping master cylinder to get things flowing. Once there is some fluid in the system they bleed fine.
Better than 6-pots are tokico 4-pots on my tl1000s usd front end, but even better are nissin 4-pots from oil cooled gsxr, easy to bleed, braking power is superb :cheers:
@SA14 don't be put off by the bleeding. Done right it's easy. Theses six pots well maintained are a great brake!! Sure there is better out there but not worth the change in my opinion. Keep up your persistence and it's great to see the GSX getting well deserved attention.
If you have issues let me know and I'll post on here how to get it right from dry system to no air. Cheers
Nothing wrong with the six pots, I can chirp the front tyre at over legal speeds with organic pads. Those claiming they don't have enough power must have the fingers of a 90 year old with arthritis.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 07 November 2020, 07:29 PM
Mate, out of every thread ive ever read here, you win for persistence, having a go and solving. My hats off. Brilliant work. 👏
Thanks man! It was a fascinating experience and one which I never thought I had the skill or experience to pull off. I stumbled a few times but the org came to the rescue and in the end? I'll just let these videos speak for me then I'll add some notes afterwards.
Apologies for the horrible quality of this video. It's content is more important than the quality.
Ok, so how do they feel?
I first took it for a few short laps around the back yard and to be honest they felt a bit soft. Then I remembered I've never felt proper brakes on this bike before so maybe this is how they're supposed to feel? Previously they felt quite hard and sudden. These feel more like normal brakes. It's a bit unnerving at first. I did a few short hard brakes and it seemed to pull the bike up pretty quickly up and down the driveway so off I took down the road with the iPhone blue tacked to the dash. I just wanted to record something, anything to show you guys that they actually worked. I'll get a go pro one day.
So during the test ride I did get one short grown on the heaviest stop so not sure what that's about but all the other stops were fine. Again it feels a bit soft at first but maybe this is what good brakes feel like. Soft and manageable without grabbing or doing anything drastic but pull you up quick smart when needed. I'm going to have to let
@Throttle decide when he takes it for a spin. But for all intent's and purposes they work fine.
YOU GUYS ROCK! :onya: :clapping: :worshippy: :hat: :salute: :grin: Look what you made me do?! You pushed me to become better. I think if you're not smiling right now you should be because you all deserve it. I'm in shock. Literally didn't know I had it in me. You didn't let me give up, you even came over to help! What can I say? --> Thank you.
Good on ya Baz for getting into it! Now surely it must be time to put some generous miles on it?
You'll have the motor out on the bench for a top end rebuild next weekend at this rate
Quote from: 😎KiwiCol on Sunday, 08 November 2020, 05:00 AM
Good on ya Baz for getting into it! Now surely it must be time to put some generous miles on it?
Absolutely! Today is a beautiful mild sunny day made for a reward ride. It is going to take me a few stops to get used to these softer (at the start) normal brakes
Quote from: steve porter on Sunday, 08 November 2020, 06:00 AM
You'll have the motor out on the bench for a top end rebuild next weekend at this rate
Haha, there is a ticking that makes me tilt my head on occasion.
0.0018% of the population have tested positive to the china virus in South Australia (showing no symptoms or illness :confused1: ) so they've locked the entire state down for at least 6 days killing many small businesses (including mine) dead in their tracks (all my forward bookings have cancelled) and causing all sorts of real harm. So I have no option other than to bunker down and think about the bike. I've been browsing all the mechanical forums for suggestions but I fancy polishing my rim dish. I did see this video (below) and I'm leaning towards doing it this way. I have all that's needed, tape, stripper, polishing stuff tools and torque wrenches but
@Throttle gave me a stern look and suggested that perhaps I might want to consider doing it properly which means wheels off, discs off, cog off.
Thoughts? Any gotchas to look out for?
I've removed the front wheel a few times recently so that's not an issue but not ventured into removing the rear wheel, it's cog or disc. I believe chain adjustment remains unaffected. I only have the centre stand, tie down straps, a strong garage truss and an old car scissor jack which I've just oiled and works perfectly. Can I lift and strap the rear by the pillion grab rail or is that pushing it? I know proper paddock stands are the right way but I'm not allowed to leave the house and no shops are open plus I like doing things on the super cheap where possible.
Biggest mistake I made on my 14 was stripping the paint and polishing the rims. The alloy that Suzuki have used for the rims is not exactly top quality, takes ages to get a shine and even then it's a dull shine - plus I found the paint ion the rear rim thicker than the front and stripper didn't really touch it, do I had to finish off sanding by hand.
Slightest bit if damp and it was back polishing the rims again, no matter what I put on to protect the shine.
If I had the choice again, I most certainly would not polish the rims - high maintenance and a disappointing finish.
I know a lot of you disagree but i like black rims. I also like the white on earlier 14.Have had rim tape, blue, looked good. Now just a couple of gsx1400 stickers. Each to your own. I love polished bits, Snapey wheels look superb. Id rather re paint than polish, just me.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 05:53 PM
Biggest mistake I made on my 14 was stripping the paint and polishing the rims. The alloy that Suzuki have used for the rims is not exactly top quality, takes ages to get a shine and even then it's a dull shine - plus I found the paint ion the rear rim thicker than the front and stripper didn't really touch it, do I had to finish off sanding by hand.
Slightest bit if damp and it was back polishing the rims again, no matter what I put on to protect the shine.
If I had the choice again, I most certainly would not polish the rims - high maintenance and a disappointing finish.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem with polishing aluminium. You have to keep polishing it. Luckily I have a solution with my triple ceramic coating which is holding up well now for just over 3 months and still chrome-like shiny so I reckon I've got that problem licked. Interesting about the quality of aluminium though. If I can't get them to sparkle then I'd settle for satin style but I reckon I'll be able to get them shiny enough to keep me happy. May I ask what method you used to polish? How far did you sand? What grit did you get to before moving to polish? I'll be going to 3,000 via 800, 1,200, 1,500 and 2,000.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:21 PM
I know a lot of you disagree but i like black rims. I also like the white on earlier 14.Have had rim tape, blue, looked good. Now just a couple of gsx1400 stickers. Each to your own. I love polished bits, Snapey wheels look superb. Id rather re paint than polish, just me.
Yes, I'm mindful of too much shiny. I'd never polish the whole wheel spokes and all. Just the dish is fine with me and it's a style that's proven to work well for decades already although I don't hate the black rims I reckon a little ring of silver would be just right for my style.
Any "gotchas" when removing wheels, discs and cogs? Holding the bike up in the front is sorted, not sure about the back. The grab rail seems kind of sturdy but not sure it'd suspend the whole bike with the wobbling in the removal and replacement procedure. There were a lot of gotchas with the front wheel which would've been handy to know before I erroneously assumed would just be a simple remove and replace. Even now after adding the red gum to my pads I'm finding the wheel doesn't spin as freely. These are the types of gotchas I'm concerned about and with the drive and torque generated from this engine I'd hate to screw up the rear wheel, cog and disc r&r.
I'm going to have to remove the balancing weights and was going to use contact cement to reglue them back in place. Any problem with that plan?
Was also thinking of skipping the whole messy paint stripper method and just sand the paint off with 600 or 800 gently. Got nothing else to do while in prison/lock down.
Just make sure you put the wheel back in the swingarm parallel. Perhaps measure or mark accurately the position it's in prior to disassembly.
This link has the info in it. https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=242.0
Quote from: 😎KiwiCol on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:49 PM
Just make sure you put the wheel back in the swingarm parallel. Perhaps measure or mark accurately the position it's in prior to disassembly.
This link has the info in it. https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=242.0
So when I remove the rear wheel it loses it's alignment? That right there is enough to want me to just leave it alone and do it all on the bike in situ. When replacing the rear tyre I can't remember them aligning it back up again. Might have missed that part though.
SA, just pull it out. Refit and align will still be same.Just did mine, not a problem at all. Dont undo or move chain adjust bolts. Very easy.
Quote from: SA14 on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:52 PM
Quote from: 😎KiwiCol on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:49 PM
Just make sure you put the wheel back in the swingarm parallel. Perhaps measure or mark accurately the position it's in prior to disassembly.
This link has the info in it. https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=242.0
So when I remove the rear wheel it loses it's alignment? That right there is enough to want me to just leave it alone and do it all on the bike in situ. When replacing the rear tyre I can't remember them aligning it back up again. Might have missed that part though.
If you don't touch the adjuster bolts & make sure the square bits the axle goes thorough is pressed up against them on refitting the alignment will remain the same.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 07:37 PM
SA, just pull it out. Refit and align will still be same.Just did mine, not a problem at all. Dont undo or move chain adjust bolts. Very easy.
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 08:34 PM
If you don't touch the adjuster bolts & make sure the square bits the axle goes thorough is pressed up against them on refitting the alignment will remain the same.
Thanks and onya
Hi Baz,
Its easier to pull the rear wheel out than rebuilding brake calipers, and you seemed to do that with ease.
I dont see how you cant disturb the chain alignment when removing the wheel, but thats me, anyway, realignment is also really easy.
Whilst youre there, good time to check/ replace wheel bearings and clean sprocket carrier and clean inside of swing arm...
Personally I prefer the original white Suzuki wheels, and some rim stickers over polished.
Eric chain alignment is set by the two bolts in front of the axle that screw into the swingarm. You don't need to move them to take the wheel out, so provided the assembly is correctly pressed up against them again the alignment will be retained.
Bearings is a good point, particularly the sprocket carrier bearing. They never last long on these bikes.
Quote from: SA14 on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 06:42 PM
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 05:53 PM
Biggest mistake I made on my 14 was stripping the paint and polishing the rims. The alloy that Suzuki have used for the rims is not exactly top quality, takes ages to get a shine and even then it's a dull shine - plus I found the paint ion the rear rim thicker than the front and stripper didn't really touch it, do I had to finish off sanding by hand.
Slightest bit if damp and it was back polishing the rims again, no matter what I put on to protect the shine.
If I had the choice again, I most certainly would not polish the rims - high maintenance and a disappointing finish.
Yeah, that's the biggest problem with polishing aluminium. You have to keep polishing it. Luckily I have a solution with my triple ceramic coating which is holding up well now for just over 3 months and still chrome-like shiny so I reckon I've got that problem licked. Interesting about the quality of aluminium though. If I can't get them to sparkle then I'd settle for satin style but I reckon I'll be able to get them shiny enough to keep me happy. May I ask what method you used to polish? How far did you sand? What grit did you get to before moving to polish? I'll be going to 3,000 via 800, 1,200, 1,500 and 2,000.
The problem was not so much with keeping the shine - it was getting it TO a shine - I do like them nice and "chrome" like, but the best I could get no matter what I tried was shiney, but not really shiney. I'd been warned about the quality of the alloy before I started, and sadly the guy who told me was bang on, as under the paint, I found some poor patches of alloy (where it goes that blackish colour). Grit wise, I went through the stages to a 2000 grit before putting them on the buffing machine, taking it down through the stages of Brown, Green, Blue and Yellow cake using (mainly) 3" and 4" buffing wheels (from hard thru cloth) and specialist mops/dremmel for finishing. As you will see in the photo, more of a satin shiney finish, was never happy with it.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 09:09 PM
Hi Baz,
Its easier to pull the rear wheel out than rebuilding brake calipers, and you seemed to do that with ease.
I dont see how you cant disturb the chain alignment when removing the wheel, but thats me, anyway, realignment is also really easy.
Whilst youre there, good time to check/ replace wheel bearings and clean sprocket carrier and clean inside of swing arm...
Personally I prefer the original white Suzuki wheels, and some rim stickers over polished.
Haha, I'm never going to live that down...lol I had a lot of help from you guys and a live physical member. But I get your point and I thought of that myself but still I was nervous about that and will be nervous about anything critical. I spose that's healthy.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 09:15 PM
The problem was not so much with keeping the shine - it was getting it TO a shine - I do like them nice and "chrome" like, but the best I could get no matter what I tried was shiney, but not really shiney. I'd been warned about the quality of the alloy before I started, and sadly the guy who told me was bang on, as under the paint, I found some poor patches of alloy (where it goes that blackish colour). Grit wise, I went through the stages to a 2000 grit before putting them on the buffing machine, taking it down through the stages of Brown, Green, Blue and Yellow cake using (mainly) 3" and 4" buffing wheels (from hard thru cloth) and specialist mops/dremmel for finishing. As you will see in the photo, more of a satin shiney finish, was never happy with it.
Ok, well that's way more than I was going to use so maybe I'll pause and re-think. The idea of going through all that effort and not getting a result is a worry. I still think they need something to accentuate the wheel and I'm not into stickers personally. Might just leave well enough alone.
Appreciate all the input fellas.
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 09:14 PM
Eric chain alignment is set by the two bolts in front of the axle that screw into the swingarm. You don't need to move them to take the wheel out, so provided the assembly is correctly pressed up against them again the alignment will be retained.
Bearings is a good point, particularly the sprocket carrier bearing. They never last long on these bikes.
Thanks Hooli, yeah I get that, but evertime I need to take the wheel out, i have to get enough slack in the chain to get it off the sprocket, so i have to take the adjusters in, push the wheel forward, remove chain and then wheel, so a realignment is needed when putting it all back together. Or am i missing something?
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 19 November 2020, 09:15 PM
The problem was not so much with keeping the shine - it was getting it TO a shine - I do like them nice and "chrome" like, but the best I could get no matter what I tried was shiney, but not really shiney. I'd been warned about the quality of the alloy before I started, and sadly the guy who told me was bang on, as under the paint, I found some poor patches of alloy (where it goes that blackish colour). Grit wise, I went through the stages to a 2000 grit before putting them on the buffing machine, taking it down through the stages of Brown, Green, Blue and Yellow cake using (mainly) 3" and 4" buffing wheels (from hard thru cloth) and specialist mops/dremmel for finishing. As you will see in the photo, more of a satin shiney finish, was never happy with it.
Just on this again...
I believe you had those problems but last night I saw so many that had a chrome-y shine to them and I really would like that look. So I wonder if maybe there was a year or period where the (or some) wheels came through the line with inferior quality castings (or are they forgings)? Have you heard of anyone else who has had this problem apart from your source? You source; was he just another 14 owner with a same year bike or a pro polisher? H does sound credible don't get me wrong but I do have to wonder at all the other 14 wheels I see with shiny dishes (dishi?). I know that once I start there's no going back but I'd like to start with a little bit more confidence that they'll come out pretty good if not perfectly chrome-y. I appreciate your input because I would've been pretty upset if I came across one of those black patches of which you speak.
Let's say I chose to go ahead, may I ask if you stripped the paint using paint stripper or did you go straight to sanding the paint off? Did you strip the whole wheel and repaint the centres and spokes or did you carefully mask them off then strip and sand up to that line? I know you're a polishing expert and I'm just a (metal) polishing enthusiast so any info (and your time) is much appreciated as always.
Lastly, and this makes me cringe just as much as I know you're all about to but what about alternatives to polish? Chrome paint or chrome stickers that look ok-ish? It's just that from a design point of view the wheel needs some definition (think Tron). The black tyre and wheel is just too much black out near the edges. Ever since the "hotwires" and Simmons of old I've loved the black centre and chrome lip/dish look and I think it really works well on these.
Some pics for inspiration once again.
@Snapey has done wheels in the past, he may be able to offer some tips.
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 20 November 2020, 10:20 AM
Just on this again...
I believe you had those problems but last night I saw so many that had a chrome-y shine to them and I really would like that look. So I wonder if maybe there was a year or period where the (or some) wheels came through the line with inferior quality castings (or are they forgings)? Have you heard of anyone else who has had this problem apart from your source? You source; was he just another 14 owner with a same year bike or a pro polisher? H does sound credible don't get me wrong but I do have to wonder at all the other 14 wheels I see with shiny dishes (dishi?). I know that once I start there's no going back but I'd like to start with a little bit more confidence that they'll come out pretty good if not perfectly chrome-y. I appreciate your input because I would've been pretty upset if I came across one of those black patches of which you speak.
Let's say I chose to go ahead, may I ask if you stripped the paint using paint stripper or did you go straight to sanding the paint off? Did you strip the whole wheel and repaint the centres and spokes or did you carefully mask them off then strip and sand up to that line? I know you're a polishing expert and I'm just a (metal) polishing enthusiast so any info (and your time) is much appreciated as always.
Lastly, and this makes me cringe just as much as I know you're all about to but what about alternatives to polish? Chrome paint or chrome stickers that look ok-ish? It's just that from a design point of view the wheel needs some definition (think Tron). The black tyre and wheel is just too much black out near the edges. Ever since the "hotwires" and Simmons of old I've loved the black centre and chrome lip/dish look and I think it really works well on these.
Some pics for inspiration once again.
On the wheels, I believe it can vary, even with wheels off the same year. My wheels were off my K7, they were the second set I did, as originally I bought a set off a K2 and did those. End results were pretty similar. Having said that I have seen some wheels as per your pictures which were more to what I wanted to achieve - the guys who had those had bought them off eBay already polished (went for a small fortune), so I suspect they were done professionally using machines far superior to what I had to hand.
As for stripping them - and I think Snapey found this as well - the black paint on the rear wheel is thicker and harder than the front wheel on black wheels. On mine I masked them up and started with paint stripper, front wheel paint came off pretty well yet it hardly touched the rear wheel, so the rears I masked up and sanded by hand.
Don't get me wrong on the finish - I could always get a shine, but it was never one where you could see the reflection of your face, it was always grainy, actually even on the professional ones I mentioned earlier, it was a better shine but still grainy. I think that Suzuki just generally used a lower grade alloy when they cast these wheels. Some wheels I saw had been fully polished, spokes as well and strangely when I was getting some bits chromed on my bike, I spoke to a polisher at the chroming plant and he said they had varying results doing the whole wheel as the casting finish on the spokes and hubs varied (some being rougher than others, the rougher ones not coming out so well). So it seems that with the wheels it could be pot luck as to how good a finish you can get. Maybe I was just unlucky with 2 sets. The finish on the wheels in your photos suggests that may be the case.
As for a chrome finish through paint or some other solution - I did look into that, and a few guys did have theirs done. Varying results, I've never yet seen a shiney chrome paint finish, and whilst what they had done was pretty good, it was never shiney shiney like you are looking for IMO. Maybe processes and liquids used have changed these days, after all I am talking about what was done 10 years ago. They also found that the product used chipped pretty easily, many got them re-done (actually I think the product used was taken off the market not long after, so have no real idea what is available these days - although I guess there is always the dipping option - that may well give a good chrome finish (I don't know). I've seen a few wheels that have been hydro-dipped and the results visually have been very good.
Finally one has to consider weather - you guys have much more sun and a drier atmosphere than the U.K. - heck my polished alloy used to oxidise just getting the bike out from the garage - and I think that that also could influence the finish.
I did once see a set of rims that had actually been chromed - looked lovely but had cost the owner a small fortune to get done.
Hope that helps - as KiwiCol says, Snapey did his rims on his K5 and got a great finish, don't let me out you off trying, it's a lot of work, but if they come out well, then very satisfying - worst case is if you are not happy with the finish you have to get them re powder coated.
I've attached a couple of pictures of my K7 wheels just after finishing polishing them. This was the best shine I could get which I was pretty happy with, and (IMO) not far off the finish of the wheels in your picture.
SA, not stock wheels on black bike outside Dayboro Pub, look good but. Red n Black in first pic looks good, was that the bike called Sophie? Maybe. Eric, i just drop caliper, knock axle out, spacers fall out, sprocket carrier comes out of cush drive. Wheel comes out, sprocket sits with chain still on.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 20 November 2020, 05:48 PM
SA, not stock wheels on black bike outside Dayboro Pub, look good but. Red n Black in first pic looks good, was that the bike called Sophie? Maybe. Eric, i just drop caliper, knock axle out, spacers fall out, sprocket carrier comes out of cush drive. Wheel comes out, sprocket sits with chain still on.
Yeah that black bike has spectacular aftermarket wheels which I know cost him a lot. I asked about it when I used to hang out in facebook groups (ask
@Hooli how that turned out for me lately...lol) but the design element of a shiny rim was what I wanted to show. I think it looks classic and really do want it but just lifting off the throttle a bit after 'Barmy's "
things you should know" advice.
'Barmy, thanks for all of that and the time you took to write it. Appreciate the effort bloke. I was out staring at the bike and though it's a bit cramped on the bike but I'm not sure I have to remove the sprocket now as there seems to be enough room to work. Thanks for the thickness advice too and you're right; if I farque it up I can always just repaint. Seems stupid but I didn't really think of that.
As for the "ok-ish" shine you were able to achieve I reckon I'd be happy with that. I polished some old drag racing magnesium wheels once a long time ago in my hot rod days and they had that same "ok-ish" appearance but from a short distance they looked great.
"Restoration" is probably a bit too heavy a word for the cosmetic spruce up I've done on this magnificent but neglected bike but I reckon with shiny dish on those magnificent 3 spoke wheels of ours it would be the perfect finishing touch.
Then there's the mirrors, the collector to polish, that weird ticking and high frequency hum I hear coming from the engine at the lights...
[fades off into the distance talking to himself].
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 20 November 2020, 07:19 PM
Quote from: grog on Friday, 20 November 2020, 05:48 PM
SA, not stock wheels on black bike outside Dayboro Pub, look good but. Red n Black in first pic looks good, was that the bike called Sophie? Maybe. Eric, i just drop caliper, knock axle out, spacers fall out, sprocket carrier comes out of cush drive. Wheel comes out, sprocket sits with chain still on.
Yeah that black bike has spectacular aftermarket wheels which I know cost him a lot. I asked about it when I used to hang out in facebook groups (ask @Hooli how that turned out for me lately...lol) but the design element of a shiny rim was what I wanted to show. I think it looks classic and really do want it but just lifting off the throttle a bit after 'Barmy's "things you should know" advice.
'Barmy, thanks for all of that and the time you took to write it. Appreciate the effort bloke. I was out staring at the bike and though it's a bit cramped on the bike but I'm not sure I have to remove the sprocket now as there seems to be enough room to work. Thanks for the thickness advice too and you're right; if I farque it up I can always just repaint. Seems stupid but I didn't really think of that.
As for the "ok-ish" shine you were able to achieve I reckon I'd be happy with that. I polished some old drag racing magnesium wheels once a long time ago in my hot rod days and they had that same "ok-ish" appearance but from a short distance they looked great.
"Restoration" is probably a bit too heavy a word for the cosmetic spruce up I've done on this magnificent but neglected bike but I reckon with shiny dish on those magnificent 3 spoke wheels of ours it would be the perfect finishing touch.
Then there's the mirrors, the collector to polish, that weird ticking and high frequency hum I hear coming from the engine at the lights...
[fades off into the distance talking to himself].
Found some pictures of my polished wheels I've added to my thread above (added after posting, so you may not have seen them) - these were just after finishing the polishing. Actually looking at those, they weren't too bad. Here's some later pictures after I painted them and applied some pinstriping as well.
Thinking on it, maybe I'm being too negative. Go for it, like you I like the look.
I'd be more than happy with that much shine. Thanks for posting them.
Here is another option - I commute (or did) on my bike and being based in Scotland we experience our fair sharer of rain - Ive not got he patience of oor Barmy so I opted for the lazy fookers way to go and had my wheels powder coated in a shadow chrome
not its not as shiney as a proper polished alloy but sooooo much less hassle
That doesn't look half bad! Got any close up views?
Very nice looking 14 Del :onya:
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 20 November 2020, 10:59 PM
That doesn't look half bad! Got any close up views?
Ill get some more tomorrow but this is what I have
Del, stunner bike. Really nice.
Small update: I made some brake mistakes which I'm going to correct today.
1) I used loctite on my caliper mounting bolts, caliper body bolts as well as my brake pad pins [bad - use anti-seize instead]
2) I lightly greased my brake pad retaining pins with normal general purpose grease. [very bad - NEVER GP Grease - use anti-seize instead]
3) I torqued the pad retaining pins to factory specs [bad-ish - hand tighten to "quite tight" is plenty]
I was watching a few of Delboys videos again last night (see videos below) where he pointed out why to
never use any grease anywhere near the brakes. When it melts in high temp as those experienced by the braking system in normal (let alone extreme) brake usage the grease will melt and run. Not good when the grease is literally sitting over the pads and discs. Now, I didn't slather it on or anything like that but I did put a light smear on the pins to help the pads glide easier across them. It seemed like a sensible common sense thing to do. Wrong. I can;t risk even one drop of grease to drop down onto my pads or disc obviously so I'll be wiping them down with brake cleaner and applying a light smear of antisieze instead.
He also mentions to
never use loctite on any brake components as the heat cycle may cause them to seize - especially on the pad pins. I applied loctite 243 blue to all my caliper body and caliper mounting bolts so now I fear them seizing into the aluminium. It might not happen but I don't want it to ever happen. My thinking was it's a safety system so I don't want the bolts to come loose so I loctited them in. Now I feel that was a (possibly big) mistake. I did mention I was going to do that and no one corrected me so I figure this is all on you guys...[lol just kidding relax]. I write way too much stuff (as was recently pointed out to me) so it's no wonder no one picked it up.
In his stuck pad retaining pin video he mentions that sometimes these pins seize because people use loctite (or equivalent) to glue them in place and also to
never tighten pad retaining pins too tight. Now, obviously it's never wise to tighten anything "too much" I figured that factory torque was ok so I might do that again but this time I'm going use anti-seize instead of loctite because he mentions that even factory torque settings might be too much. In the video he says "good luck removing them" after saying some people torque them up. He said with moderate hand tightening they will never come off but I remember reading somewhere here that someone mentioned they always loctite them because some have been known to come loose which startled me into using loctite.
So I'm going to remove every bolt one at a time, wire brush all the white loctite residue off the bolts, chase the threads with a tap, apply anti-seize and re-torque everything back up. I'm pretty sure (though can't specifically remember) loctiting the caliper body bolts too so is it ok to re-work (undo, clean, tap, antiseize, re-install and re-torque) them one at a time on the bike?
Also I'd like to get some copper slip but not sure it's available in Adelaide or Australia (specifically). What are you guys all using for anti-seize? Is the grey (graphite) stuff ok or should I specifically try and source a copper based product like
Molytec Copatec (https://www.molytec.com.au/anti-seize)? My local tool supplier only has the 500g brush on version of this which should last about a billion years. Slight overkill but $40. Repco sell this
Penrite "Copper Eze" (https://www.repco.com.au/en/oils-fluids/greases-lubricants/greases/penrite-copper-eze-anti-seize-grease-100g-ceze0001/p/A9625783) for $14 (on special). Supercheap sell this
Herschell Copper Anti-Seize Grease (https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/herschell-herschell-copper-anti-seize-grease-tube-100g/401923.html) for just $9. I'm guessing any of these will do the trick?
Here are the Delboy videos which opened my eyes to my mistakes.
Fast forward to minute 16:15 where he starts to talk about copperslip and tightening of the pins but I found the whole video excellent.
Fast Forward to minute 15:00 where he talks about not tightening the pad retaining pin too much but I found this brake cleaning video excellent watch all the way through also.
And finally this video where he compares thread lock to antiseize. The flame test really drove this message home to me about copper based anti-seize.
Personally I wouldn`t worry about the 243 as it`s just a thread lock, not super strong, but if you are worried just crack the bolts and redo them up as once dry it won`t re bond anything
Coppercote is a brand name for Copper anti seize and Nickel Anti seize for stainless & hot things. Both come in a tube that's about the size of a toothpaste tube & will last a home handyman for years each. Repco or SCA would sell them, as would any tool shop.
[/quote]
Quote from: Del on Friday, 20 November 2020, 09:32 PM
Here is another option - I commute (or did) on my bike and being based in Scotland we experience our fair sharer of rain - Ive not got he patience of oor Barmy so I opted for the lazy fookers way to go and had my wheels powder coated in a shadow chrome
not its not as shiney as a proper polished alloy but sooooo much less hassle
Hi Del,
They look awesome as does the bike. Can you recall what the approximate cost was to have the wheels powder coated?
Quote from: Big Phil link=topic=5678.msg77836#msg77836 date=1606206241
/quote]Quote from: Del on Friday, 20 November 2020, 09:32 PM
Here is another option - I commute (or did) on my bike and being based in Scotland we experience our fair sharer of rain - Ive not got he patience of oor Barmy so I opted for the lazy fookers way to go and had my wheels powder coated in a shadow chrome
not its not as shiney as a proper polished alloy but sooooo much less hassle
Hi Del,
They look awesome as does the bike. Can you recall what the approximate cost was to have the wheels powder coated?
Hi @Big Phil the powdercoating wasn't that expensive mate think I paid about £50.00
Seriously that very cheap.
Quote from: Big Phil on Wednesday, 25 November 2020, 01:51 AM
Seriously that very cheap.
I was just thinking that. I bet you could easily add a zero to that price in Australia.
Painted the radiator shield engine black. Too much chrome for me and it was removing focus from the engine. I think it looks much better being "in the background" now. Also fitted the LED globe that arrived today. Can't wait to see it at night. Looks very rectangular against my shed door.
SA, quite like cooler guard black, i wont do mine but yeah, looks good. Get some of your ceramic on it, easier to clean bugs off. Will wait for your opinion on globe. My park globe is old skool globe, looks so yellow now. Will search for a led for it. First led i fitted hardly lasted, hence went back to old. Was told today it didnt last as it was JayCar globe, no good. Thinking a nice bright led will fill reflector with nice 6K glow. Yours is as mine was, no park light. I drilled reflector and fitted rubber globe holder, just as backup if H4 blows.
Yeah, I'd like a park globe. The rear has parker (I know because I left them on one night) so why not the front too?
I need to bake this paint on so I'll go out for a ride tonight (nice warm balmy night in Adelaide tonight) to get it nice and hot and will assess the light. Still haven't adjusted it as per manual but I'll pull over and do some side of the road adjustments with my trust leatherman wave. Strangely enough I got a part payment yesterday for a headlight restoration in two LED globes for my commodore so I'm all about LED now. Hope I like it. I kind of like the warm glow of an old school light but gotta see where I'm going. We've been killing a motorcycle ride almost every day for the last few weeks. It's crazyland out there lately but I'm sure a lot of it is rider fault. Smashing into avoidable things, into the back of cars, on the wrong side of the road, straight ahead at T-Junctions...etc. Makes me shake my head.
Ok so I went out for a night ride with my new LED globes and at first I thought "wow! these are really bright" as I was warming it up and it was shining onto my driveway and front lawn. But then when I was out on the suburban roads it kind of disappeared and I couldn't see any discernible light pattern on the road at all. Of course the street lights were doing a good job of illuminating so it was no big deal.
I ducked into some side streets to check it again and sure enough back it came and there was a strong white rectangular pattern clearly visible and fine for normal low speed riding and the street signs were shining back like my lights were on high beam so I though maybe it was aimed too high and the light was disappearing into the distance so I headed up onto the hills to test it out on totally dark roads at speed and to be honest I was a little underwhelmed. The rectangular pattern was clearly visible but soon stopped short of what was comfortable even at 80km/h and the high beam was barely helpful. It added maybe another 10-20% extra distance but that's about it.
Not sure what I was expecting. Certainly not a penetrating flood light but high beam is supposed to be a big bold light and this wasn't that. So I pulled over, got out my trusty old Leatherman Wave multi tool and aimed the light a bit further off into the distance which did help a bit, maybe a fair bit but still a little lacking in my opinion. Certainly nothing I'd feel comfortable traveling at anything over 110 km/h with. Even the low beam at slow speeds (70-80km/h) felt a bit unsettling because after the initial rectangular patch it was hard darkness. Not enough for comfortable confident cruising. I felt on edge and wanted to slow down. Cars were catching up to me and getting up close behind as I stayed at or near the speed limit but high beam is certainly not good for speeds over 100km/h and I'd need that light if there are any on coming cars and I had to dip my lights back to low beam.
I reckon it might be adjustment both for the aiming of the light and maybe me having to adjust to a different type of light. Not sure. I have a nice flat driveway so I'll do the cross hairs thing as detailed in the manual and go out for another test but I did feel myself wanting...not the original H4 because that wasn't much chop either...but something a bit more. Maybe some of those super bright deeper reaching H4s?
Anyway, that's my report. I'm fine riding around town with this globe. What say you? Is this about adjustment or is this just normal for these LED globes? Should I be blown away with both low and high beam? I'd say low beam has definitely been improved at city speeds but the high is lacking. It added another small strip to the top of the rectangle but didn't light up the whole world. This was only a tiny investment though ($20) so I'm happy to keep experimenting. Maybe I'm expecting too much?
Great report Baz very comprehensive. :clapping: I personally will stick with the original H4's considering your recommendation. The cost of an LED headlight versus the amount of night riding I do is not economical. Well done and keep up the good work. :onya: :onya: :onya: :hat: :hat:
Quote from: GSXKING on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 11:27 AM
Great report Baz very comprehensive. :clapping: I personally will stick with the original H4's considering your recommendation. The cost of an LED headlight versus the amount of night riding I do is not economical. Well done and keep up the good work. :onya: :onya: :onya: :hat: :hat:
;)
They're pretty cheap (less than $20) and it arrived within a week if you're curious. But I'd like to try some H4 alternatives as well. Some of the super brights might offer a richer larger longer spread. I expect nothing but fantastic lights for a bike such as ours. These are ok, certainly no worse than stock and brighter for around town but (unless my aim is really way off) Not fantastic for higher speeds. I'll have a play and if I find the correct adjustment makes a large difference I'll certainly report back.
That is a bit disappointing for you im sure.
I will try to get a piccy of my Stedi LED at both low and high beam so you can see what an improvement that makes over the standard H4.
I suspect the issue with the Led globe is the reflector in the original light is not set up for LED. The globe can definitely put out more light than a filament unit, its all about how its reflected and focussed.
SA, sorry no good for you, especially as i recod them. Before LED i had Halogen+150, about strongest you get. LED low beam i find much better, high beam not as penetrating as it could be but still better than halogen. Maybe you need the Stedi full unit or couple of spotties.
I've tried a lot of different H4 LED replacement bulbs and found the same problem.
Looks great in the driveway. But then get out on the road - especially through some twisty, up and down mountain road near my place and I couldn't see an thing. Yet, the street signs or reflectors on guide posts would near blind me with their reflection. Wasn't impressed with any of the LED replacements I've tried so far. I could barely do 80kph safely and was relying on the cars around me to see the road.
That said - also, I tried some LED replacements in my car (H7) were OK - brighter, but didn't penetrate as far down the road as normal halogen bulbs. But here's the kicker - driving in the rain. I think the light colour being so white, all it did was reflect back off the wet road surface and I could barely see anything at all in the car. Was worse on the bike - I couldn't even make out the road in wet conditions.
When grog mentioned the Auxito brand LED, I found these.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AUXITO-H4-9003-HB2-15000LM-COB-LED-Headlight-Globes-Bulbs-Kits-High-Low-Beam-AU/393001532946?hash=item5b80b77e12:g:olQAAOSw~VhfoiXN
Which I liked the "look" better as it appears to have a properly reflected hi and low beam led like a H4 halogen.
Been trying to work out if I want to maybe waste the dollars to buy one to try... waste as in, if its no good, then it will just be thrown into the bin and I've already wasted a lot of money on LED bulbs already.
I tend to agree with the train of thought that the reflectors are really designed for LED bulbs and are more for halogens..
But - here is another possible option as well - that I think I will try - especially given the cost..
https://www.autobarn.com.au/all-crash-parts-semi-sealed-beam-round-178mm-7in-h4-p43t-crystal-sp137765
7 inch round headlight that could be a replacement for the current semi-sealed headlight. I think this, coupled with a decent Halogen H4, might will be an option..
Different reflector - could be just what is needed.. if I buy one, then I let you all know how it goes. If the different design helps to throw more light on the road.
A few years back I had something similar to these on my old model MX5 and they would really light up the road very nicely.
Yes, that Autobarn replacement does look good and the cost is very reasonable. I'd also be interested in how that goes if you get one.
No more headlight options from me, feel like ive stuffed that one up. Im happy with mine, havent tried it in rain. Sorry SA.
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 05:35 PM
No more headlight options from me, feel like ive stuffed that one up. Im happy with mine, havent tried it in rain. Sorry SA.
No, no, no. Absolutely no need to feel bad at all. I'm glad for the reco, it's opened up a new world of headlight options to me and it cost bugger all to try and to go back to stock will take all of about 38 seconds. Absolutely no harm at all. Now I've got something new to play with. It could be my adjustment and until I check that I'm not willing to right it off quite yet. Good to see others are a bit meh about them though. I was thinking I was being a bit picky. Are you still happy with yours because if you are then maybe there's something else going on here.
@BlueDragon thanks for that. Interesting that they have other motorcycle options. Here's a comparison.
The one I bought:
https://auxito.com/products/mt1-h4
The one you linked to:
https://auxito.com/products/fanless-motorcycle-h4-9003-led-headlight-hi-low-beam-6000k-bulb-play-and-plug-1860-csp-led-chip
This picture is from the ad on ebay that you linked to and it does look like a better bulb. This pic of the light beams looks more like what I was expecting from mine but "yours" costs nearly twice as much. I'd be willing to buy it and try it because it's still fairly cheap at less than $40 before discounts. If we can sort this out I think everyone can benefit because we need better lighting on these bikes that's for sure.
But before I order I want to make sure they don't have an even better one!
Quote from: grog on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 05:35 PM
No more headlight options from me, feel like ive stuffed that one up. Im happy with mine, havent tried it in rain. Sorry SA.
Agree with SA14...
grog.. you have nothing to feel bad about. Its all good that we share experiences so that everyone can know what a product is like.
I've even tried LED bulbs in the headlights on my VFR. Twin headlights on low beam and had similar results. the low beam was bright. but again, didn't seem to penetrate much on the road and there was no spread out past the edges of the road. No spread makes riding at night on dark country roads real interesting with kangaroos around. But strangely enough, again - road signs were so bright reflecting back at me, it was near blinding..
What I have also noticed - even in the car, that whilst headlight bulbs are getting "whiter" or even "blue-er" with the different light spectrums, - I've once again found that in the rain at night - these white bulbs are not very good at all. with the rain drops in heavy rain reflecting the light back in your face (car or bike) and not really lighting up the road. Whereas, the bulbs that have a slight yellow light spectrum offer good vision in the rain at night because the yellow light spectrum does not reflect back into your face. Which is why real fog lights are actually yellow as well - they pierce through the fog (water droplets) rather than reflect the light back in your face.
With the VFR, I went back to Halogen H4's by Osram - Night breaker laser - which has a 3200k light spectrum.
Taking a look at the attachment on my post - it is on the edge of yellow and certainly not a pure white. But I found the lights at night to be extremely bright - excellent penetration for long distance - even on low beam and the spread was also really good. I could see way off the sides of the road - easily to spot kangaroos.
What I will try to do over the coming weeks is to go put different bulbs in the GSX and take photos at the same time of time at the same spot and use my digital SLR with the same exposure settings when I take the photo so that the differences can be seen. Hope this might help everyone.
On that note, I did find on Yuotube a while back.. a guy in England was testing out halogen vs LED in his bike and whilst I can't remember which bulbs he tried, it was very noticeable in his video, that the halogen had better side to side spread beam and also better distance than the LED bulb. Whilst the LED bulb was brighter (whiter - LED, while the halogen was on the yellow spectrum), but that was it - just brighter.
I think it might just be case of finding the right light spectrum colour in a powerful halogen bulb - if using the Suzuki headlight. But for sure, I will try out the Autobarn replacement and see what that is like and post some pics.
Baz, check out Stedi.com.au they also sell just led bulbs as direct drop in replacements, the reflector design on their bulb is different to that shown in the link images. Not cheap, but if you don't want to change out the entire lamp unit, might be worth looking at.
Ive got their copperhead H4s in my Landrover high beam infills and they make a huge difference.
@SA14 I would suggest it may well be the bulbs you are using - many of these cheaper ones frankly give a naff beam and it can be a question of trial and error to get one that works appropriately.
I fitted replacement H4 LED bulbs to my Triumph and got a great light, far improved over the standard globes.
The ones I fitted were NIGHTEYE H4 9003 HB2 LED 50W 8000LM High Low Beam Headlight Kit Bulbs 6500K which I got from eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NIGHTEYE-H4-9003-HB2-LED-50W-8000LM-High-Low-Beam-Headlight-Kit-Bulbs-6500K-UK/333435624334?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
They also ship out down under as I found them on the eBay au site as well, about AU$35
Of course they may not give as good a light on the 14 and I never tested them on one either, all I can say is that they worked fine in my (ex) Triumph Explorer 1200
Quote from: BlueDragon on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 08:10 PM
...With the VFR, I went back to Halogen H4's by Osram - Night breaker laser - which has a 3200k light spectrum.
Taking a look at the attachment on my post - it is on the edge of yellow and certainly not a pure white. But I found the lights at night to be extremely bright - excellent penetration for long distance - even on low beam and the spread was also really good. I could see way off the sides of the road - easily to spot kangaroos.
...
This is interesting, I do like the normal Halogen light colour and I think it especially matches the theme of our bikes which is old school retro so I'd like to try the
Night Breakers (https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20LASER-Halogen%20headlight%20lamps-Car%20lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3043435/ZMP_4057692/). According to their website "Up to 150% more brightness, Up to 150m long beam and up to 20% whiter light and is the brightest halogen automotive light from OSRAM". I like the 3,200 k colour too even though it's whiter it still has the broad beam of a halogen. Sounds like the ticket but seems to only be available in twin packs for cars though.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 09:50 PM
@SA14 I would suggest it may well be the bulbs you are using - many of these cheaper ones frankly give a naff beam and it can be a question of trial and error to get one that works appropriately.
I fitted replacement H4 LED bulbs to my Triumph and got a great light, far improved over the standard globes.
The ones I fitted were NIGHTEYE H4 9003 HB2 LED 50W 8000LM High Low Beam Headlight Kit Bulbs 6500K which I got from eBay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NIGHTEYE-H4-9003-HB2-LED-50W-8000LM-High-Low-Beam-Headlight-Kit-Bulbs-6500K-UK/333435624334?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
They also ship out down under as I found them on the eBay au site as well, about AU$35
Of course they may not give as good a light on the 14 and I never tested them on one either, all I can say is that they worked fine in my (ex) Triumph Explorer 1200
These are the ones I bought and have tried them in both the VFR and the GSX1400..
Has to be the reflector shape/design of the VFR and 1400, that this LED bulb just doesn't work well for them, being that it works well for your Triumph.
Quote from: SA14 on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 11:07 PM
Quote from: BlueDragon on Tuesday, 01 December 2020, 08:10 PM
...With the VFR, I went back to Halogen H4's by Osram - Night breaker laser - which has a 3200k light spectrum.
Taking a look at the attachment on my post - it is on the edge of yellow and certainly not a pure white. But I found the lights at night to be extremely bright - excellent penetration for long distance - even on low beam and the spread was also really good. I could see way off the sides of the road - easily to spot kangaroos.
...
This is interesting, I do like the normal Halogen light colour and I think it especially matches the theme of our bikes which is old school retro so I'd like to try the Night Breakers (https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20LASER-Halogen%20headlight%20lamps-Car%20lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3043435/ZMP_4057692/). According to their website "Up to 150% more brightness, Up to 150m long beam and up to 20% whiter light and is the brightest halogen automotive light from OSRAM". I like the 3,200 k colour too even though it's whiter it still has the broad beam of a halogen. Sounds like the ticket but seems to only be available in twin packs for cars though.
What you want then
@SA14 is the Osram Night Racer rather than Night Breaker - exactly the same bulb / output etc, but made for motorcycles so absorbs any vibration better.
Wasnt going to comment again but am. Ive tried Osram Nightbreaker and Phillips version, X Treme. Also Repco +150. Theyre all in cupboard in shed. Repco was the best but thats what i compared Auxito to. Rain the only thing i never thought about or tried at night. Maybe i just like 6k to 3k.
@grog don't you dare stop commenting and sharing your opinion. You've helped me so much dude. This is not on you. You like the globe, I'm not sure it's for me and that's fair. I look forward to your thoughts, reviews, comments and suggestions in copious amounts as usual.
went to Autobarn today to buy the semi-sealed headlight in the link I shared.
Nil stock in the whole of Australia I was told..
Cross that one off Bluey.
Quote from: grog on Friday, 04 December 2020, 06:46 PM
Cross that one off Bluey.
Maybe not..
Trawling through ebay. I found this and others like it. While not at the cheaper price from Autobarn.. still afforable.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-Inch-178mm-Round-Universal-Semi-Seal-Headlights-Crystal-Clear-Pair-2-Pcs/142330872739?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
the other big ticket option is that Narva make a 178mm sealed beam headlight conversion kit. two headlights with bulbs etc for $190. That is all the local Autobarn had in stock.
I'd happily go the the pair from ebay. I just need to check out the mounting of the standard headlight in the housing to make sure it isn't too much of a hassle to replace it with the ebay one. There are no obvious mounts/screw holes in the ebay headlight.
Still thinking that a decent reflector will make the biggest and most cost effective option.
I thought about the Stedi LED option.. but being a sealed unit - makes me concerned.
Whilst I don't do much night riding these days - I did lots in my younger days as my bike was my only form of transport. On one of my trips, the headlight bulb blew. But I always made it a habit of carrying a spare bulb (still do). So, was able to stop and get the tool kit out, replace the bulb and was on my way again. Was between towns, heading home at the time. I just keep thinking if the same thing happened with the Stedi sealed LED unit, then I would be stuck on the side of the road as I wouldn't be able to replace the bulb.
Anyone using the Stedi LED headlamp - please feel free to correct me if I am wrong here..
Quote from: BlueDragon on Friday, 04 December 2020, 08:50 PM
Quote from: grog on Friday, 04 December 2020, 06:46 PM
Cross that one off Bluey.
Maybe not..
Trawling through ebay. I found this and others like it. While not at the cheaper price from Autobarn.. still afforable.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/7-Inch-178mm-Round-Universal-Semi-Seal-Headlights-Crystal-Clear-Pair-2-Pcs/142330872739?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
the other big ticket option is that Narva make a 178mm sealed beam headlight conversion kit. two headlights with bulbs etc for $190. That is all the local Autobarn had in stock.
I'd happily go the the pair from ebay. I just need to check out the mounting of the standard headlight in the housing to make sure it isn't too much of a hassle to replace it with the ebay one. There are no obvious mounts/screw holes in the ebay headlight.
Still thinking that a decent reflector will make the biggest and most cost effective option.
I thought about the Stedi LED option.. but being a sealed unit - makes me concerned.
Whilst I don't do much night riding these days - I did lots in my younger days as my bike was my only form of transport. On one of my trips, the headlight bulb blew. But I always made it a habit of carrying a spare bulb (still do). So, was able to stop and get the tool kit out, replace the bulb and was on my way again. Was between towns, heading home at the time. I just keep thinking if the same thing happened with the Stedi sealed LED unit, then I would be stuck on the side of the road as I wouldn't be able to replace the bulb.
Anyone using the Stedi LED headlamp - please feel free to correct me if I am wrong here..
I have run the stedi unit for the past 18 months now, no issues, top quality bit of kit.
Today i spoke to my grandson about H4 LED. Hes Auto Electrician. He also had Auxito globes in his car, liked low beam but reckoned high beam not good. He fitted Narva , said really good.
I've been thrown into a whirlpool of LED H4 conversions now. Not a bad thing. Fascinating stuff. Lots of videos on YouTube about it.
I contacted Auxito and said I wasn't really happy with the LED globe and asked if the one that was twice the price would be better. They replied "Yes, this double-sided chip will be better". Nothing about me not being happy with it's performance but I guess that's a cultural thing with them. Naturally, what else would they say but then I was thrown into a whirlpool of double sided vs single sided LEDs. No conclusions drawn yet but this is the one I was referring to which I also linked to earlier...
https://auxito.com/collections/motorcycle-led-headlight/products/fanless-motorcycle-h4-9003-led-headlight-hi-low-beam-6000k-bulb-play-and-plug-1860-csp-led-chip
You can see the construction is clearly different.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0012/8063/9049/products/fanless-motorcycle-h4-9003-led-headlight-hi-low-beam-6000k-bulb-play-and-plug-1860-csp-led-chip-18136360091800_576x576.jpg?v=1595239053)
Current one:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0012/8063/9049/products/auxito-h4-9003-motorcycle-led-headlight-bulb-hi-lo-beam-white-6500k-light-conversion-kit-with-csp-y19-led-chips-14000561586269_576x576.jpg?v=1575932516)
:onya: :onya: :onya: Keep us posted Baz :hat:
nnD_sDWNjEw
This makes sense
The more I see the more I want to re-examine finding the best H4 globe and sticking with that. But there are supposedly great H4 bulbs sitting on people's shelves. A few weeks ago I was riding around at night before I got my LED and I had to pull over, get out my philips head and try to adjust my headlight so it pointed up a bit more so I could get reach with my lights but it just disappeared. No way could or would I ride at speed (even 100km/h) with my lights and even riding around at 80km/h with low beam became too dangerous for me. So what's going on?
I find it hard to believe that any manufacturer of a motorcycle like ours would build useless lighting. Something else is going on. Two possibilities come to mind. Either having the headlight adjusted correctly is super critical - near enough isn't good enough maybe somehow everything comes together perfectly at the exact right adjustment or Suzuki used a specific bulb when they made these which aren't being replicated with modern replacement bulbs.
The next thing I'm going to try is the most powerful H4 light I can find and hopefully it'll be in the lower colour range because I'm not real fond of the whiteness anymore. Just doesn't look right - not that I can see it, but I know what it looks like. I also suspect that the LED is causing discomfort to oncoming traffic and as a despised receiver of super bright lights coming at me I equally don't want to be that guy.
Maybe bikes aren't designed for safe efficient night riding. Doubt it but it's a thought. I think the first thing is I should set up the cross hairs with electrical tape on my garage door and go back to make sure the alignment is spot on. I looked in every manual and download but couldn't find how to do it again. Can anyone remember where the headlight alignment diagram is? From memory I mark a vertical and horizontal line at the centre point of the headlight then reverse the bike a certain distance and the headlight should aim just down and to the left a bit but can't find the exact specs.
Found it! On Page Ref.27 of the Haynes Service and Repair Manual under MOT Test Checks. This should be saved under resources for others to refer to if it isn't already. I sharpened and aligned it in Photoshop and made it large enough so it's crystal clear. Click the image to see it in full size if needed. I'll label the picture so it can be found by the forum search engine. I presume this is for right hand drive traffic that travels on the left hand side of the road. The light should dip to the right for bikes that ride in left hand drive traffic on the right side of the road.
GSX1400 Motorcycle Headlight Beam Height, Alignment Adjustment
I know a lot of guys who do big distance night riding and although bike brands differ they all run LED spots hooked up to high beam of some variety
I was just thinking that. Aim the headlight super low and put it on high beam all the time. That should solve the "low beam" problem then add some accessory spotlights for high beam on a separate micro switch. But where to mount them without looking too shitty? Maybe move the horns and put them in that position? Or make up some black covers for day riding and remove at night. Or to hell with fashion and just mount them anywhere as long as they work.
SA, for spottys make up a bracket ala Snapey camera holder. One for each headlight bolt.
SA, spent arvo researching spotties. Too hot for anything else. 🥵 Seems Denali 2.0 are around the best. Kit comes with all thats needed. Lens can be changed, spot long distance or closer flood. One long and one close seems to be the go. Mounting point? Seems a few options to me. Their videos cover that.
I'd put spotlights on the cross bar. BTW it's tube not solid.
Another brilliant idea Snapey. 👍
Out of curiosity I started to wonder if other bikes with round headlights - which were better rated than the 1400's headlight, might also be a cost effective retrofit option.
Ready for a shock?
I looked at the Kawasaki Z900RS/Cafe headlight which is LED.
Just for the headlight alone - with no rear bucket or holding ring bracket etc - the cost is $2084 AUD.
https://www.kawasakionlineparts.com.au/partFinder/fiche/kawasaki/2019/z900rs/53-headlight-s#next
Not exactly cost effective... :lol: :lol:
Being a sealed unit, I'll bet once they start wearing out and blowing, that the aftermarket is going to make a killing with selling replacement headlights to Z900RS owners.
The front holding ring is $120, while the rear housing or bucket is $224.
That is one expensive headlight
What the...?! Makes our little $20 bulb experiments look insignificant.
$2G for a headlight? The Denali spots are Around $600. Stedl H4 globe LED $70, money back if not happy. Seems a fair deal.
https://www.stedi.com.au/motorcyle-h4-led-head-light-conversion-kit-stedi-night-pilots.html
Quote from: grog on Monday, 07 December 2020, 06:51 PM
https://www.stedi.com.au/motorcyle-h4-led-head-light-conversion-kit-stedi-night-pilots.html
Good gear that, I'm a fan of their products.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 07 December 2020, 06:51 PM
https://www.stedi.com.au/motorcyle-h4-led-head-light-conversion-kit-stedi-night-pilots.html
That driver unit box would stuff in behind the lamp in the headlight itself? How is it powered? We plug the original bulb socket into it and then it supplies it's own H4 style lead and socket? First LED globe I've seen so far with it's own driver unit. Is this common?
I just had a quick look around on e-bay :computer_type:
@BlueDragon for z900rs headlamps (used) and found two, one in Canada $800, and one in USA $600, let's just hope Kawasaki have made a reliable unit, otherwise it's a costly replacement. :facepalm:
Honda CB1100 also has an LED headlight, might be worth a look.
Assume you me the CB1000.
https://bluecitymotorcycles.com.au/oem/honda/search-parts?brand=honda&year=2019&model=5853&assembly=84238&accessory=&adrAssembly=
$1250 AUD
and not a easy replacement either when you look at the housing.
No, the CB1100.
Take a look at this.
https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/6574267/cb1100ex/headlight-cb1100cacadnanad
These headlight prices are getting silly, panel beater I know told me that he spat out his coffee when getting a price on Aston Martin headlights, not sure of the model, $7,000 EACH about 5 or 6 years ago
Mercedes dont replace later model globes, just whole assembly, around $5g. We do at work,new globe, mongrel job. They make it difficult. Around $300 done.
Quote from: steve porter on Tuesday, 08 December 2020, 09:28 PM
These headlight prices are getting silly, panel beater I know told me that he spat out his coffee when getting a price on Aston Martin headlights, not sure of the model, $7,000 EACH about 5 or 6 years ago
Yes stupid orices.
2012 model 5 series Beemer V8 with BiXenon headlights, fully sealed units, 5K a side.
These are supposed to be the environmentally friendly cars where most of the parts are recyclable.
And i thought replacement units for my Disco 4 were stupidly expensive at over 500 bucks each.
Quote from: steve porter on Tuesday, 08 December 2020, 09:28 PM
These headlight prices are getting silly, panel beater I know told me that he spat out his coffee when getting a price on Aston Martin headlights, not sure of the model, $7,000 each about 5 or 6 years ago
My business is restoring faded/yellowing headlights and I recently did a Mercedes SC300 the other month, he said "
be careful, these cost $4,000 to replace plus $1,000 for fitting and alignment - EACH = $10,000 to replace the pair".
In other news, just rang Narva and spoke to Daniel there in the tech department and discussed this all with him. He agreed that the LEDs are weird for some people and even some people's eyes (which I've never heard before). He agreed on the "weird in the rain" thing and suggested I try their best brightest H4 Halogen - the "
Plus 150 (https://www.narva.com.au/products/48382BL2)". He warned me to expect reduced bulb life because of the (stupid) always on feature. He said "volts drop when starting so amps increase to maintain the output and reduce the life of the globe" but at $95 for a pair I get a spare and he said I should be able to expect a year of life if driving at night most nights of the week. I ride mine at night maybe twice a month so I think I'm good.
He said I'll definitely notice heaps more light but only if I aim them correctly. He said to start with the "garage door" alignment but then head out onto a quiet unlit country road or dark side street and adjust the low beam so it moves off into the distance and starts to disappear then bring it back a bit. You want a nice strong pattern as far from the bike as possible without losing strength. That'll keep it from blinding people but give you the most light and the high beam will look after itself. He also said they're 3,200 colour range so they'll look "proper" for this style of bike which only matters to me but still.
I'm going to give them a try.
(https://dbve060ocfe16.cloudfront.net/ts1602125445/images/rp_760x500/Product/1685/48382BL2.tag.0.jpg)
I'm running +130's in mine. Don't think +150 was out when I got them. Mine have been in well over a year, but then it's not ridden every day with the lights on either, so the 1 year life span is a bit conservative.
I'll be interested to see what you think of the +150.
I bought some +110 Blue Narva bulbs the other day as they were on special, going very cheap. So thought, why not..
Like
@KiwiCol I don't ride everyday. Just on weekends, so bulb life shouldn't be an issue.
That said, I wasn't happy the last time I bought Narva bulbs as at the time I was doing very regular day trips to Sydney every few weekends. So would have the lights on during the day and night. Leaving at 4am and then getting home at around 10pm at night.
Had one bulb blow after 8 months. Wasn't happy at the time as I had paid about $90 for the pair. Expected them to last a lot longer.
These days, I'm rarely out at night on the bike, if at all. But still like to know I have good lighting in case I get caught out riding back home at night for whatever reason or just in general - knowing I will be able to see things at night if I need to take the bike out.
Eric, the complete Stedl unit you have. Is it 6k colour? Have you tried it in the rain? Just wondering as Blue said colour is a problem in those conditions.
Tried my auxito for the first time in the dark tonight, dry unlit mountain road low beam much better than the halogen, high beam hardly any improvement over low beam, but over all I was more comfortable than with the halogen
Grog,
Not that blue, 5700 kelvin according to the website
No issues in the rain or in the dark, just great light. As with all Leds, the reflection off the road signs is more, but overall visibility is so much better than halogen h4.
Quote from: BlueDragon on Wednesday, 09 December 2020, 05:26 PM
I'll be interested to see what you think of the +150...
Ok, so this evening I fitted the 150s and the short story is
they're fantastic! Feel free to buy a pair and fit them, you won't be disappointed.
Bought them at my local grumpy Repco store with my 5% RAA discount for
$95. I got two plus two bonus parkers - might drill the blank hole and fit one I reckon to save having zero lights when the bulb eventually blows as was mentioned by a member earlier. First thing I did was remove the LED and refit my (what I presume is a) standard H4 so I could do my alignment. Measured to the middle of the globe by blue tacking a steel rule to the front of the light and measuring with me sitting on the bike. It was 895mm for the record.
Went out to the front of the house which is a flat straight concrete driveway with a roller door and taped the cross as per the diagram to the front of the garage door then backed the bike straight back until it was 3.8 mm from the roller door, sat on it and turned the lights on. First thing I noticed was there wasn't a nice round light to aim for (see pics below) but I think I got it roughly right. The vertical was easy as the light seemed to have a wide but narrow beam so my first priority was to get the whole light below the horizontal line and then sort of aim it to the left a bit...ish. Turns out it was pretty ok but I later stopped and adjusted it a few turns to the left (I think) Couldn't really see that well and was just parked up next to an industrial wall behind a BP half way through my night ride.
Then I replaced the globe with one of the new 150s and did notice a brighter wider beam (second photo is the new 150). You can see that it is a bit brighter. So after chasing my dog around to try and get him into the back yard (he's sussed out when I'm going for a ride and turns into a less than impressed concrete dog) I hit the road and felt immediately pleased with the low beam. It was illuminating the road ahead very well and seemed to go quite a good distance up ahead. When I was riding behind cars in traffic I noticed that it never shone up into their rear window but instead stayed down near the top of the boot.
Rode around a while at 60km/h (you're honour) and found some darker streets which I dove into and was really impressed with the spread and depth of light. I also really liked it's colour. Definitely brighter but not super white. As mentioned earlier it 3,200k on the light colour scale so it feels "normal" which is what I wanted. So far I was really impressed. I kept riding and started heading for the highway and was pleased to discover that I felt totally comfortable at 80km/h on low beam so I headed for the freeway and guess what?
Totally comfortable on low beam at speeds up (well) "over" 110kp/h which really surprised me and made me really happy. Also had a chance to hit
the high beam and I would describe it as "WOW!" but not "POW!". The High beam was good and strong and broad but not quite "aircraft landing lights" if you know what I mean but definitely powerful and strong. I was loving these lights! Bike felt like a modern well lit bike. I felt satisfied for sure.
Then I found my way onto some twisty unlit roads up in the Adelaide hills behind blackwood and had a chance to test them on twisty corners on both low and high beam at speeds I probably shouldn't have been doing which will inform you as to the level of confidence this bulb inspired. But then when I was heading down a valley and
hit the high beam I felt like saying "POW!". Really that good.
Light up the entire hillside up ahead. So I'm guessing that some of the light on high beam is being lost into the air on a normal flat road - especially if it's got street lighting but get them alone in the dark going around the corner into a cutting and the whole landscape lights right up really bright.
This globe has surpassed my expectations and if the LED was this bright I'd have been super happy with it but to get this level of superior lighting from a normal colour H4 Halogen is surprising and unexpected.
Definitely a 5 star from me! If you're wondering
I'd totally recommend them for the 14.
Totally! I stopped at the local basketball stadium and found a totally dark entry road so stopped and took some shots. The first is in the dark so you can see there's no street lighting at all. The second the last photo is the low beam and the last photo is the high beam. But the high beam shot doesn't give you the full effect but it's not bad. On the packet it claims "up to 60 metres extra distance" and I'd say although I didn't measure it scientifically I'd be happy to say anecdotally it certainly feels that way.
Very happy to say --> "
Go out and buy the Narva Plus 150 "Maximum Volume. You will not be disappointed!" It's everything I wanted and expected from a modern light and it absolutely suits our 14s. I now feel comfortable riding at night at any speed with both the low and high beam and I think that's a pretty high recommendation. I'm THAT impressed.
10/10 overall satisfaction.
10/10 for low beam at all legal speeds up to 110+ kph.
9/10 for the high beam only because it's not a megawatt flood light.
:onya: :onya: :onya: :boogie: :clapping: :cheers:
Very good Baz.
Very Impressive
Probably needs to be moved a smidge more to the right more towards centre.
Then your Low would be too much to the right. The way high is it's great for spotting roo's & drop bears.
I find it so strange, +150 globe was what i had at start of this discussion.Had for a few years. It was good but i find LED better. Different views for different people i guess.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 10 December 2020, 06:19 PM
I find it so strange, +150 globe was what i had at start of this discussion.Had for a few years. It was good but i find LED better. Different views for different people i guess.
Yes, I remember you saying it was sitting on youyr shelf along with all your other lighting experiments. Could it be aim? The technical guy at Narva said it also depends on people's eyes. Some colour ranges don't suit some people. It could be that I'm defective...lol I've never been a religious guy so maybe I just can't see the white light? It could also be the terain. For example people in Sydney have lots of walls, rocks and apartments up close to the road to reflect off of. Adelaide more suburban. I did notice when up in the hills at night I could see lots of what was going on the side of the road and when turning the light seems to reflect more light where I needed it.
But the low beam on this is extraordinary, without being a flood light. It just seems to inspire confidence in me. If I'd bought this bike new and it had this much light I'd have fel that would be correct. It feels modern without being starkly white which could be against my taste. Who knows, you could still ride rings around me with half a headlight and a pirates patch so as long as we're all happy that's the main thing. Just wanted to let people know in case they were also thinking about increasing the light. The "150+" does indeed seem to have an extra 50% light which is what I assume it means.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Thursday, 10 December 2020, 05:02 PM
Then your Low would be too much to the right. The way high is it's great for spotting roo's & drop bears.
So you're saying that the high beams should be biased to the left when correctly aligned? It seemed to me that there was a lot of light shining up to the left. I think a smidge to the right will be perfect. I'll try, maybe tonight. Can;t wait to go out night riding again now. Ha.
SA, aim was perfect. Can remember few yrs back sorting that out. Cut off on low was as it should be, remains the same with diff. globes. Just below car windows in front. We have one of those testing machines at work, yeah, its good. Simpler way, someone on bike sitting, High beam, walk up to light, put finger on your clothes where it shines, walk back 4 metres, should be on same spot. High is straight ahead, Low just dips to left. Have done that test multiple times for car roadworthys. Test machine always agrees.
Quote from: grog on Thursday, 10 December 2020, 07:27 PM
SA, aim was perfect. Can remember few yrs back sorting that out. Cut off on low was as it should be, remains the same with diff. globes. Just below car windows in front. We have one of those testing machines at work, yeah, its good. Simpler way, someone on bike sitting, High beam, walk up to light, put finger on your clothes where it shines, walk back 4 metres, should be on same spot. High is straight ahead, Low just dips to left. Have done that test multiple times for car roadworthys. Test machine always agrees.
I do similar on a wall & just roll the bike back sat on it to check the height doesn't change.
I was just out there trying to shift it a bit to the right and the little screw wasn't doing anything that I could see and I was turning it a lot and now I've lost my position so have to start again. Ugh. The beam is so wide I can't see an edge. I've never actually seen an aiming machine anywhere. Wouldn't know where to go.
No, not saying that. I'm saying if you orientate your headlamp more to the right, the low would be too far to the right. Ya can't change where the filaments are in a bulb, so that buld just aims a bit far to the left on high. The Narva man may be able to suggest a remedy or other bulb that points different.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Friday, 11 December 2020, 02:39 AM
No, not saying that. I'm saying if you orientate your headlamp more to the right, the low would be too far to the right. Ya can't change where the filaments are in a bulb, so that buld just aims a bit far to the left on high. The Narva man may be able to suggest a remedy or other bulb that points different.
The original headlamp assembly has a small adjuster at 9oclock position that angles the lamp left or right in the housing. The adjuster underneath angles up and down, don't forget to undo the side mounting bolts as otherwise you're distorting the housing.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Friday, 11 December 2020, 08:16 PM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Friday, 11 December 2020, 02:39 AM
No, not saying that. I'm saying if you orientate your headlamp more to the right, the low would be too far to the right. Ya can't change where the filaments are in a bulb, so that bulb just aims a bit far to the left on high. The Narva man may be able to suggest a remedy or other bulb that points different.
The original headlamp assembly has a small adjuster at 9oclock position that angles the lamp left or right in the housing. The adjuster underneath angles up and down, don't forget to undo the side mounting bolts as otherwise you're distorting the housing.
Yeah, that's the adjuster I've been turning with no discernible change in the light's horizontal angle but I didn't know (or read anywhere) about undoing the "side mounting bolts"; which bolts are those? The ones that screw in the chrome ring that holds the lamp in? Do you mean loosen slightly? If so I'm guessing tightening them back up would also distort the housing and aim? Is it a bolt, screw, adjust, aiming "dance"? It doesn;t have to be super accurate I'm guessing. Could you elaborate a little?
Sorry Baz, shouldve been clearer.
The two M12 bolts holding the entire lamp on the bracket.
On mine the lower vertical adjuster is also nearly maxed out with the bike 3.8m from a vertical wall. See photo of the low beam from my LED headlamp.t