Just trying to get my K5 14 back and running after a while off the road. It was fitted (removed today...) with a Datatool immobiliser. This was mounted at the rear of the tray under the set, where the tool roll should be. I managed to trace the wires to the indicators and starter switch but there were five other wires connected to the bike's rear loom. The wires in the loom are all black! (though one seems to have a silver band at intervals) Two are earth, one has a permanent 12v supply and the other two have neither. Does anyone know what these wires are for? Are they for a factory option alarm/immobiliser? I'm sure they are part of the bike loom as they come out of the loom sheath with the indicator and tail light wiring, also the installer had soldered the datatool wires to them.
One other issue is that on switching the ignition on the clocks sweep OK but the CHEC message is displayed. The starter cranks but the fuel pump isn't running (I have connected a supply direct to the pump and it does spin, so it seems to be the signal from the bike). Any ideas?
Surely the black wires at the back of the bike are not connected to the fuel system??
From the manual.
Thanks, I'll check t he wiring but I haven't touched the wiring to the ECU or the clocks. The battery has been dead for a while so no power to the ECU or clocks. Does the ECU need to be reprogrammed?
Quote from: Stargazer on Tuesday, 01 September 2020, 02:27 AM
Just trying to get my K5 14 back and running after a while off the road. It was fitted (removed today...) with a Datatool immobiliser. This was mounted at the rear of the tray under the set, where the tool roll should be. I managed to trace the wires to the indicators and starter switch but there were five other wires connected to the bike's rear loom. The wires in the loom are all black! (though one seems to have a silver band at intervals) Two are earth, one has a permanent 12v supply and the other two have neither. Does anyone know what these wires are for? Are they for a factory option alarm/immobiliser? I'm sure they are part of the bike loom as they come out of the loom sheath with the indicator and tail light wiring, also the installer had soldered the datatool wires to them.
One other issue is that on switching the ignition on the clocks sweep OK but the CHEC message is displayed. The starter cranks but the fuel pump isn't running (I have connected a supply direct to the pump and it does spin, so it seems to be the signal from the bike). Any ideas?
Surely the black wires at the back of the bike are not connected to the fuel system??
From memory to get thatcham approved an immobiliser has to disable two things to stop the engine being run. Normally the starter which you've sorted & the fuel pump are chosen.
As the alarm was at the back of the bike I'd suspect a neatly fitted system would disable the fuel pump relay as it's nearest. That's the lowest relay hung sideways under the LH side panel. If you bridge it's connection and turn ignition on then the pump should run for 3 secs, that'd prove it's the immobiliser wiring that's the issue. Then you can trace the wires back with continuity tests and find which two to join up near the tail. The other two could be to stop it sparking, how that'd fit into the loom I'm not sure.
K5 onwards had factory alarm/immobilsers I think, my K2 doesn't & I've never done much with any 14 that wasn't a K2 or K3 to know the changes in the wiring.
Oh, Datatools always use all black wires to make them harder to bypass. If you trace them back through the loom far enough you should find the real colour wires & be able to join the matching pairs. That'd how I removed one years ago on an ex's bike when the alarms internal battery die & it wouldn't disarm.
Hooli, thanks, I read that in the Datatool fitting instructions I found online. It would make sense but I am confused with the wiring. The installation wasn't particularly neat, hence why I think the wires are OEM. The datatool wires were spliced into these at the tail and protected by a lot of insulation tape... The datatool wires to the starter were just tie-wrapped to the main loom going to the tail not pulled through the sheathing. The other end of the sheathing is neat and looks untouched going into the main loom.
I'll check the pump relay tomorrow.
One other thing, I dropped the bike before laying it up, fell heavily off the side stand. Is there a crash/tilt switch on these bikes???
There are a number of wires at the back - some of which are "live" that do nothing. When I had my 14, they connected the tracker unit I had fitted to the live and neutral (which I think originally Suzuki intended for a standard alarm). Suzuki also seem to use this conglomeration of wires for bringing together a number of the earth wires. It's a very weird concoction at the back where I think they were trying to use one loom for multiple markets. So if you have some wires which don't seem to connect to anything then I'm not surprised in all honesty
This from section 4 page 18 of the manual
TIP OVER SENSOR (TO SENSOR)
The tip over sensor is located in ahead of the battery holder.
The sensor detects the leaning of the motorcycle. When it leans
more than 43°, the mechanical switch turns ON and a signal is
sent to the ECM. At the same time, this signal cuts OFF current
supply to the fuel pump, fuel injectors and ignition coils.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Tuesday, 01 September 2020, 07:26 AM
There are a number of wires at the back - some of which are "live" that do nothing. When I had my 14, they connected the tracker unit I had fitted to the live and neutral (which I think originally Suzuki intended for a standard alarm). Suzuki also seem to use this conglomeration of wires for bringing together a number of the earth wires. It's a very weird concoction at the back where I think they were trying to use one loom for multiple markets. So if you have some wires which don't seem to connect to anything then I'm not surprised in all honesty
Barmy, thanks, that's the sort of thing I was thinking. The installer (I use the term loosely...) must have known about these. It definitely looks like OEM wiring, just a bit odd that there doesn't seem to be a connector. If it was intended for an alarm it's possible it does link up to the fuel pump.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 01 September 2020, 12:22 PM
This from section 4 page 18 of the manual
TIP OVER SENSOR (TO SENSOR)
The tip over sensor is located in ahead of the battery holder.
The sensor detects the leaning of the motorcycle. When it leans
more than 43°, the mechanical switch turns ON and a signal is
sent to the ECM. At the same time, this signal cuts OFF current
supply to the fuel pump, fuel injectors and ignition coils.
Col, thanks. Does this need to be manually reset? If so how?
No mate.
Quote from: Stargazer on Tuesday, 01 September 2020, 05:29 PM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 01 September 2020, 12:22 PM
This from section 4 page 18 of the manual
TIP OVER SENSOR (TO SENSOR)
The tip over sensor is located in ahead of the battery holder.
The sensor detects the leaning of the motorcycle. When it leans
more than 43°, the mechanical switch turns ON and a signal is
sent to the ECM. At the same time, this signal cuts OFF current
supply to the fuel pump, fuel injectors and ignition coils.
Col, thanks. Does this need to be manually reset? If so how?
You just stand the bike back up & it should go. It's there to cut out systems in the case of a drop & probably less likely to turn itself into a roadside BBQ.
Datatool often have a couple of extra wires (or even pairs of wires) to connect to seat, top box panniers etc using a simple push switch. So you may have extra unused wires.
Chaps, thanks for all the help, still no further on, in fact the old girl isn't even cranking now... And still have the CHEC mesage displayed.
I may have discovered what the extra wires are; after a lot of searching on the web I they should have a connector on the end (the Datatool butcher has just hacked it off to connect the alarm...) and it is some sort of diagnostic connector. The link below is from an SV forum, the 3rd picture in the first post illustrates exactly the wires I have but with a connector on.
https://www.v-strom.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=31295.0
According to the information in the post the fuel pump is connected through the connector but there is a bridge wire; for diagnostic purpose the fuel pump can be switched on and off via the connector. A friend has a similar one on his Busa too, sadly he doesn't have the battery on so he couldn't check the pins for power and earths. Of the 5 wires I have one at 12v (permanent), 2 earths and two that have no power or earth (permanent or switched). My logic is that the two which aren't power or earth are the two to connect together. However, the plot thickens; the mate with the Busa has another Busa loom, this too has a connector with a loop in it which is not shown on any of his circuit diagrams. He's done a bit of digging on this loom and it is possible one of the linked wires is the 12v feed and the other goes into the ECU. This could explain the CHEC message as the ECU is not getting its 12v feed.
If anyone has their tail off the bike could they look and see if there is a connector with 5 black wires (a couple may have silver bands on too) going into it, if possible check which pins is live, which are earths and which two are linked (there is a "blank" connector on the end which should have a link in). Below is a link to a loom on ebay, the 3rd picture shows the rear wiring connections and you can just make out the one with the black wires. And yes, I have thought of buying it!
Sorry link to loom, though it says GSF 650, the link I clicked on said GSX1400, bugger...! Though the wiring is similar and in a similar position.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/c/726823387
The CHEC message usually means the kill switch is off.
According to the electrical schematic in manual it could be 30A and 15A fuses, ignition switch, side stand relay in conjunction with side stand switch and gear position switch then the engine stop switch, after all that the signal goes to the ECM.
Here's the best diagram to follow, if your starter motor was working you had power coming out of the kill switch.
Got the old girl running! The circuit diagram I ordered form from Kojaycat arrived this morning; thankfully the diagram has the mystery connector and wires on it (I was worried it may not as these wires did seem to be a bit of a conundrum on the forum!). Armed with this I had the bike running in less than an hour. Could have been quicker but I checked and double checked where each wire went as I didn't want to fry the ECU.
According to the diagram (and it fits with the old Busa loom my friend was looking at) there are two connectors. One with a permanent 12v, this goes to the red/white stripe wire on the starter relay via the fuse box.
The other four wires are in the other connector; one connected to negative/earth, one is a false earth. It connects to the orange/yellow stripe wire on the side stand relay. With the relay connected it bells to earth, with the relay removed it is open circuit to earth. Be aware of this if you use these wires for accessories. The other two wires are the ones that are connected together. One is connected to the orange/white stripe wire which goes to the ignition coils and the kill switch. The other stays black and connects to the other side of ignition coil no.2 and the ECU.
So the CHEC message was displayed because the kill switch didn't have anything to it (not sure if it's 12v or a lower ECU signal voltage, I didn't check...)
As mentioned the butche...installer obviously knew these wires were there and just hacked off the connectors, rubbish soldering and insulation tape connected the immobiliser.
Thanks for all the information and help, it is appreciated. Hopefully this will help if anyone else has a Datatool 3 system fitted and it causes problems or needs to be removed.
Good you got it going, but I don't understand how the starter cranked.
In the wiring diagram I looked at there would appear to be a spare plug with 9 wires most seem to good to inputs into the ECM, I have not looked to see what they can duplicate.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Friday, 04 September 2020, 05:50 AM
Good you got it going, but I don't understand how the starter cranked.
Now I've been through the circuit me either!
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Friday, 04 September 2020, 05:59 AM
In the wiring diagram I looked at there would appear to be a spare plug with 9 wires most seem to good to inputs into the ECM, I have not looked to see what they can duplicate.
On my diagram there are a couple that are not labelled and seem to be spare. Now she's running I'm not delving any further...
Quote from: Stargazer on Friday, 04 September 2020, 07:06 AM
Now she's running I'm not delving any further...
Indeed, if it ain't broke...
I had a look at the Kojaycat website, seems good value for money for an A3 colour laminated diagram.