I want to remove my Givi top box and the frame uses the top rear shock bolt as a mounting point. No probs. 6mm Allen key and whoa...super tight. Better stop, head to the online manual (thanks org!) and it says "just undo the bastard!" but man is it super tight! Not one to really enjoy rounding things off or snapping a fresh set of allen keys bought specifically for this job (needed a new set anyway) I stopped.
The manual says nothing about spring compressing so I'm guessing it's not under any pressure but it must be. Anyway, got them half off (found the right hand side was half off anyway!) but they got tighter as they started to come out so I reversed it all and did them up as tight as I could using a 3/8 socket with a 6mm allen head but it started to "round off" way before I got to "fucken tight" (16 ft/lbs) so now I'm not sure.
Is it a matter of breaking through some loctite or something? At no point did the bolt feel like it was easier to undo. I turned it total about 3 or 4 turns before reaching the "ok that's too much force now" moment and the allens are starting to either round off the bolt head or themselves. Do I absolutely need a torque wrench to do them up again? Seems like a pretty critical bolt to be only using a 6mm allen.
Or..."Oh My Dog Dude! Put the tools down and back away from the bike!"
The last photo is of the right hand upper shock mount half undone.
The bolt doesn't take any of the shock loads, it's only there to stop the top bush sliding off the frame lug.
I'd spray the back of it with wd40/plusgas/your favourite. As I think they go right though the threaded bit, so you'll have a dirty end on the bolt that you're trying to force through the thread after a few turns.
Oh & when it's off, I always pop the top of the shock off & smear a little grease inside the bush so it doesn't seize on the frame.
The PO could have put loctite on the threads as that bolt has been known to come loose.
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 05:26 PM
The bolt doesn't take any of the shock loads, it's only there to stop the top bush sliding off the frame lug.
I'd spray the back of it with wd40/plusgas/your favourite. As I think they go right though the threaded bit, so you'll have a dirty end on the bolt that you're trying to force through the thread after a few turns.
Oh & when it's off, I always pop the top of the shock off & smear a little grease inside the bush so it doesn't seize on the frame.
Thanks for that and success!...on the left but the right (the side that was half undone) got so tight that yep, I rounded off the inside of the allen hole. It got really tight at the end, I was sitting square on and using two hands to make sure the allen key was square in the hole and it just stopped turning. Before this I did spray liberally with WD40 from the inside and through the exposed threads, let it sit for a while (maybe not long enough) then did the in and out slowly to try to get some penetrant into the threads. It seemed uncooperative from the start so I'm thinking that maybe it's been half out for a while (maybe from the time the top box was installed) and might have bent with use?
This is as far as I could get it out before it stopped and I rounded the hole.
Sigh...nothing to do but push on. Open to all suggestions hit me with what you'd do.
1) Multigrips? Not enough room to swing them.
2) Drill and ezy-out?
3) Weld a bolt head to it? Eek
4) Cutting disc a screw slot then impact driver? Eek
None of which are going to be fun, I know.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:01 PM
The PO could have put loctite on the threads as that bolt has been known to come loose.
Yeah, that's the powdery stuff on the successfully removed bolt?
Run a tap through the threads & clean up the bolt, she'll be right.
Also, once extracted I'm going to need new bolts. I'm going to go with a normal reliable hex head...unless anyone has any other suggestions? Is it screwing into steel or aluminium? Will I need anti seaze/copper lube or loctite again? If loctite - which one? The manual doesn't mention either of these thread treatments so just "screw the bastard back in again!"?
Into steel. A Stainless bolt with a bit of coppercote would do.
I use a drop of threadlock as they come loose, it's into steel by the way.
Quote from: KiwiCol on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:13 PM
Into steel. A Stainless bolt with a bit of coppercote would do.
Thanks, don;t suppose you know if it's threaded all the way through or will I need a bolt exactly this length?
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:14 PM
I use a drop of threadlock as they come loose, it's into steel by the way.
Catch me up a bit (it's been a while), coppercote and loctite on the same bolt?
Do I need to buy a torque wrench for this? I know I should have one anyway but this is turning into an expensive repair instead of a simple unbolting. 16 lb/ft isn't much. I'm guessing "bloody tight"'ll do.
Off to Chunnings.
Get some PlusGas penetrating spray on the bolt and let it soak in. Personally I would use a centre punch on the edge of the bolt head and tap it aound and out using a hammer..Carefully.
As already mentioned, run a tap down the threaded holes to clean the old Loctite and threads out.
Replace with dome head M8(I think from memory) stainless Allen bolts and washers. You can either Loctite them in, or if you will want to remove them again easily use some Nickelslip on the threads. It's far better than Coppaslip.
I would shy away from Easy-Outs as they have a nasty habit of snapping off and then you're in a whole world of poo. Also I wouldn't try your option 3 either. Option 4 could be an option, but I think my method will work ok.
Good Luck :onya:
And NO...You won't need a torque wrench. Just do them up tight, but not stupid tight!
NO..It's not threaded all the way through. I think the bolt length is either 25 or 30mm.
:computer_type: I bought a Teng Tools torque wrench 2 to 25 Nm off ebay for 75 AUD. Best value for money and essential IMHO for working on these or any motor bikes if you don't want bits to break or fall off.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:35 PM
:computer_type: I bought a Teng Tools torque wrench 2 to 25 Nm off ebay for 75 AUD. Best value for money and essential IMHO for working on these or any motor bikes if you don't want bits to break or fall off.
I've got a Teng Tools 1/4 drive 2-25Nm as well. I usually only use it for the 8 cam cover bolts as they are M7 and prone to stripping the cam cap threads out.
Quote from: froudy on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:37 PM
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 06:35 PM
:computer_type: I bought a Teng Tools torque wrench 2 to 25 Nm off ebay for 75 AUD. Best value for money and essential IMHO for working on these or any motor bikes if you don't want bits to break or fall off.
I've got a Teng Tools 1/4 drive 2-25Nm as well. I usually only use it for the 8 cam cover bolts as they are M7 and prone to stripping the cam cap threads out.
I've stripped three of those using the extension bar as a screwdriver (no ratchet attached!). The cam journals appear to be made of soft cheese.
Thanks got all the above. Bought a set of easy outs and screw extractors too as well as a metric tap and die set. They didn't have anything anti seize at all. I'll use a dab of grease.
Thought of the push around with a centre punch but this is already in there pretty tight and the bolt head is tiny and domed so not sure how much twisting leverage I can get on there. Its on there pretty tight. I need a good "purchase" on an ezy out to turn it with some force.
I'll think I might try the screw extractor first then drill into the damage that that does if not successful.
Also decided against stainless and went with M8x1.25 x 25 (luckily I remembered to bring the good bolt with me) high tensile gold hex head bolts. It'll look pretty agricultural but I'll spin and polish the heads, might even give them a slight dome of their own.
First the extraction. Stay tuned and again thanks for all your help.
Do as froudy suggested, or use a sharp cold chisel to turn it by tapping it around, 100 % success guaranteed using the shock method compared to 0% with an easy out on a bolt that tight, it'll break and you will be pissed and down an easy out
Quote from: steve porter on Tuesday, 25 August 2020, 10:52 PM
Do as froudy suggested, or use a sharp cold chisel to turn it by tapping it around, 100 % success guaranteed using the shock method compared to 0% with an easy out on a bolt that tight, it'll break and you will be pissed and down an easy out
I just pop over to Froudy's as I am not that good with mechanical bits with my arthuritus :bugga:
@froudy
Is it out yet? :imrgreen:
That's what she said :lol:
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:29 PM
That's what she said :lol:
That's better than her asking if it's in yet :whistling:
Quote from: froudy on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:13 PM
Is it out yet? :imrgreen:
Ha, no. I tried to get the vice grips onto it but no room to swing them. Had a busy day of headlights today but tomorrow off. I'll give it a go because in Adelaide this week and weekend is the best riding weather we've had in months.
Quote from: mjgt on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 06:14 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:29 PM
That's what she said :lol:
That's better than her asking if it's in yet :whistling:
Haha, people told me this place was a little weird. I'll fit right in I hope.
Quote from: SA14 on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 07:44 PM
Quote from: froudy on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:13 PM
Is it out yet? :imrgreen:
Ha, no. I tried to get the vice grips onto it but no room to swing them. Had a busy day of headlights today but tomorrow off. I'll give it a go because in Adelaide this week and weekend is the best riding weather we've had in months.
Quote from: mjgt on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 06:14 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:29 PM
That's what she said :lol:
That's better than her asking if it's in yet :whistling:
Haha, people told me this place was a little weird. I'll fit right in I hope.
Yes, but remember Notty is not a real person, just an AI program inserted by 'Mike da Boss'
Quote from: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 07:45 PM
Quote from: SA14 on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 07:44 PM
Quote from: froudy on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:13 PM
Is it out yet? :imrgreen:
Ha, no. I tried to get the vice grips onto it but no room to swing them. Had a busy day of headlights today but tomorrow off. I'll give it a go because in Adelaide this week and weekend is the best riding weather we've had in months.
Quote from: mjgt on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 06:14 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 05:29 PM
That's what she said :lol:
That's better than her asking if it's in yet :whistling:
Haha, people told me this place was a little weird. I'll fit right in I hope.
Yes, but remember Notty is not a real person, just an AI program inserted by 'Mike da Boss'
I am real !! Honest !! Froudy will vouch for me
@froudy :)
Quote from: Notty on Wednesday, 26 August 2020, 07:52 PM
I am real !! Honest !! Froudy will vouch for me
@froudy :)
Yes..Notty is real :imrgreen:
Here he is trying to work out how to swing a leg over my old DRZ400 :happy1:
He mustve done great, you gave him a 10. 😂
Froudy is a master of photography & with that comes image manipulation. :clapping: The above pic shows the results he can achieve, photoshopping some poor old geeza into a bike pic to further enhance the illusion that Notty is an actual person. :whistling: :happy1: :rofl2: :stir:
Quote from: KiwiCol on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 05:57 AM
Froudy is a master of photography & with that comes image manipulation. :clapping: The above pic shows the results he can achieve, photoshopping some poor old geeza into a bike pic to further enhance the illusion that Notty is an actual person. :whistling: :happy1: :rofl2: :stir:
It it the drugs Col? This is the real Notty !! :)
Yar mon!
If you had the OEM bolts in the mount, I'd be less concerned. However from your pictures, they are most definitely the bolts that Givi supply which are pretty damn soft.
Personally I'd get some Plus Gas and get that down the threads - Plus Gas is very thin and gets in where stuff like WD40 doesn't. Without bolting it up, try doing and undoing the bolt using loads of Plus Gas as you go and (hopefully) eventually bit by bit it will come out. If you don't have Plus Gas, use ACF50, works just as well, if neither then WD40 will work as well, but may take a little longer.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 08:29 AM
If you had the OEM bolts in the mount, I'd be less concerned. However from your pictures, they are most definitely the bolts that Givi supply which are pretty damn soft.
Personally I'd get some Plus Gas and get that down the threads - Plus Gas is very thin and gets in where stuff like WD40 doesn't. Without bolting it up, try doing and undoing the bolt using loads of Plus Gas as you go and (hopefully) eventually bit by bit it will come out. If you don't have Plus Gas, use ACF50, works just as well, if neither then WD40 will work as well, but may take a little longer.
That would explain it. I think the bolt is bent from being half undone for dog knows how long. It's properly fucked and yeah I was super surprised when the allen key just rotated. I tried screw extractors but they all destroyed themselves. Made in China out of "dontgiveafuckanite" so the only option was to break off a drill bit deep in the bolt which I've done successfully. Next step - grinder. So I ground a slot into it with a cutting disc but the big arse screwdriver wouldn't budge it. It's welded in solid.
My only next option is to hire a mobile welder to come and weld a nut on there and hopefully it won't snap when undoing. I'm guessing it will. Not sure what to do with a snaped drill in there though. Further drilling is out of the question. Might have to trailer it to an engineering shop.
My instincts were right in the first place. I should have just took to that frame with a grinder but no... I had to try it the proper way. Serves me right.
There's no such thing as "plus gas" in Australia. I've drowned it in WD40 for the last two nights. It's stuck for sure. I tried slamming on a socket right over the whole head (saw it once when trying to get a locking lug nut off a wheel) but it won't have it. The head seems hardened but the allen hole was soft. Me no understandy.
Now that I've got a slot maybe smashing the fuck out of it with an impact driver might budge it.
Or, what about grinding the bolt head right off so I can remove the shock and (stoopid) carrier frame (which I will throw as far as I can)? I'll then grind off the rest of the bolt and that might grind down past the snapped off drill allowing me to drill the whole thing out and retap (providing my super chinese tap doesn't also break off (which I'm totally expecting).
When you do finally get it out DO NOT use a cheap made out of cheese, Chinesium tap to clean the threads out. Use a good quality one..Don't bodge it! :onya:
https://www.facebook.com/captainthread/
Quote'We are a fully mobile business operating in South Australia, Adelaide and metro suburbs. We specialise in Broken bolt removal , thread repair, sump plugs, head bolts, spark plugs, brake calipers, bleed screws, helicoils , keyserts, repair , we can also help you add a thread for extra oil cooler line, coolant line. We cater for Industrial, automotive, private, you name it , if it's got a bolt ,a thread and it snapped, or no longer holds. we can fix it, we use only quality helicoils, keyserts, bigserts.'
Leave it to the pros and return your man card.
Damm
Ok so I'll add -
Avoid easy outs as if they break then you have a much bigger problem than you started with.
Don't use grease in lieu of coppaslip or nickelslip. Just use nothing until you can get some.
You don't need loctite but if you do, just use some blue (243) Loctite - sparingly. You don't need a lot.
If you happen to have red loctite - throw it away now. Its a danger to everything. :lol:
Got lucky! It's out.
1) Grind off remaining bolt head
2) Remove shock (swing it out of the way after loosening the "tail body work" (noob...lol)
3) Grind bolt down until no hole (or old drill bit) is left. Luckily the bolt was far enough out to do that.
4) Drill tiny hole (because where the hell is my centre punch!)
5) Drill larger hole until drill is so blunt it won't dril anymore (using WD40 in the absence of proper cutting paste)
6) Insert easy out and swear at it with a warning
7) Battle with extremely poor quality tap holder (gave up - wouldn't grip the square end) and start carefully and gingerly trying to screw it in (backwards of course). Felt something turning but couldn't see what. Get torch to see what was turning and low and behold the bolt started to squeak loudly but... turn it did.
8) Extract and swear very loudly at it. Threads look good inside!
9) Find M8 1.25 pitch tap and turn it into the hole by hand. It turned quite easily but about half way through I had to get my little shifter to turn it all the way to the end.
10) Try original bolt from the other side and it screwed in easily with fingers. Proceed to next level of excitement
11) Try Chunnings gold high tensile bolt. Screwed in easily.
12) Replace shock, screw in new gold bolts, tighten to two grunts.
Back away slowly then re-apply for a temporary man card.
Thank you everyone!
P.S. Machines need blood to live so yep, I was correctly injured during the procedure as per the manual.
P.P.S. Why cheap and shit tools? Lost everything I ever owned in a financial catastrophe a few years ago. Just now getting back on me feet and buying essential tools only from Chunnings until I can afford a proper precision set of tools again.
Wow
@SA14 good result!!!! And what a relief as well. Glad it all came good in the end
Cool.
Now if you wish to make your life even more rewarding - move to Brissie ! :)
Good on ya SA14, glad it came out.
Hope you signed the Health and Safety book after that severe paper cut.
Can't believe you didn't identify that little hazard :stir:
Good result in the end.
Good result.
If you're not refitting the rack I'd put a bigger washer on it, from memory the 'mushrooms' that normally go that are as wide as the 'loop' on the top of the shock. That holds it all in line so the bush won't tear.
Well done SA14, good job.
:salute:well done like Hooli says, please put a bigger washer in behind the head of that new bolt.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 03:00 PM
Wow @SA14 good result!!!! And what a relief as well. Glad it all came good in the end
Total relief! Perfectly said. My smile was broad this afternoon. You guys all helped which is love old school forums so much. On Facebook this would have been buried in a few minutes. Facebook does the impossible. it both blows and sucks at the same time.
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 03:27 PM
Cool.
Now if you wish to make your life even more rewarding - move to Brissie ! :)
Too humid for me. Plus you guys are just a little bit crazier up there. My theory is it's because you don't get seasons...lol Discuss.
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 05:25 PM
Hope you signed the Health and Safety book after that severe paper cut.
Can't believe you didn't identify that little hazard :stir:
Good result in the end.
The cut was from slipping on the spanner...as it should be. No blood though which is a shame because I always wipe some of my blood onto every vehicle somewhere so I can really claim ownership but now with this kickback from the 14 I feel satisfied that it's "my bike" now.
and Thanks.
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 05:41 PM
Good result.
If you're not refitting the rack I'd put a bigger washer on it, from memory the 'mushrooms' that normally go that are as wide as the 'loop' on the top of the shock. That holds it all in line so the bush won't tear.
Ah, that makes sense. I copied the washer from the existing bolt but now that you've informed me it's an incorrect bolt I'm not surprised it's not the right washer either. I'm not sure I'm totally in love with the gold finish because everyone knows where they come from and what they are. I'll try and source a proper bolt with a nice dome head and get a proper fat washer too. Thanks for the tip.
Quote from: mjgt on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 07:21 PM
Well done SA14, good job.
Thanks. I hope it helps someone else at some point in the future. That's why I wanted to heavily document my tiny struggle because I've been helped by heaps of threads on here already. Working my way through every thread. Better than TV.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 07:32 PM
:salute:well done like Hooli says, please put a bigger washer in behind the head of that new bolt.
:salute: Yep, noted and will do. Just on this, is ok to ride like this on the weekend? I've only ridden this thing once - not counting some slow tight corners around the backyard the other day...lol. Need to put some triple digit kms on it because it's also got 3 year old petrol in it.
But seriously, I know I've said it a lot but thanks forum. You guys rocked so now I can roll.
Is there anything more noble than stopping to help a newbie? :hat:
Id be draining that 3yo fuel out quicksmart fill with nice new 95Ron and a bottle of petrol injector cleaner and go for a fast ride AFTER fitting the correct washer.
Theres a thread on here about the nightmare that is off fuel and the havoc it causes to the fuel tank and efi system.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 08:50 PM
Id be draining that 3yo fuel out quicksmart fill with nice new 95Ron and a bottle of petrol injector cleaner and go for a fast ride AFTER fitting the correct washer.
Theres a thread on here about the nightmare that is off fuel and the havoc it causes to the fuel tank and efi system.
The previous owner filled the tank to (almost) overflowing with 98 so no water could condensate and checked the tank before storage for rust and said it was super clean. It shouldn't take me long to use it up and I'm guessing it's still good if not at it's peak ron. Or I spose I could use it for the lawnmower. I'll look for that thread. Thanks for the tip.
Quote from: SA14 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 07:45 PM
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 03:27 PM
Cool.
Now if you wish to make your life even more rewarding - move to Brissie ! :)
Too humid for me. Plus you guys are just a little bit crazier up there. My theory is it's because you don't get seasons...lol Discuss.
My missus - also from Adelaide - still feels the same after 8 years....
What sooks you south Aussies are :P
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 05:41 PM
Good result.
If you're not refitting the rack I'd put a bigger washer on it, from memory the 'mushrooms' that normally go that are as wide as the 'loop' on the top of the shock. That holds it all in line so the bush won't tear.
I was checking out the manual this morning to see if they mention the size of the washer (they don't) but the thing that sits between the bolt head and the shock's top mount is called a "hook" (see pic below). Can someone please take a photo so I know what I'm looking for? Is it a hook for a strapping point like on the tail? In the absence of said "hook" I will get a broader washer with an M8 hole but given I'm trying to restore and save this bike from previous "shenanigans" I'd prefer to use as close to a stock part as possible.
Also, with the hook I'm going to need a longer bolt too I'm guessing? Don't suppose anyone has it apart to give me the measurements of the bolt with the hook? I bought M8 x 25mm hardened bolt and may ask about the price of the bolt and hook from Suzuki in case they're affordable.
Quote from: VladTepes on Friday, 28 August 2020, 10:08 AM
Quote from: SA14 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 07:45 PM
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 03:27 PM
Cool.
Now if you wish to make your life even more rewarding - move to Brissie ! :)
Too humid for me. Plus you guys are just a little bit crazier up there. My theory is it's because you don't get seasons...lol Discuss.
My missus - also from Adelaide - still feels the same after 8 years....
What sooks you south Aussies are :P
Yeah, we're used to a certain lifestyle. The best thing about Adelaide is that everyone else laughs at us for having toff accents and will never move here which is perfect and just how we like it. Adelaide is the jewel of the planet as far as we're concerned. The riding down here is incredible and it's all within 50km of the city with great roads webbing out in all directions.
Update: that "hook" isn't anywhere in Australia and "will have to be ordered from Japan and will take 3-6 months to arrive". So FTS I'll have a local machinist turn one up from the photos and measurements I hope I can get off you guys. Thinking about that washer it makes sense that if the rubber fails the shock could slide off the bolt - no much goodliness there. So as y'all said - "get big washer noob!"
Might go to a proper bolt specialist and get a proper dome head and a proper set of allen sockets with a mini torque wrench for good measure. This all started when I tried to remove it with just an allen key when I should have bought and used a proper allen socket. Also the length of the bolt would be great if anyone has that so I can get a proper bolt, have or adapt a "hook". I wonder if any other motorcycle has that hook attached to the top shock bolt? Can't be THAT unique - shirley.
The parts availability from Suzuki is indeed terrible. I was told they won't air freight and wait until they have a container of stuff that needs shipping.
Have you checked mick hone parts online? They usually have everything.
Just checked my 1402, has the original upper bolts and bobbins
Quote from: SA14 on Friday, 28 August 2020, 11:02 AM
Update: that "hook" isn't anywhere in Australia and "will have to be ordered from Japan and will take 3-6 months to arrive". So FTS I'll have a local machinist turn one up from the photos and measurements I hope I can get off you guys. Thinking about that washer it makes sense that if the rubber fails the shock could slide off the bolt - no much goodliness there. So as y'all said - "get big washer noob!"
Might go to a proper bolt specialist and get a proper dome head and a proper set of allen sockets with a mini torque wrench for good measure. This all started when I tried to remove it with just an allen key when I should have bought and used a proper allen socket. Also the length of the bolt would be great if anyone has that so I can get a proper bolt, have or adapt a "hook". I wonder if any other motorcycle has that hook attached to the top shock bolt? Can't be THAT unique - shirley.
You'll need two of the 'hooks', one for each side. They are indeed for bungees etc for luggage. I've got a set of the bobbins (hooks) and bolts sat on my kitchen table, once I've had breakfast I'll grab the vernier from the garage & let you know the sizes.
Those bolts you took out, looked like the correct ones supplied with the Givi rack. The hook/bobbin doesn't fit when you put the rack on so has to be replaced.
Oh I forgot to say, if you're putting it back to standard one bolt on each side of the grab handle has a hook/bobbin on that the givi kit removes too. I can't recall if they go in the front or rear bolt hole though.
Have a few pics & a high quality CAD design for the parts. I'll add photos to my next post as my phone is refusing to connect to the PC, again.
Pics
Quote from: Hooli on Friday, 28 August 2020, 05:59 PM
You'll need two of the 'hooks', one for each side. They are indeed for bungees etc for luggage. I've got a set of the bobbins (hooks) and bolts sat on my kitchen table, once I've had breakfast I'll grab the vernier from the garage & let you know the sizes.
Those bolts you took out, looked like the correct ones supplied with the Givi rack. The hook/bobbin doesn't fit when you put the rack on so has to be replaced.
Thanks for the fantastic photos and "cads"! The rack did have a hook/bobbin attached to the middle of it's frame (pictured) but it doesn't fit into the existing vacated hole on the rear bolt hole of the passenger grab handle. Your bolts look MUCH beefier than the piddly little bolt givi gives for the top shop bolt. I can see why I was having dramas...sheesh.
So even though I have a hook/bobbin it doesn't look like it fits anything (too short for the grab handle hook/bobbin) although it does have 20mm of thread as opposed to the 25mm that was the givi shock bolt and my Chunnings* replacement was based off that bolt. It's not exactly like the factory bolt but I wonder if it'll do the job anyway?
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Friday, 28 August 2020, 12:53 PM
Have you checked mick hone parts online? They usually have everything.
Just checked my 1402, has the original upper bolts and bobbins
No I didn't. I did see him on google though when searching for "Suzuki Motorcycle parts". Will check though. Thanks for the heads up.
Quote from: VladTepes on Friday, 28 August 2020, 12:27 PM
The parts availability from Suzuki is indeed terrible. I was told they won't air freight and wait until they have a container of stuff that needs shipping.
Well that's just dumb. Might have to ring someone in Japan to go and grab one and mail it to me if I can't find or make one in Australia.
* Bunnings is the local hardware conglomerate in Australia but they only (or mostly) sell Chinese crap so I call them "Ch"unnings.
Pic
The hook/bobbin that was screwed onto the givi rack about half way.
The piddly givi shock bolt for comparison.
This plot is thickening nicely.
You'll could also try machining up your own.
BTW, bunnings is pretty good, they sell Stanley, sidchrome and kinchrone hand tools, dewalt, making, bosch and aeg power tools as well as the usual low end stuff, but you get what you pay for. Bolts I agree are mainly agricultural use, but can get you out of trouble
They do but they're often the off brand versions not the really good stuff. Makita for example has good gear and chinese gear. My local chunnings has eliminated the knowledgeable tool person from the tools section entirely and replaced it with a teenage muslim girl with a scarf on her head who looks at me blankly when I ask any question about tools. She had to look up what an allen key was and also what a tap and die set was. How they thought that was a good idea is beyond my understanding but I guess di-worse-ity and super (non)equal opportunity for everyone is all that matters these days.
Regarding machining my own, that's exactly what I'm thinking. I'll have to find a local machinist. Seems like a pretty simple job. I even have the givi hook to show as an example for the profile. There is one guy wrecking a 14 here but he won't let me browse the parts. He only wants to know the exact part with a picture so he can go and get it from his warehouse and his prices are over the top. He now gets annoyed when I call so I called for the last time about these bolts and never again. It's ebay, gumtree or England for parts.
SA, search gsx1400 luggage bobbins. E Bay.
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 29 August 2020, 05:26 PM
SA, search gsx1400 luggage bobbins. E Bay.
Thanks. I did that but got zero results and only found
these (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Suzuki-GSX650f-gsf650-gsx1250-SV1000-SFV650-SV650-DL650-Bandit-650s-1400-Bobbins/273697223452) which are unsuitable and a lot of crash bobbins. But I adjusted my search terms and found "
paddock stand bobbins (//http://)"...I wonder if they'd work?
Just checked the Mick Hone site (thanks for the suggestion) and he has all the parts listed but I have to ring on Monday to see if they have them in stock. In the meantime I enlarged the washers behind the top bolt but couldn't find anything really strong so I doubled up. Looks janky but I torqued it up to 16 lb/ft as per the manual and I reckon it's good to ride until I get the nice stock parts.
Also for the rear grab handle that givi hook/bolt wouldn't reach the threads so I tried the givi bolts which were very long because they pass through a tube before bolting into the top (rear most) hole on the grab handle. I decided to screw them in and see how far they go and low and behold they screwed in just enough to produce a makeshift hook!...lol It's not correct because the head isn't contacting the grab handle but it looks good I reckon and the grab handle isn't moving at all. Not a big issue because I won't have a pillion and I have a car for shopping so the givi stuff wasn't doing it for me at all. Now (with the scratched up and faded) fairing removed as well it's a full normal naked bike again. I'm pleased (for now) and I was able to polish the tail piece. Looking better and better every day.
Good enough to ride without being embarrassed. Last pic for comparison.
There used to be someone on here that made all sorts of replacent parts for the GSX1400 from stainless. I had these along with a gear shift rod, foot peg pivot pins, wheel spacers and swing arm pivot caps. Superb quality, but I don't think he does them any longer which is a great shame.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 08:50 PM
Id be draining that 3yo fuel out quicksmart fill with nice new 95Ron and a bottle of petrol injector cleaner and go for a fast ride AFTER fitting the correct washer.
Theres a thread on here about the nightmare that is off fuel and the havoc it causes to the fuel tank and efi system.
Been trying to find that thread for a while Eric. No luck so far. Can you remember the thread? And what's the best way to drain the fuel? Been trying to find a thread that mentions that and again no luck - still looking.
Hi SA14 I had a look and if you go to the fuelling thread scroll down to the section how to clean out your tank and filter, hopefully all the lnfo you need is there. :coffeescreen: :boogie2:
Quote from: SA14 on Saturday, 29 August 2020, 10:33 PM
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 27 August 2020, 08:50 PM
Id be draining that 3yo fuel out quicksmart fill with nice new 95Ron and a bottle of petrol injector cleaner and go for a fast ride AFTER fitting the correct washer.
Theres a thread on here about the nightmare that is off fuel and the havoc it causes to the fuel tank and efi system.
Been trying to find that thread for a while Eric. No luck so far. Can you remember the thread? And what's the best way to drain the fuel? Been trying to find a thread that mentions that and again no luck - still looking.
See here for fuel system https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=430.0
And here for the off fuel one (I think its the right one...)
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1474.0
Thanks for that. I've read both this threads. They're great threads but that guy had problems starting the bike after it had sat and the other thread is about cleaning out the entire fuel system which I don't need to do right now (hopefully).
My bike starts right up and runs fine. I was just going to take it for a few long rides to use up the old fuel but you've got me concerned so unless you agree "should be fine just don't thrash it" I'd rather drain the fuel, use it for my lawnmower and enjoy fresh new BP98. So I'm just looking for an easy way to drain the tank. Is there a hose I can disconnect and run the fuel pump to empty into s container or do I have to buy a siphon and a two 20 litre jerry cans? There used to a petrol cock in the old bikes we'd hook up a fuel hose to that and let it drain. Not sure on these though.
Scrolling through the manual but haven't been able to find how to drain the fuel from the tank in a civilised way. I'm guessing it's very simple but would rather know what I'm doing than go on a hose pulling adventure.
I'll start a new thread I think as this is going off topic. Thanks again for help guys.
I'm such a noob...lol. Still, having a tonne of fun.
Syphon it out, you won't get 100%, but you can get most of it out
Hi SA14, didnt mean to concern you, issue is when the fuel goes off, the entire fuel system gets this algal growth in it that is very hard if not impossible to get rid of, meaning new tank, efi pump, lines and possibly injectors. If you think its fine and have looked inside the tank and all is good, then go for it.
By the sounds of it your fuel should be ok, but pays to check.
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-jiggle-siphon---brass-1.5m-x-12.5mm-7lpm/557064.html
I have had one of these for years and use it all the time, handy for emptying Or filling bike tanks
Quote from: froudy on Saturday, 29 August 2020, 10:22 PM
There used to be someone on here that made all sorts of replacent parts for the GSX1400 from stainless. I had these along with a gear shift rod, foot peg pivot pins, wheel spacers and swing arm pivot caps. Superb quality, but I don't think he does them any longer which is a great shame.
Oh man, they look great. As do these but I'm not sure how big they are or what bolt size they are. Thread needs to be M8 with a 1.25 pitch. I've emailed the seller with the pics and drawings from this thread.
Quote from: steve porter on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 09:13 AM
Syphon it out, you won't get 100%, but you can get most of it out
Thanks, I'll do that probably. Seems like with an electric fuel pump handy it might have been simpler to let it do the work without having to buy a syphon but I'll do what I have to do.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 09:22 AM
Hi SA14, didnt mean to concern you, issue is when the fuel goes off, the entire fuel system gets this algal growth in it that is very hard if not impossible to get rid of, meaning new tank, efi pump, lines and possibly injectors. If you think its fine and have looked inside the tank and all is good, then go for it.
By the sounds of it your fuel should be ok, but pays to check.
I appreciate the warning. It taught me something new as did this algae growth - eek! Didn't even know that was a thing. The previous owner was aware of the dangers of air in the tank when storing and filled it to the brim. He said he's experienced rust issues in another 1400 he had (he had three) but this one was clean after a close inspection with a scope (I think - can't remember exactly) but he assured me the tank was fine and the bike was ready to ride although it starves over 5,000 so that (according to what I read on here) means it's time to clean (at least) the teabag or whatever else needs doing in there. I have no problem waiting and doing everything to make sure there's no avoidable damage being done.
Just went out and took a video of the inside of the tank (with my old iPhone). Looks a bit brown! Can't see much though. Might have to find someone with a scope to have a really good look around. I hope I don't have to dismantle the tank and replace or repair everything inside. I really was hoping this would be a rider and not need an entire fuel system overhaul. I've ridden it down to the authorities to get registration into my name which was a nice slow ride of about 15 kms.
Quote from: steve porter on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 10:08 AM
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/sca-sca-jiggle-siphon---brass-1.5m-x-12.5mm-7lpm/557064.html
I have had one of these for years and use it all the time, handy for emptying Or filling bike tanks
Thanks for the suggestion. The reviews are a bit unkind to it saying the hose isn't flexible (enough or at all depending who you believe). You're not having any issues with an "uncooperative" hose?
Mines so old, at least 20 years,the hose is as stiff as a board, been meaning to replace it, but it still does the job, emptied the 14's tank out a couple of weeks ago when I was pissing about with the filter
Mate, if the fuel smells ok, youd know if it doesnt, just ride it and use it up. After that pull out pump etc. have a look. Clean filters etc. Wynns fuel cleaner is great stuff, not the shop one but the one only available at workshops. Youll have to find a workshop that uses it, add to your next tank of petrol. Job done. The fuel jiggler hose is a great product also, hose is a bit stiff but not really a problem.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 03:31 PM
Mate, if the fuel smells ok, youd know if it doesnt, just ride it and use it up. After that pull out pump etc. have a look. Clean filters etc. Wynns fuel cleaner is great stuff, not the shop one but the one only available at workshops. Youll have to find a workshop that uses it, add to your next tank of petrol. Job done. The fuel jiggler hose is a great product also, hose is a bit stiff but not really a problem.
Agreed, if it burns just use it up, it wont take long and it wont damage the bike.
Quote from: steve porter on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 10:47 AM
Mines so old, at least 20 years,the hose is as stiff as a board, been meaning to replace it, but it still does the job, emptied the 14's tank out a couple of weeks ago when I was pissing about with the filter
Thanks, good to know.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 03:31 PM
Mate, if the fuel smells ok, you'd know if it doesn't, just ride it and use it up. After that pull out pump etc. have a look. Clean filters etc. Wynns fuel cleaner is great stuff, not the shop one but the one only available at workshops. Youll have to find a workshop that uses it, add to your next tank of petrol. Job done. The fuel jiggler hose is a great product also, hose is a bit stiff but not really a problem.
Quote from: grog on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 03:31 PM
Mate, if the fuel smells ok, you'd know if it doesn't, just ride it and use it up. After that pull out pump etc. have a look. Clean filters etc. Wynns fuel cleaner is great stuff, not the shop one but the one only available at workshops. You'll have to find a workshop that uses it, add to your next tank of petrol. Job done. The fuel jiggler hose is a great product also, hose is a bit stiff but not really a problem.
Yep, I saw you mention it in the other thread. I'll try and source some.
Quote from: mjgt on Sunday, 30 August 2020, 06:44 PM
Agreed, if it burns just use it up, it wont take long and it wont damage the bike.
Thanks, just took a sniff and it smells just like fresh petrol. In fact I had to blink a few times rapidly because I think I stuck my schnoz in a bit too close. But, if that's the test I'm good to go.
It's a shame I took this thread off track because this is good stuff and it belongs in the fuel section to help the next excitable noob.
You guys are very helpful. Thanks again.
SA, i had a look at Mega Zip site. Worth getting, every bit for 14 diagrammed. Your shock bolt and hook available. Bolt is 8mm x 37. Part number 09106-08156-000. $7.65 US. Id just buy from bolt shop. Hooks, $14.58 US. Part number 62318-42F00-000. No idea of freight cost.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 31 August 2020, 06:53 PM
SA, i had a look at Mega Zip site. Worth getting, every bit for 14 diagrammed. Your shock bolt and hook available. Bolt is 8mm x 37. Part number 09106-08156-000. $7.65 US. Id just buy from bolt shop. Hooks, $14.58 US. Part number 62318-42F00-000. No idea of freight cost.
Thanks for that. Never heard of MegaZip. Bookmarked. Great share!
I rang Mick Hone and they had everything except the shock bolt and washer in stock. I also rang that local bike wrecker who has a 14 in bits and he said he had the shock hook/bobbin but wants the new price for it and isn't negotiable so I'm going to grab it tomorrow (because it's not really a wearing part so same-same and it's local so no shipping and I can put it on tomorrow) and go to a bolt shop and get the right bolt to fit. Thanks for the dimension. I'll Probably grab the grab handle bobbin from Mick Hone and I think I'm done. Will report back to this thread as I fit the new parts.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 31 August 2020, 06:53 PM
...Your shock bolt and hook available. Bolt is 8mm x 37.
Quote from: Hooli on Friday, 28 August 2020, 06:44 PM
Shock bolt is 43mm
Guys can I get a definite measurement? Grog says 37mm, Hooli shows 43mm in the drawing. I'm about to head down to the bolt shop. Want to make sure I get the right size so I can bolt up the local used bobbins/hooks.
Edit:
I just rang the bolt shop and they only have 35 or 45 anyway. I'm guessing a 45 and cut it down? They also have zing coated hardened steel which they say is actually tougher than stainless but they have both. I know these are tiny little decisions but anyone got any thoughts?
My 43mm was from measuring a bolt froudy sent me with the bobbins when I bought them off him.
From memory I don't think the exact length is critical provided enough is in to grip the thread. It's only there to stop the shock moving, it shouldn't be taking any loads normally. I'd let the longer one & if it screws in all the way it's fine.
Thank you.
316 Stainless is fine too.
Wrecker came through and found the bolts too! $40 all up.
Also having them here I thought I'd clear up the 37mm or 43mm...it's both! Depends what you're measuring. The entire bolt is 43mm but the thread is 37mm.
Good result n look as intended. :onya: :clapping:
Good result, all sorted. Reckon thats the longest thread ive seen about a bolt.😂👍😂
Quote from: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 05:48 PM
Good result n look as intended. :onya: :clapping:
Absolutely. I'm chuffed!
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 06:29 PM
Good result, all sorted. Reckon thats the longest thread ive seen about a bolt.%uD83D%uDE02%uD83D%uDC4D%uD83D%uDE02
:rofl2: Hahahaha!! I reckon! But hey, that's just the kind of folk's we are. Non 14ers wouldn't understand. It's a perfect example of you guys all pitching in to help a new 14er.
I heart old school forums.
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 06:29 PM
Good result, all sorted. Reckon thats the longest thread ive seen about a bolt.😂👍😂
We screwed it for all it's worth :lol:
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 07:34 PM
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 06:29 PM
Good result, all sorted. Reckon thats the longest thread ive seen about a bolt.😂👍😂
We screwed it for all it's worth :lol:
With twists along the way. :facepalm:
Quote from: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 07:53 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 07:34 PM
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 06:29 PM
Good result, all sorted. Reckon thats the longest thread ive seen about a bolt.😂👍😂
We screwed it for all it's worth :lol:
With twists along the way. :facepalm:
Aye to tap the depths
Good result well done Noob
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 08:06 PM
Good result well done Noob
Yes, I'm pleased. Might reapply to have my man card returned.
Coodna dunit without yuz.
Quote from: SA14 on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 05:07 PM
Wrecker came through and found the bolts too!
What wrecker did you find that had a 1400? Last time I was looking I could find nobody!
Quote from: VladTepes on Thursday, 03 September 2020, 10:41 AM
Quote from: SA14 on Wednesday, 02 September 2020, 05:07 PM
Wrecker came through and found the bolts too!
What wrecker did you find that had a 1400? Last time I was looking I could find nobody!
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-view-details.html?adId=1249516516
He's got a 2002 in bits. As of Sep 2020 anyway.