Went for a ride with management on the pillion seat today. About 50kms into our ride and the bike starts running rough. It just wants to cut out and its hard to keep it running when changing down approaching give way or stop signs.
This has happened before but l have just opened the fuel cap and the problem has resolved itself leading me to believe it was a tank breather problem. Well today the problem plagued us all day despite continually opening the fuel cap.
Smelled hot when we stopped but pipe looks dark
Any thoughts please lads ?
Bad fuel? Is in water contaminated?
Thanks Blubber. Will have the tank off this week and check for that and make sure filters are clean.
Check clutch switch operation..They can cause running problems if faulty.
That's a shame Col, did opening the tank temporarily resolve it this time or just no effect now?
Lube ya side stand...
I find mine gets slightly stiff & then doesn't fully seat upwards, which can mean the side stand switch is flickering on/off as the bike vibrates. As you know these bikes cut out in gear with the stand down so it can make them run rough. At higher revs they are smoother so it doesn't seem to happen.
I always give the switch a squirt too, as road dirt can build up on it's 'shaft' so it doesn't slide in fully as well.
Id be looking at the sidestand switch as mentioned or the clutch switch if it got wet. Check battery terminals too
Thanks guys will investigate those switches.
No change when opening tank cap Col.
Running rough and cutting out need definition ,not trying to be a smartarse its just that cutting out implies no fuel/spark and running rough , ie flooding/ missing on one cylinder is a different symptom usually from my experience the clutch and side stand switch cut the ignition, the exception would be arcing which may give you what would I would describe rough running but with pipe looking dark , not sure how you pick that with unleaded fuel ? sounds like a fueling problem last time my bike had those symptoms it was a bad TPS anyway I hope this helps a little,
Have a good one ,
Horse
Clutch & sidestand cut the ignition & fuel pump. But yes you'll notice the ignition cutting first.
We got home but l didnt enjoy being cruel to the bike. Lots of clutching to keep the revs up in slow traffic and to keep the engine running.
Most likely be the weekend before l get to look at things but am hoping its the sidestand switch.
Thanks for your input guys :cheers:
Sounds like the exact same problem I had with my old Bandit `12, (however, it had been unused for a few months). Trim 5ml from the HT leads at the spark plug end. It turned out to be a 2 minute fix and the bike was running like new again.....gotto be worth a try on yours i`d think, assuming the side stand sensor is ok. :onya:
First time out on the bike since my issue a month ago.
Cleaned the clutch and side stand switches. Bike ran faultless. Hopefully it's sorted. Thanks for the advice guys. :onya:
Beautiful day today. So we set.off for Taupo about 9.30. Bike ran flawlessly until about 50kms out of Taupo heading home and it starts playing up again.
I pushed the sidestand down while going along and the bike totally cuts out when the stand is down 2 or3 inches so its not that.
The bike spits and farts black smoke so l'm thinking it has to be electrical.
So it's time for more investigation.
Thought l'd fixed it as it had run 60k on Tuesday and 170k today before starting to play up.
Now l'm grumpy :angry:
Black smoje = unburnt fuel, so either a cylinder isnt firing or the fuel balance is off.
Check your plugs, the blackest one will tell you more. Check the ht leads on that one coil pack and so on.
Then id be synchronizing the throttle bodies after checking the tps and stps readings.
Hope you get it sorted.
It's certainly frustrating, l hate intermittent faults.
I could probably start it in the morning and it could be fine.
Yeah, it's hard to diagnose when it's intermittent. I'd be going to the plugs & leads, then coils if they check out. How long have those plugs been in Col? Peace of mind, bung in a new set. just std ones.
Has the sound of electric as opposed to mechanical issue anyway.
Yes Col l'm convinced its electrical. It's actually had this issue on and off for 5 years but until recently it seems to have cured itself when l have opened the fuel cap, so for a long time l was looking for a blocked tank breather, but its not that yet it ran properly after doing so.
At least we got home but l hate torturing an engine like that. :thumbs_down:
Col, running very rich but not actually misfiring? IAP on 14 is same thing as MAP sensor on cars. If they play up on cars they usually run rich as Bill Gates. Unfortunately there is no test on unit, only voltage to it and vac hoses. IAT also needs checking. My thoughts, if all of a sudden its over fuelling its bad info to the ECU.
It sure is weird Grog. The first thing l notice is when l clutch in to change down the engine dies. Let the clutch out and it fires. So coming to a stop sign l hold the clutch in early, maybe in 3rd or even 4th gear and coast to a stop holding the revs up around 4k then lots of clutch slip with it popping and farting to get underway. Soon as l let the revs drop the fire goes out.
Been thinking about this one, You've got heated grips yeah? anything else drawing current that's non standard? Wild shot is battery, when low revs, not enough power to do all & dies, higher revs bit more juice. Would also account for the rough running.
Don't want to keep you awake at night Col.....
It runs rough right through the rev range. I do run a couple of LED daytime running lights as well as the grips. So l checked battery voltage tonight and its showing 12.3v Started the bike and its no different. Pulled the plugs and all 4 are the same.....sooty black. Surprised it ran at all. Think l will bung some new plugs in it just for good measure.
Thanks for your thoughts :onya:
Battery voltage should increase to around 14.5V when you rev the bike up if the charging system is working...
Check the generator output. Remove sprocket cover and disconnect the 3 pin plug with yellow wires. Test meter on any pair from memory you should get 80V.
A good battery should be sitting at 12.65 - 12.85 12.3 needs charging. You say it's no different when you started the bike, does that mean it was still at 12.3 whilst running? If it was at 12.3 after you switched it off, I'd of thought it would of been higher than that after running a bit.
Yeah, I do go to bed early.
what sort of problems does that loose stator nut cause?
Quote from: KiwiCol on Monday, 20 July 2020, 05:11 PM
what sort of problems does that loose stator nut cause?
Abnormal noise and no charging if the rotor is loose and not turning all the time.
Ya haven't got a cleaning cloth or tennis ball stuck down inside the air cleaner have ya? :imrgreen:
Quote from: KiwiCol on Monday, 20 July 2020, 05:19 PM
Ya haven't got a cleaning cloth or tennis ball stuck down inside the air cleaner have ya? :imrgreen:
Yes..That would cause problems :imrgreen: :rofl2:
Havn't tested battery with engine running. I can leave the bike for three weeks and it fires up immediately. So many things seem to contradict each other.
Col, yeah check charge rate, basic test. If thats ok, something is telling ECU to over fuel. all those sensors need a check. All plugs black, nothing to do with throttle balance or STPS ot TPS. Or unless intake blocked as said.
Strange alright Grog. I was riding at a reasonably steady throttle setting at 100k ish, in traffic on open road, go to down shift, blip the throttle but nothing happens. Let the clutch out and catch it, pull the clutch in and now it pops and farts.
We stopped, l opened the fuel cap, played with the side stand then got the bike started, l'm using a lot of throttle to catch it and keep it lit but its spitting and popping black smoke.
The bride is quiet at this point realizing that offering advice is not required. (bless her)
Hi Kiwifruit,
Not sure if youre running an aftermarket (PC III or V etc.) or not, but have you checked that the ecu is not defaulting into dealer mode? Do the old paperclip trick to see if any fault codes in the ECU, even if the F1 light hasnt lit up.
Process of elimination will get you there.
Hmmmm, I'm thinking either 1 of the sensors is crook, which you'd think would throw a code, but anyway, or the ecu is messed up.
How do you reset the ecu on these? Disconnect battery, push starter, flash lights etc & wait 20 odd min then reconnect battery?
I could send the ecu from my black (blacks must have another black ecu else it won't like it) up & have a crack with that, let me know if you want to try it.
What about the stps, if that were saying the throttles were wide open that'd give you over fueling for sure. On a car I'd be saying to clean or replace your maf sensor, but we don't have one of those.
Have you still got the pairs system on it? Have a check all your rubber hoses are connected etc.
Thanks for the offer Col. Will spend some time checking hoses etc. Pairs is blanked off.
Bike is standard Eric.
Battery is showing 14.11v at 3000rpm. I think thats OK.
Just running in the shed now and the engine sounds sweet.
I did tell her l promise to clean her soon !! :confused1:
14.1v running is good charging - agreed. How's the battery ½ an hour turning off? If she's down to 12.3 again, it's not good.
Intermittent for 5 years odd & getting worse . . . How about getting a dealer mode switch & next time she does it, flick the switch n see if there are any codes showing?
Think something is telling it to overfuel. Been told it could be a temp sensor.... do we have one ?
I'm sure there is a temp sensor
Is it not the one at the front of the motor on the right side .
The Manuel will give more info
Yes Seth I've got the Haynes bible handy. Cleaned up the plugs and put them back in. Cleaned up some multi plugs with contact cleaner behind the left hand side cover. I read on a post that Suzuki Boi had some issues with things behind there.
Started the bike, a lot of black soot came out, warmed the bike and cleared the black gunk out.
Revs clean and idles at just under 1100rpm. Have disconnected the battery and put on charge, was showing 12.85 when l turned the charger off for the night. Will go for a ride tomorrow night if time allows.
Then if it's a good girl l will put the new plugs in.
Hoping for you Col. Have a read on Haynes, 4.12 to 4.14. IAP is the main one to make it rich, bad connection, vac hose leak. If that sensor loses vac it goes to Wide Open Throttle Mode, that is giving lots of fuel.if sensor is faulty or intake hose has crap in it, same result. Intake just a carby clean job. Try taking vac hose of while running to see if any difference, should be.
Cheers for that Grog :onya:
Bump! So how'd this go Col? I'd sure be interested to know
Will try and have more of a squizz over the weekend Col.
Have bought some 'Lanocote' a CRC product to spray into multi plugs. Talked to a fella at a new Suzuki dealer in town. They sell and service jetskis. He says the biggest issue with intermittent faults on jetskis is dry electrical joints. Recommended 'Lanocote', smells like its made from sheep's arseholes.
Some in the valleys might find that quite appealing :whistling:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Friday, 24 July 2020, 05:17 AM
Recommended 'Lanocote', smells like its made from sheep's arseholes.
Some in the valleys might find that quite appealing :whistling:
:rofl2: :happy1:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Friday, 24 July 2020, 05:17 AM
Will try and have more of a squizz over the weekend Col.
Have bought some 'Lanocote' a CRC product to spray into multi plugs. Talked to a fella at a new Suzuki dealer in town. They sell and service jetskis. He says the biggest issue with intermittent faults on jetskis is dry electrical joints. Recommended 'Lanocote', smells like its made from sheep's arseholes.
Some in the valleys might find that quite appealing :whistling:
Notty will be in the market for some of that, he hasn't been out much since lock down. :lol:
Poor Notty, he is partial to a bit of wooly. :happy1: :onya:
Quote from: mjgt on Friday, 24 July 2020, 05:14 PM
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Friday, 24 July 2020, 05:17 AM
Will try and have more of a squizz over the weekend Col.
Have bought some 'Lanocote' a CRC product to spray into multi plugs. Talked to a fella at a new Suzuki dealer in town. They sell and service jetskis. He says the biggest issue with intermittent faults on jetskis is dry electrical joints. Recommended 'Lanocote', smells like its made from sheep's arseholes.
Some in the valleys might find that quite appealing :whistling:
Notty will be in the market for some of that, he hasn't been out much since lock down. :lol:
Get in bulk direct from the source !!! :rofl2:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Sunday, 19 July 2020, 05:38 PM
It sure is weird Grog. The first thing l notice is when l clutch in to change down the engine dies. Let the clutch out and it fires. So coming to a stop sign l hold the clutch in early, maybe in 3rd or even 4th gear and coast to a stop holding the revs up around 4k then lots of clutch slip with it popping and farting to get underway. Soon as l let the revs drop the fire goes out.
That does sound like vacuum pipes or the MAP sensor that they run too, about a certain amount of revs/throttle the ECU just goes off the TPS to calculate the airflow, hence it only dies at low revs.
The MAP is the sensor between the frame tubes under the tank, if you unplug it the bike with run with the FI light lit. Worth a try though to see if it behaves.
I believe it's also the same part as the ambient air pressure sensor hung on the RH side of the airbox, so you could try swapping them to see if the fault changes too.
I don't think he's getting any codes or FI light though.
You don't get an FI light for split vacuum pipes as I found out recently & if the MAP is reading wrong but not out of range you won't get a FI light for that either.
Cheers Hooli.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:34 AM
You don't get an FI light for split vacuum pipes as I found out recently & if the MAP is reading wrong but not out of range you won't get a FI light for that either.
Not directly no, i was getting the C28 code (STPA) which went away after replacing vac lines, balancing the tb's and resetiing the TPS and STPS and adjusting fast idle. So they are all interrelated.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:23 AM
revs.
The MAP is the sensor between the frame tubes under the tank, if you unplug it the bike with run with the FI light lit. Worth a try though to see if it behaves.
I believe it's also the same part as the ambient air pressure sensor hung on the RH side of the airbox, so you could try swapping them to see if the fault changes too.
I can't remember if trying to run with the MAP sensor disconnected brings up a fault code..But I know from memory that the bike does not run or idle well. I balanced my throttle bodies and forgot to reconnect it and the resluting fault was a bit alarming at the time until I realised my mistake and reconnected it.
Quote from: froudy on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:28 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:23 AM
revs.
The MAP is the sensor between the frame tubes under the tank, if you unplug it the bike with run with the FI light lit. Worth a try though to see if it behaves.
I believe it's also the same part as the ambient air pressure sensor hung on the RH side of the airbox, so you could try swapping them to see if the fault changes too.
I can't remember if trying to run with the MAP sensor disconnected brings up a fault code..But I know from memory that the bike does not run or idle well. I balanced my throttle bodies and forgot to reconnect it and the resluting fault was a bit alarming at the time until I realised my mistake and reconnected it.
It does light the FI light with it unplugged, I see it every time I balance the throttles.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 12:22 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:34 AM
You don't get an FI light for split vacuum pipes as I found out recently & if the MAP is reading wrong but not out of range you won't get a FI light for that either.
Not directly no, i was getting the C28 code (STPA) which went away after replacing vac lines, balancing the tb's and resetiing the TPS and STPS and adjusting fast idle. So they are all interrelated.
I've seen that code just from both throttle sensors being far enough out of adjustment, so what you did to fix it makes sense.
I think the ECU compares them to control the fast idle (secondary throttle motor turns 'backwards' to do the fast idle) so it expects to see the TPS within a certain range whilst the SPTS is showing it's in 'fast idle'.
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 26 July 2020, 05:23 AM
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Sunday, 19 July 2020, 05:38 PM
It sure is weird Grog. The first thing l notice is when l clutch in to change down the engine dies. Let the clutch out and it fires. So coming to a stop sign l hold the clutch in early, maybe in 3rd or even 4th gear and coast to a stop holding the revs up around 4k then lots of clutch slip with it popping and farting to get underway. Soon as l let the revs drop the fire goes out.
That does sound like vacuum pipes or the MAP sensor that they run too, about a certain amount of revs/throttle the ECU just goes off the TPS to calculate the airflow, hence it only dies at low revs.
The MAP is the sensor between the frame tubes under the tank, if you unplug it the bike with run with the FI light lit. Worth a try though to see if it behaves.
I believe it's also the same part as the ambient air pressure sensor hung on the RH side of the airbox, so you could try swapping them to see if the fault changes too.
I had the exact same fault a couple of years ago and that's what I did to cure it. IAP sensor (under tank) is the same part as the AP sensor (side of airbox) and interchangeable. Got a spare sensor from a forum member which cured the fault.
Thanks guys, will have a play when l have some time to concentrate on what l'm doing.
:cheers:
Hoping l've found a culprit for my issues. The white clip or grommet was not seated correctly in the fuel pump........We shall see.
Yes, it does look like you've nailed it. The HP filter appears to be ½ off it's mount, letting all the pressure out - on occasion. Good detective work Col.
Top marks, well found. Some stainless wire required.
160km ride to visit dad today. Didn't miss a beat. Because l have always said the issue cheered up after opening the fuel cap until recently l'm hoping it was the ball bearing getting stuck over the breather hole in the fuel cap. Have to say l may over do the WD40 possibly making things a bit gummy.
Anyway l very much enjoyed the ride, lots of bikes out today and lovely to have a sweet running bike. Fingers crossed thats been the issue.
Fingers crossed Col.
Set off for Auckland on Wednesday arvo, rode 200+kms, just go to run down the motorway off ramp and hello the bike decides its going to sulk and run like crap. Get to a friends place. Bridge my new clutch switch, no change, bridge the side stand switch.....pop bang fart no change !!. Start the bike in the morning, seems to run not bad.
Got to a central Auckland Suzuki dealer and their very helpful workshop manager checks the fuel pump pressure,all good, plugs his scan tool in and find no faults. Said the throttle bodies could use balancing but that its not the cause of my problem.
So now I might try and contact a psychic and see if they have any ideas :furious: :furious:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Friday, 11 December 2020, 08:53 AM
Set off for Auckland on Wednesday arvo, rode 200+kms, just go to run down the motorway off ramp and hello the bike decides its going to sulk and run like crap. Get to a friends place. Bridge my new clutch switch, no change, bridge the side stand switch.....pop bang fart no change !!. Start the bike in the morning, seems to run not bad.
Got to a central Auckland Suzuki dealer and their very helpful workshop manager checks the fuel pump pressure,all good, plugs his scan tool in and find no faults. Said the throttle bodies could use balancing but that its not the cause of my problem.
So now I might try and contact a psychic and see if they have any ideas :furious: :furious:
Checked the pressure regulator clip Colin? https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1610.0
I'd also try adding an extra earth https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=4828.0
Have a cable tie on something in there already Dave. This niggle started 5 years ago but only recently has it become more of an issue, before i seemed to be able to open the fuel cap and it would go away.
Have decided the problem is triggered when the throttle gets closed........ SOMETIMES :whatever:
Did 240kms going home and it didn't miss a beat.
Coils power supply & earth?
You might have to invest in a $10 switch & plug it into the dealer mode socket, then next time it plays up, flick the switch before you turn it off & see if there's a code come up while it's doing it.
https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=744.0
Col, has it ever flashed a code?
Never had F1 come up, never flashed a code and no codes stored either.
When its starts playing up l reckon its when l am slowing down, coasting and changing down gears, like to a stop or give way. Then it carries on doing it till l park it. Next morning l fire it up ride 250 kms home with 4 stops and it doesn't miss a beat.
I've never said l'm going to sell it or even sworn at it. But it has become IT and no longer Her until it stops having sulky mood swings.
You mentioned only when on a closed throttle, could be worn bushes in the throttle butterflies that are letting false air in. Check for play in the shafts ?
Or, perhaps temperature related, as you mentioned coasting to a stop, im thinking faulty IAP sensor, mis reporting air pressure so then the ecu gets confused.
Without codes its a bit difficult
There are figures in the workshop manual to test the temp & pressure sensors. I need to go through mine at some point to try & find why it's so thirsty & has black plugs too.
Thanks for your suggestions guys. Don't think its a wear issue as it runs fine then as fast as you can click your fingers it runs like shite and just as fast the rider has a sense of humour failure.
Think l will have to bite the bullet and put it on the dyno so it can be under load and see if it does it when you shut the throttle while hooked up to the diagnostics.
Its a bit of a bugger because the wife and l have been making plans for a trip to the South Island in the New year. So until l find its problem thats on hold.
Agreed, but think how much better the trip will be with the bike properly sorted.
A motorcycle tour of the NZ south island is on my bucket list, ive done a 10dayer in a campervan, but two up on a bike would be a whole other experience.
Been reading this whole thread again, I spotted you said the pairs are blocked off, just wondering if it has something to do with that? Maybe rip it all out & check that sensor at the same time. Be also a good opportunity to check all those small hoses for fit & cracks.
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Saturday, 12 December 2020, 10:55 AM
Agreed, but think how much better the trip will be with the bike properly sorted.
A motorcycle tour of the NZ south island is on my bucket list, ive done a 10dayer in a campervan, but two up on a bike would be a whole other experience.
Wife and I did a month on the bike in the South Island in 2015 coolest holiday ever :onya:
Quote from: KiwiCol on Saturday, 12 December 2020, 12:05 PM
Been reading this whole thread again, I spotted you said the pairs are blocked off, just wondering if it has something to do with that? Maybe rip it all out & check that sensor at the same time. Be also a good opportunity to check all those small hoses for fit & cracks.
Did ask some questions around having the pairs blanked off. Col the first time this issue happened was at Tekapo in 2015, thought i was low on gas, opened the fuel cap filled up, problem gone. Never gave it a thought that it was actually a problem. Pairs were still intact then too.
I can send you the ecu from my black to try if ya like, just give me a yell & will arrange it.
There couldn't possibly be anything, like a flap of sheepskin, fouling the air intake at times? It's doing my head in & it's not even my bike! I really want this solved, n no doubt you do too.
Hi Kiwifruit, have you checked that the fuel line under the tank isn't being pinched and that the breather hose from the tank that runs down behind the engine is not blocked? This could be causing a vapour lock issue in the tank causing rough running.
Thank you for that offer Col l may well take you up on it. Have spoken with a couple of blokes involved in the racing world, they say put it on the dyno and try to get it to replicate the problem while the diagnostics are attached to it. I think it could well work as you can run the engine hard, snap the throttle closed and let the revs fall right down at a road speed. That is unlikely to happen before Xmas as the race season is now in full swing.
Eric, thank you for your thoughts. Tank breathing was my first thing to check as it seemed to fix itself when l opened the tank cap. That has changed now and does not work. Lots of things happen when you stop and restart the bike. I'm thinking it was coincidence that when l opened the cap it fixed it. To me the tank never had a vacuum in it. It is my belief that the tank breathes through the camp via a ball bearing that rattles on a seat over the breather hole. Think the hose running down the back of the engine is a drain hose should you overfill it.
So gentlemen the quest continues.