GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => Engine & Gearbox => Topic started by: insane1400 on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 08:11 PM

Title: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 08:11 PM
Hello everyone,
I am in the process of stripping my bike to repaint the frame.

Does anyone have an "at home with no hoist" way of removing the engine from the frame? I have a trolley jack, scissor jack, bottle jack and the normal tools.  Also I DONT have any large strong friends that could help.

thanks
Andrew
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Mick_J on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 08:24 PM
Check out froudys post on doing the same thing.  If I find it I will put a link up.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: GSXKING on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 08:24 PM
Tip it on it's side and unbolt frame pice lift frame off pretty easy peasy  :stir: :stir: :stir:
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Mick_J on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 08:35 PM
Have a look at this to give you an idea of what's required.

https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=558.0
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: northern on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 09:38 PM
Quote from: GSXKING on Wednesday, 03 June  2020, 08:24 PM
Tip it on it's side and unbolt frame pice lift frame off pretty easy peasy  :stir: :stir: :stir:

Agreed. Have done engine out twice, while bike was on wheels. I was using manual palette truck, and it was not east. Problem is, you need to lift and rotate engine, while installing it back.

If you would strip frame compleatly, it would be easier to place engine on a side, and rotate frame around engine, to find right position.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 09:58 PM
it would be easier to place engine on a side, and rotate frame around engine, to find right position.

the problem with this is that my frame will be freshly painted.

Im thinking to make a jig that picks up the front two mounts, put a jack and packers or whatever is required at the rear and then take the frame out and leave the engine exactly where it is resting now. Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: KiwiCol on Thursday, 04 June 2020, 03:15 AM
Mount a block (of block n tackle) to garage ceiling beams / joists, use this to rig 2:1 or 3:1 (or more) pulley system to help with the lift.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Friday, 05 June 2020, 07:04 PM
This is what I came up with and it worked really well. The engine sat rock solid. The biggest problem I has was that mutha fu$$er airbox....(it wont be going back on) Two ratchet straps and maybe 20 minutes later..
I have only had the bike about 3 months and honestly I have been very lazy checking it out, when it came to take the chain off I found the front sprocket was loose in every direction, I will remove it tomorrow and see what it looks like.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Snapey on Friday, 05 June 2020, 07:45 PM
Your jig looks good Andrew ... well thought out. What drama's did you have with the airbox? Apparently they're a bastard to tune without one. If you decide to keep it then remember that it goes in the frame before the engine.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Friday, 05 June 2020, 09:37 PM
 What drama's did you have with the airbox?  Hey Snapey good to hear from you. Why would removing the airbox make it hard to tune?
  The drama was that the airbox had to stay in the frame, just heaps less room than there could be if suzuki made it removable, or even if they didnt have the hump in the top of it.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Del on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 07:08 AM
@insane1400  - the jig is nice fella - could you do me a favour if you can and take some measurements

Im about to remove the engine from mine and this would be well handy

Many thanks

Del
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Snapey on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 07:37 AM
With sensors & a wiring loom in the way getting the airbox to slide back far enough for FI removal is difficult but not so bad with my sheet metal trick. Bloody poor design but we're stuck with it. Once the injectors are out then tie the airbox back with an occy strap & it's out of the way for engine removal.

Tuning the bike without the airbox is difficult is why I said "apparently" as I'm going on what I've read. I bought a GPZ1100 many years ago that was fitted with pod filters and even one of the best engine tuners in Sydney had no success getting it right. Maybe ask the question in the fuelling section where someone will give you the answer because I don't know.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 10:45 AM
Using pod filters not an airbox gives a lot shorter intake track, that means the airflow in the throttle bodies is more turbulent. Hence they are harder to tune, as they'll tend to run rough & have flat spots.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: grog on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 05:19 PM
Hooli, i trust and believe what you say. Just interested as to how so many car motors, older bikes run fine without air box to calm the air intake.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: KiwiCol on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 05:50 PM
maybe ok for carbs & not so much for fuel injection?  just a guess, I know nothing, as mrs Col will gladly confirm.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 08:23 PM
Quote from: grog on Saturday, 06 June  2020, 05:19 PM
Hooli, i trust and believe what you say. Just interested as to how so many car motors, older bikes run fine without air box to calm the air intake.

I know what you mean, I was surprised when I heard on the old ORG how much hassle people had getting 14s to run ok without the airbox.

My guess is it's because we've got secondary throttles that'll add further turbulence to the intake flow, being after the injectors they might add just enough extra turbulence than the air stalls under the injector & the fuel doesn't atomise into the intake charge properly.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 10:18 PM
Quote from: Snapey on Saturday, 06 June  2020, 07:37 AM
With sensors & a wiring loom in the way getting the airbox to slide back far enough for FI removal is difficult but not so bad with my sheet metal trick. Bloody poor design but we're stuck with it. Once the injectors are out then tie the airbox back with an occy strap & it's out of the way for engine removal.

Tuning the bike without the airbox is difficult is why I said "apparently" as I'm going on what I've read. I bought a GPZ1100 many years ago that was fitted with pod filters and even one of the best engine tuners in Sydney had no success getting it right. Maybe ask the question in the fuelling section where someone will give you the answer because I don't know.

Obviously because I didnt remove the FI I made it a lot harder for myself, I didnt think to remove it.

As for the airbox I have always wanted the pod filters and I am only going by what I read on the "install pod filter download" where someone said dyno tuning wasnt even needed because of how little difference they made, however Snapey you are one guy I would listen to.

I also found out why my front sprocket was loose.... the small bolt with the internal hex was tight, but the big nut I undid with a socket in my hand when I went to check the size... thats supposed to be done to 115Nm isnt it?

one funny thing I noticed about this bike, its a 2001 with about 65K on it, the tyres on the bike were made 4613... 46 week 2013 and still have plenty left...( they will be going soon)
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Saturday, 06 June 2020, 10:27 PM
My front sprocket has come loose like that a few times, hence I thread lock the big nut when I do a chain & sprocket change these days. Plus if I ever have that side cover off, I prod the sprocket with my finger to see if it wobbles.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: KiwiCol on Sunday, 07 June 2020, 01:57 PM
with that front sprocket nut, after I've tightened it, I mark it with felt pen where it aligns to, that way I can see if there's any movement in it, any time I take the cover off.  similar to match marking
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Sunday, 07 June 2020, 06:50 PM
Wouldn't work for me, it'd need to be clean  :lol:
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: froudy on Sunday, 07 June 2020, 11:34 PM
Make sure that when you start the rebuild you do this order..
1. Loom in frame.
2. Airbox in frame.
3. Engine in.

Don't do what I did and fit airbox, throttle bodies, engine because you can't get the loom in afterwards :onya:
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Sunday, 07 June 2020, 11:42 PM
I know an utterly crap garage that did that mistake with the loom, then misrouted it to bodge it. Took me bloody ages to sort out as part of redoing all of their work to make that bike safe for an ex.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: insane1400 on Thursday, 02 July 2020, 08:21 PM
@Del hey mate I did up a sketch of the engine stand thing. If you have any questions please ask.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: froudy on Thursday, 02 July 2020, 09:16 PM
Lie frame on its side on suitable padding and unbolt engine from frame..Lift frame off engine.
Motor put into stand to work on it. Refiitting is the same procedure, but don't forget to fit loom and airbox before you refit engine into the frame.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Hooli on Thursday, 02 July 2020, 09:43 PM
I like the engine stand, home made I presume?
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: froudy on Friday, 03 July 2020, 12:24 AM
Quote from: Hooli on Thursday, 02 July  2020, 09:43 PM
I like the engine stand, home made I presume?

Yes. A guy on oldskool suzuki used to make them. It's for a Bandit engine, but the GSX1400 lump fits as well.
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Wilson on Saturday, 04 July 2020, 06:13 AM
I used a aluminium ladder, some lifting slings, a chain hoist to lift it on to a small scissors lift.
Then changed the position of the slings to support the engine while I slid it into the correct position. 
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: KiwiCol on Saturday, 04 July 2020, 07:30 AM
Nice,   your garage has a lot of windows -  :whistling:
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Mick_J on Saturday, 04 July 2020, 06:30 PM
That's because it the conservatory.  :whistling:
Title: Re: engine removal
Post by: Wilson on Saturday, 04 July 2020, 08:26 PM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Saturday, 04 July  2020, 07:30 AM
Nice,   your garage has a lot of windows -  :whistling:

Living in the dark north of Europe You'll need all the light you can get in the winter time :-D

Didn't use my conservatory anyway, so why not make it a dedicated motorcycle workshop. Warm in the winter and easy acces from the house!
The workshop in the garage can then be used for the more dirty work.