First of all thanks for the add.
Anybody had a problem with overheating?
My FI light comes on in hot weather in traffic.
I know the oil temp switch that controls the fan is faulty so fan doesn't come on but read that it only comes on in extreme hot conditions anyway.
Is there a thermostat in the oil system that allows oil to flow round the radiator like a liquid cooled engine?
I've read that a problem with the bikes is getting them up to running temperature.
Thanks in advance.
Nope not heard of them overheating .
We've had ours filtering in long traffic jams in Europe with the bikes fully loaded with luggage in temperatures of mid 40°c without any problems .
Have you checked for fault codes to see if there is a problem somewhere on the bike .
No. As of yet I can't find the connector to see any fault codes.
You say above, "hot weather" how hot are we talking about? How fast are you going when the light comes on?
The fan can (if all systems working right) come on if you leave it idling in your garage for too long. That isn't caused by high ambient temperatures, that's caused by lack of air flow over the cooler. Is your cooler in good nick? Does the air have free passage through the fins?
Now, if you're riding along about 30mph or more on a warmish day and you get the F1 light come up, I'd very much doubt it's because of high oil temp, unless the level is waaaay down.
What model 14? Have you changed the headers but not had the fuelling adjusted. Later K5 onwards models run very lean and if you fit an Akra or any other exhaust with larger internal headers can overheat due to poor (read weak) fuelling if that hasn't been adjusted with a PCIII or PC-V.
Even if that's not the case, it sounds like it could be a case of your 14 running too weak a mixture - what colour are the plugs?
You mentioned "i know the oil temperature switch that controls the fan is faulty".
Why don't you replace that first.
Quote from: AndyPillatt8841 on Saturday, 30 May 2020, 10:51 PM
First of all thanks for the add.
Anybody had a problem with overheating?
My FI light comes on in hot weather in traffic.
I know the oil temp switch that controls the fan is faulty so fan doesn't come on but read that it only comes on in extreme hot conditions anyway.
Is there a thermostat in the oil system that allows oil to flow round the radiator like a liquid cooled engine?
I've read that a problem with the bikes is getting them up to running temperature.
Thanks in advance.
I re-read the initial question, I think you have your answer there, as Irish said, "why not replace the switch first" I think your F1 light is coming on
because it can't turn on the fan when it wants to.Fit a new switch & I reckon all will be well.
Easiest and cheapest thing to do is to get into dealer mode and leave it there while driving. Then, when the FI light comes on, note the fault code.
The fan switch does not, by design, communicate with the ECU. I.e, it does not trigger a fault code when it malfunctions. Fan switch and fan can be tested (see manual page 5-9, 5-10).
Correct Andre.
The F1 light maybe be turned on by the Engine Oil Temperature Switch which is connected to the ECM.
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 31 May 2020, 07:46 AM
What model 14? Have you changed the headers but not had the fuelling adjusted. Later K5 onwards models run very lean and if you fit an Akra or any other exhaust with larger internal headers can overheat due to poor (read weak) fuelling if that hasn't been adjusted with a PCIII or PC-V.
Even if that's not the case, it sounds like it could be a case of your 14 running too weak a mixture - what colour are the plugs?
It's a k2. I'll check plug colour tomorrow.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 01 June 2020, 03:08 AM
Correct Andre.
The F1 light maybe be turned on by the Engine Oil Temperature Switch which is connected to the ECM.
I doubt that does it either tbh.
I ran without a working fan for two years, including getting stuck in Switzerland at 37c & my bike got that hot in town that I'm sure I felt it start to nip up. No lights came on at any point.
Thanks for replies guys. Light only comes on going slowly sub 50 mph in 20 degrees heat. normally goes out when going faster making me think its temperature issue.
Fans really small and wouldn't do much tbf but I'll try and bypass the switch and have fan on a separate switch see if that works. Don't think its connected to ecm but could be wrong.
Radiators also a hel one which is meant to be better .
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 01 June 2020, 06:30 AM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 01 June 2020, 03:08 AM
Correct Andre.
The F1 light maybe be turned on by the Engine Oil Temperature Switch which is connected to the ECM.
I doubt that does it either tbh.
I ran without a working fan for two years, including getting stuck in Switzerland at 37c & my bike got that hot in town that I'm sure I felt it start to nip up. No lights came on at any point.
Seems pointless having the Oil temperature switch (not fan switch) going to ECM to set off a system fault code and not turning on the F1 light to warn of potential problem.
Anyway there have been mods done but from what is said above it seems the oil is getting hot.
Not sure if my fan has ever come on. Have ridden some very hot days, traffic included. Never seen above 85 degrees on temp gauge which is fairly accurate to what laser thermometer reads. Love that air/oil cooled set up.
@grog According to manual fan should turn on at 120 degree C and turn off again at 108 degree C.
I just realised I should have said oil temperature sensor goes to ECM.
QuoteLight only comes on going slowly sub 50 mph in 20 degrees heat
Certainly not conditions that would cause the engine to overheat. If it does there is a long list of possible causes. Without more info ...
And this info is cheap and easy to obtain! On a K2 ONE office clip gives you the error code! Get that done first!!!
About 15 GBP gets you a screw in oil temp thermometer. Add 15-20 °C to what you see on the thermometer and you have the temp that the fan temperature switch detects. The Suzuki engineers determined that at 120 °C the fan should kick in. So anything below 121 °C at the fan temp switch can't be considered overheating.
Many of the sensors (and there associate wire and connectors - if damaged) can malfunction during normal operating temperatures (could consider normal op-temps as heat). Had that happen on the Gear Position sensor. After it had soaked up enough heat from the engine it caused an error code.
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 01 June 2020, 05:32 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 01 June 2020, 06:30 AM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Monday, 01 June 2020, 03:08 AM
Correct Andre.
The F1 light maybe be turned on by the Engine Oil Temperature Switch which is connected to the ECM.
I doubt that does it either tbh.
I ran without a working fan for two years, including getting stuck in Switzerland at 37c & my bike got that hot in town that I'm sure I felt it start to nip up. No lights came on at any point.
Seems pointless having the Oil temperature switch (not fan switch) going to ECM to set off a system fault code and not turning on the F1 light to warn of potential problem.
As I understand it the oil temp is used to control the fueling. Richer when cold (like the choke in the old days) & richer again if it gets too hot to help control the temps.
Exactly my point so if it all goes arse up say 120+ for 1 minute then the F1 light may come on, it all depends on how it is programmed, something I do in industrial process control.
And note the oil/fan switch and oil temp sensor have different ranges but then they are in different positions.
This is this guy's first post so my questions:
1. Have you just purchased the bike.
2. If not was the HEL radiator on it or has this problem occurred after it being installed.
Instead of going through a load of diagnostics that have no relevance.
@Irish in Oz Putting it into dealer mode to get the error code is of high diagnostic relevance and easier than eating a piece of pie :coffeescreen:
And if it has more than one error code!
I've had the bike a couple of years. Hel rad was already on it. Was all ok until this season. I need to put it in dealer mode but still not found the socket.
It is a white plug which is supposed to have a black dust cap on it. Located to the left of the battery and ECU. Have to take the little storage tray out.
Quote from: grog on Monday, 01 June 2020, 07:24 PM
Not sure if my fan has ever come on. Have ridden some very hot days, traffic included. Never seen above 85 degrees on temp gauge which is fairly accurate to what laser thermometer reads. Love that air/oil cooled set up.
I have no fan whatso ever. Even riding in 46 degree days, my fan has never come on :facepalm:
Well it wouldn't, would it? You haven't got one :rofl2:
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 02 June 2020, 04:35 AM
Exactly my point so if it all goes arse up say 120+ for 1 minute then the F1 light may come on, it all depends on how it is programmed, something I do in industrial process control.
And note the oil/fan switch and oil temp sensor have different ranges but then they are in different positions.
I do get your point. It's just I know from experience that mine was well over 'fan temp' for 10-15mins while I managed to get out whatever city I was in, with no working fan & it didn't show a FI light.
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 03 June 2020, 05:54 AM
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Tuesday, 02 June 2020, 04:35 AM
Exactly my point so if it all goes arse up say 120+ for 1 minute then the F1 light may come on, it all depends on how it is programmed, something I do in industrial process control.
And note the oil/fan switch and oil temp sensor have different ranges but then they are in different positions.
I do get your point. It's just I know from experience that mine was well over 'fan temp' for 10-15mins while I managed to get out whatever city I was in, with no working fan & it didn't show a FI light.
Maybe your fan AND F1 light is broken :stir:
The F1 System chart attached shows the sensor voltage range.
If a sensor goes open circuit (below the shown voltage) or goes short circuit (above the shown voltage) the F1 light comes on and the error will be be logged for dealer mode and the light will stay ON.
If the sensor isn't damaged and goes momentarily out of range (for example over temp) the F1 light should come ON and if returns within range I see no reason why it shouldn't turn OFF, the malfunction should still be logged.
It gets pretty hot in and around Brisbane in summer and I've never heard the fan come on either. It's so small I can't imagine it would do much if anything at all. Just my 2 cents worth. :frustrated:
Considering the oil temps quoted earlier (on at 120c, off at 108c I think) you'd be surprised how quick it pulls the oil temp down. I've heard them come on a few times when doing stuff on bikes in the garage like balancing throttles back when it took me ages as I wasn't very good at it.
With a fan it's not always the size in diameter there is also speed and pitch of blades.
So finally found the dealer mode connector. Someone has had the undertray off and it was tucked underneath it.
Been for a run to get code. Took ages because weathers cooler.
It came back c11 cam position sensor.
Now to find out if faulty sensor is causing overheating or overheating is affecting sensor.
I'd go with the latter, they are simple hall effect sensors & can fail.
When the ECU decides that is faulty it'll use the crank sensor to decide when to spark, fire injectors etc, which isn't as accurate but good enough for the engine to run.
Worth checking the connectors for it too, along with the big grey/white one under the LH side cover as everything from the engine runs through that to the ECU. Oh & pop the ECU out, the drain hole can block so it's sitting in water, which never helps.
Hooli
Am I right in thinking latter is the second of the two "overheating is affecting sensor"
Obviously my fervent prayers of never hearing "overheating" again in this thread have not been answered. :whatever:
Then "overheating" should be referred too as "running hot".
Very hot if it is actually over heating :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir: :stir: :boogie:
"running hotter than I'd like"? or "a bit warm" . . .
Or Andre might like the term "under cooling"?
Quote from: Irish in Oz on Friday, 05 June 2020, 09:02 AM
Hooli
Am I right in thinking latter is the second of the two "overheating is affecting sensor"
Well, it's operating above it's current safe working temperature limit. That should keep Andre happy...
If the sensor works how I think it does, then it's a small electromagnet. As the cam turns an oblong block on the cam enters the sensor's magnetic field, this causes the sensor's magnetic field to change shape, that in turn creates a small current in the other coil inside the sensor & that produces a voltage in the sensor lead. Being such small things it wouldn't take much to get a short or something when hot as the insulation can't be thick.
Just an update. Changed the Cam Sensor which wasn't cheap at just over £100.
That sorted it all out so faulty sensor was affecting fueling and causing overheating.