HI Guys, need advise.
Sometimes after a long or short run, when I go to start the bike, the starter spins or makes a noise like its trying to start. Like its trying to turn the engine over but doesn't.
The bike is an 07 plate, has 21,400 on the clock and I have a new battery fitted.
18 months ago I tightened the clutch bolt and used good old Locktite, this is still solid.
I contacted my mate who owns a bike shop and he has suggested it could be the bearings on the starter clutch and recommends replacing it. The cost of the starter clutch set, as it comes in 3 parts, is £336.
As I said, its now and again this problem rears its head, bit embarrassing sometimes when people are admiring the bike and it makes that strange trying to start noise and you ask for a bump start. I'm a bit reluctant to take his advise as the bike has only done just over 21,000 miles. Do I need to check the Starter Solenoid or is there anything I need to check/do. The bike will bump start no problem.
Any advise would be appreciated,
Hi , phild, just a quick note as your new here it's advisable to introduce yourself before posting as for your starter problems sounds like it's buggered, I'm sure someone on here will have more informative knowledge than I do. Cheers.
My guess is the same as your mate's. The starter clutch set can be had a lot cheaper here (for 208€ + 18€ flat rate S+H to UK): https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/suzuki-spare-parts?itemid=1260042811000 (https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/suzuki-spare-parts?itemid=1260042811000)
If you are lucky it's the starter idle gear which can be had by itself for 42€: https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/suzuki-spare-parts?itemid=1261142F00000 (https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/suzuki-spare-parts?itemid=1261142F00000)
Sure there are other places to be googled that offer the parts for substantially less than Robinsons.
I would take the cover off and take a look. Haven't heard much about problems with the starter clutch on the 14. Here is a post where the large starter ring had some stripped teeth: https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1976.msg22611#msg22611 (https://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=1976.msg22611#msg22611) In Reply #2 you find what you need to get the flywheel off (not needed if it's only the idle gear).
As above, I'd pop the LH side cover off & take a look. No point ordering bits until you know what you need.
Could be the flywheel bolt loose and spinning on crankshaft, a common fault in early Suzuki's.
As said head to the bat and say hello .
As for your problem some k5 had problems with the alternator bolt coming lose
Best way to fix is a replacement bolt (they do have to be tightened to a very high torque )
I'd also check the earth's from the engine to the frame and frame to the battery check all is clean and making a good contact as this could also be a reason for your problem .
Good luck .
Thanks for the info guys, appreciated and for where I can get a starter clutch if needed.
Cheers
PhilD :clapping: :cheers:
Do have the LH cover off and check for a complete set of teeth both on the starter and on the flywheel - not unknown in some (rare instances) for teeth to break off if you try to start the engine too soon after stalling (as the starter cogs try to engage with a spinning flywheel.
If it's not that and the flywheel bolt is loose, you will need a new bolt rather than just tightening the existing one, as they are a one-time use bolt and 'stretch' when torque'd up initially
Everything has been checked as per all of your instructions, I have ordered the starter clutch set and the generator one time use bolt from the link for KFM web shop.
I would like to say thanks for all of your input.
I will let you know how the bike is once its all completed. My mate who owns the bike shop will be fitting it as he has all of the pullers and torque wrenches etc.
Hopefully I wont have to wait too long for the parts from Germany.
It's a taper fit it usually come away with shock on the loosened bolt (if it's not already loose).
HI Guys
Update on the starter clutch. It has arrived from Germany and I ordered the retaining bolt. However, my mate who owns the bike shop contacted me today and advised everything came off too easily in his opinion when using the clutch pulley. He thought nothing of it but when he put it all back together, he said the bolt wouldn't torque up to 160, it tightened the clutch up to the crank which he wouldn't do as it could cause issues.
I have been advised to buy a new rotor, if this doesn't fix the issue, I might need another engine as stripping the engine down and putting in a new crank will be costly.
So not a happy bunny at the moment. This is the only issue I have had with the bike at the moment in 12 years. Will keep you all updated :angry: :angry: :angry:
Quote from: PhilD on Tuesday, 19 May 2020, 11:32 PM
HI Guys
Update on the starter clutch. It has arrived from Germany and I ordered the retaining bolt. However, my mate who owns the bike shop contacted me today and advised everything came off too easily in his opinion when using the clutch pulley. He thought nothing of it but when he put it all back together, he said the bolt wouldn't torque up to 160, it tightened the clutch up to the crank which he wouldn't do as it could cause issues.
I have been advised to buy a new rotor, if this doesn't fix the issue, I might need another engine as stripping the engine down and putting in a new crank will be costly.
So not a happy bunny at the moment. This is the only issue I have had with the bike at the moment in 12 years. Will keep you all updated :angry: :angry: :angry:
Thats a bummer but I guess 12 years with no problems is good :)
Bad (expensive) news.
The thread on the old bolt and rotor look damaged?
Worst case scenario here is the crank end will have to be re-threaded to clean up.. or threaded up, which would mean a bolt size up...BUT the you'll have to find a high tension treated bolt.
I can personally only see 3 poss outcomes on why the starter is just spinning,
(i) Teeth on either idler or main clutch add-on wheel missing
(ii) Flywheel bolt come loose and flywheel set has moved forward
(iii) Clutch damaged so doesn't lock in one direction and spins both ways
Quote from: PhilD on Tuesday, 19 May 2020, 11:32 PM
HI Guys
Update on the starter clutch. It has arrived from Germany and I ordered the retaining bolt. However, my mate who owns the bike shop contacted me today and advised everything came off too easily in his opinion when using the clutch pulley. He thought nothing of it but when he put it all back together, he said the bolt wouldn't torque up to 160, it tightened the clutch up to the crank which he wouldn't do as it could cause issues.
I have been advised to buy a new rotor, if this doesn't fix the issue, I might need another engine as stripping the engine down and putting in a new crank will be costly.
So not a happy bunny at the moment. This is the only issue I have had with the bike at the moment in 12 years. Will keep you all updated :angry: :angry: :angry:
This bit Doesn't make sense to me.. The only way the bolt wouldn't torque up to settings is if the bolt+flywheel surface+crankshaft end were all in contact, which would mean that the tapered end has worn away... you can't have worn the taper down..could you?...have you?
The only way out of that headache would be to get a shim made to slip over the tapered end, but assuming the wear is small, the shim would have to be thin as fook... or have two split shims.... Jeez that'd be a first lol
After the bolt comes loose the rotor and shaft lock intermittently so the the engine starts OK, when it gets to the stage of slipping frequently the rotor and crank taper can become scoured and you never get full grip even when fully torqued, its like a morse taper on a drill.
If the taper is worn, would you try Loctite 660 instead of a new crank?
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 20 May 2020, 06:43 PM
If the taper is worn, would you try Loctite 660 instead of a new crank?
It could be worth a try Grog but both tapers would have to be cleared of any high spots.
Irish, emery or linishing tape.Be appropriate you think.
I have just remembered about a process I got done on a crankshaft out of a two stroke outboard, I had a problem with crankshaft seal and couldn't get a speedi sleeve in that size. So I got it metal sprayed and it worked. Just google Metal Spraying.
Definitely worth a shot, they will oversize it using metal spray, then remachine it down to spec. If you go down this route, rebalancing the crank and relinishing the journals would be an idea.
Thanks for all of your input guys.
Thankfully we didn't have to go down any of the above routes. I received the new rotor on Friday and everything was double checked including threads. The new rotor and starter clutch were fitted and everything tightened up as it was meant too.
It turns out the old rotor was badly worn. We can only assume when the original bolt backed off the rotor was moving and this is what has caused all the issues.
Anyway, it might me, but the bike sounds much better starting.
Again, thanks for all of your input and stay safe out there.
PhilD :cheers: :grin:
Glad you got it sorted Phil, now don't waste the good weather, get out and burn some petrol.