Just won it on Ebay :devil:
Or actually last night... At 02.00u. This must be my best beer infused late night buy in years :boogie:
It is just the piston set, with rings etc.
Will slowly start saving for the rest of the needed parts. I might pick some brains for tech info :cheers: probably mostly maverick and kja :drool:
Hope to have all the parts with 2 years. So this will be a slow progress and project.
This is on its way atm
1700, wow, what other bits will you need now?
At minimum sleeves and a bored cylinder block, bigger cams, a ported head,
Possably rods and bigger injectors but awaiting that answer from the seller.
Ohh and patience :whistling:
Well done mate, its slow progress though as you are at the mercy of others. I'm a bit further on but still stuck at the moment. If I can help with any thing let me know. What make pstons are they?
Quote from: kja on Saturday, 18 February 2017, 08:42 PM
Well done mate, its slow progress though as you are at the mercy of others. I'm a bit further on but still stuck at the moment. If I can help with any thing let me know. What make pstons are they?
I believe they are "ross".
It's the kit from borisz. :boogie2:
Thanks for the offer btw :onya:
Boris from Russia is sellinf now lot of parts from his GSX1700. Head, bore with pistons etc....
Quote from: Blubber on Saturday, 18 February 2017, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the offer btw :onya:
Did you buy the whole kit? or just the pistons?
He sold most of the parts already. Liners, block, cams all gone to someone who is planning a turbo.
He only has the head left but that it out of reach for me Atm.
Quote from: kja on Saturday, 18 February 2017, 10:09 PM
Quote from: Blubber on Saturday, 18 February 2017, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the offer btw :onya:
Did you buy the whole kit? or just the pistons?
So just the pistons.
I plan on buying a extra engine and take it from there.
Black Adder who was on the old site (is it right to call it that??) has an FB page........
https://www.facebook.com/Black-Adder-111656815653974/?fref=ts
Need to investigate the parts I need.
He might be of help. :worshippy:
I'm currently waiting on a set of Carillo's, 6-8 weeks lead time as they are special order. I'm using 38mm throttle bodies from a gsxr600, which are up at Rog Uppertons to be matched to the head, apparently 38mm Amal carb rubbers should make it easier, the oem inlet stubs have to be replaced though, machined off first then new ones welded in situ. I've got Yoshi cams, Rog reckons cooling maybe an issue so a separate head cooler may have to be fitted, not too concerned about this as it was a popular mod on tuned/raced gsxr11's. I'm also looking to get the pistons/rods/crank balanced as I'm doing away with the balancer shaft.
I just made an offer on Boris' ported head too :devil: OOPS
No way i get get that amount of work done the head for that kind of money.
I don't think this one will sneak past the front door without some comment of the wife.
Only time will tell if I am lucky enough to own it. :mwink:
:wife: :wife: :wife:
Is there something you want to tell me? :rofl2:
nope that'll be your mrs when your sneaking in the new parts :wife: :smiley sign0181:
Was :sarcasm:
She is used to seeing boxes with my name on it. Tires, wheels, gsx1400 tank and tail, complete akravopic.. all through the front door.
That said... this time i can't get away with my standard "30 GBP" reply :rolleyes:
thats what i ment
not the parts but the cost of them :popcorn:
:facepalm:
"but i saved all my barber money :whistling:"
:doh:
:cheers:
Thats a lot lot lot of barber money
I have been bold for 20 years :imrgreen:
I don't know about your wife but... I happened to have married one who can occasionally spent 6 hours at the Barber Shop... Drinking thee and wine while being treated by her favorite hairdresser. Luckily that her friend and she gets a discount. Otherwise a visit like that would cost 300 euro's
yes a good way to save then
i am a bit fu&^%k when it come to hiding the cash for the bike she a lawyer lol so she know all the loop holes little bugger
but on the hair side and nails oh god do they spend the dosh and of cos its the catch up with the girls to show it all and yep wine to
so it all mounts up mate
Ha, mine is a nailartist. She does her own nails.
Safes a lot :smoke:
Man up, take charge, just tell her it's for the bike, after all, you are in charge. :whistling: :stir:
You are a very brave man mrgt, very brave :whistling:
thank for the support :rofl2:
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 07:47 PM
You are a very brave man mrgt, very brave :whistling:
Women need to know their place ;)
Quote from: mjgt on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 08:33 PM
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 07:47 PM
You are a very brave man mrgt, very brave :whistling:
Women need to know their place ;)
true.. mine does not enter the mancave :smitten:
It was a proper job on that cylinder head of his, I cant remember what cams he was running though, I'm fairly certain they were one off's too not Yoshi's
Quote from: mjgt on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 08:33 PM
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 22 February 2017, 07:47 PM
You are a very brave man mrgt, very brave :whistling:
Women need to know their place ;)
Even braver then than I first thought !!!! :notworthy:
Quote from: kja on Thursday, 23 February 2017, 02:56 AM
It was a proper job on that cylinder head of his, I cant remember what cams he was running though, I'm fairly certain they were one off's too not Yoshi's
He had custom Webcams made :onya:
He invested waaay more that he is selling it for :notworthy:
bravest think is getting the 1700/14 up to top speed on an autobahn.
but it'll so much torque and power
fantastic :hat:
My head already looks like a wobble head at 220KM on the GPS. :rofl2:
Don't think that will get better at even higher speeds. :whistling:
One way is Boris´s way. Bigger engine capacity and so on.
Other way is lower compression ratio with turbo with changeble geometry because of linear pressure rise and so on.
Going the larger capacity route means less shit hanging off the bike - looks cleaner I reckon.
Quote from: V_i_c_i on Friday, 24 February 2017, 10:01 PM
One way is Boris´s way. Bigger engine capacity and so on.
Other way is lower compression ratio with turbo with changeble geometry because of linear pressure rise and so on.
I did considers Dave's compressor kit... timing just wasn't right for me. ( other expenses )
Quote from: Blubber on Friday, 24 February 2017, 11:45 PM
Quote from: V_i_c_i on Friday, 24 February 2017, 10:01 PM
One way is Boris´s way. Bigger engine capacity and so on.
Other way is lower compression ratio with turbo with changeble geometry because of linear pressure rise and so on.
I did considers Dave's compressor kit... timing just wasn't right for me. ( other expenses )
There are big diferences between compressor, standard turbo with not linear presure rising and turbo with variable geometry with linear preasure rising. Last choice is most smooth and linea and friendly for riding. But not gain so brutal power.
Sry for my technical english. Hope is it comprehensibly.
No need to be sorry problem for your English. ( it's not my native language either )
I know there a huge differences between them, but when a bolt on power kit passes... My mind starts working :devil:
Oi, bigbores popping out here and there, I like! Sooo... ...where we at now? And where's all the pics? :D
Quote from: BlackAdder on Friday, 10 March 2017, 05:05 PM
Oi, bigbores popping out here and there, I like! Sooo... ...where we at now? And where's all the pics? :D
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum_test/index.php?topic=313.msg6517#msg6517
Quote from: BlackAdder on Friday, 10 March 2017, 05:05 PM
Oi, bigbores popping out here and there, I like! Sooo... ...where we at now? And where's all the pics? :D
Hey
@BlackAdder - Welcome to the new ORG , nice to see you here ( and maybe even convenient for me ) :notworthy:
Since you asked nicely :
The 1700cc piston kit has been payed for and had landed in my shed,
The ported head with large valves is reserved for me, currently at 60% of the payment :boogie:
Made an offer on the cylinder with bored liners which has been accepted :mwink:
All these parts are used and come from Boris' GSX1700 from Russia - Top bloke , easy to communicate with and do business with :onya:
Working my "hands" off, selling loads of stuff AND prepping to sell a bike :bugga:
This project has snowballed and proceeded waaay quicker than i had planned for :facepalm: (My time frame was supposed to be a 2 year to get the big parts NOT 2 months :tongue: )
I have been into modding bikes incl big bore kits for almost 22 years so I know the price of more horse power :whistling:
From what i understand from Boris, he used stock everything with this kit - except the webcam cams AND a power commander.
Stock crank incl. the balance axle,
Stock studs,
Stock headgasket with enlarged holes,
Stock 14 injectors,
Stock fuel rail,
Stock air filter,
Stock air box,
Its supposed to be a bolt on exercise.
My plan is to source another 14 engine end of this year and bolt this stuff on and run with stock cams .
Yoshimura Stage 1 cams at a later stadium.
The jury is still out on this cam plan because that would mean:
- setting it up 2 times on the dyno and,
- 2 times shimming the valve clearances.
I already have a full akrapovic exhaust system and a working powercommander 5 with autotune installed so no need to source those.
Small update.
The ported and flowed head arrived!
Took me some time to gather the needed funds so there is one part of the delay.
The other contributer was the fact I bought it in the South East corner of Russia. Took a month to get to me in the Netherlands.
Like any postal service there is some damage: 1 fin is damaged.
I took the head to a revamp company: he will not attempt to repair. Welding directly next to the head gasket area is a no go.
He did clean it, trued it and installed the stem seals I supplied
I have ordered a complete gasket kit for the spare 14 engine waiting under the bench.
I need to order a custom head gasket due to the 89mm pistons.
Atm the injectors for this project are being cleaned.
I bought some replacement injectors via Aliexpres to prevent this but....They don't seam right. The ad says flow matched but this surely doesn't mean the spray paterns are also matched.
3 of the Ali injectors have 4 holes in them, 1 has 1 hole in it.
Hope to post pics soon of my cylinders soon :8:
coming together buddy
I'm following with great interest .
on a sideline i got a waterproof case for my samsung s5 from ali express
the 1 that came was for a s6.
if you get stuck i have a complete set of throttle bodies with all parts so git spare everything.
hoping to get my head ported and throttle bodies bored out bigger .
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 25 July 2017, 05:33 AM
coming together buddy
I'm following with great interest .
on a sideline i got a waterproof case for my samsung s5 from ali express
the 1 that came was for a s6.
if you get stuck i have a complete set of throttle bodies with all parts so git spare everything.
hoping to get my head ported and throttle bodies bored out bigger .
Hey Seth, thanks for the offer.
I bought the remains of a project so got most things i think i need.
- Whats your time line?
regarding the bigger throttle bodies... Who will be doing that?
hopefully over the winter or next year .
still looking for someone to bore out and fit bigger butterflies to the throttle bodies and then port the head to match them .
thats the main constraint at the moment.
hopefully will have the bike back on the road this year but been to lazy and just taking the standard one out .
Taking them oem throttlebodies apart so that you can put them together too might be a bit tricky. I destroyed my own set (cant remember exactly why but it had something to do with the butterflys I think...) I also destroyed one set of gsxr throttlebodies ( I might have misplaced some parts during the garage move tho...)
And for the cams - the yoshi stg-1's might be too mild (that was one point what my dyno-dude wondered) so you could save a buck just getting the oem's milled to a bit better form.
I'm running bigger injectors and oem fuel pump, and it runs out of fuel @5500rpm, so you need something else than oem.
And that valve head, I want bigger. No, I NEED bigger to mine :D
Nice!
Both inlet and exhaust valves are 3mm bigger, inlet port and exhaust port are roughly 3mm bigger. All flows are matched
This head is capable of making power up to 12.000rpm.
Boris first had a custom grind Webcams in them. Whilst they were good for top end power, city cruising was not an option anymore.
For driveability the ST-1 was the best op the 2.
http://shop.yoshimura-jp.com/en/product/syousai.php?id=871 (http://shop.yoshimura-jp.com/en/product/syousai.php?id=871)
However...
I have been looking into street regrinds and came across Piper Cams in the UK
http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams/www/product_browse.php?type=&manufacturer=22 (http://www.pipercams.co.uk/pipercams/www/product_browse.php?type=&manufacturer=22)
and this german company:
https://www.oehlins.info/Nockenwellen-umschleifen-Typ-SUZ30/Suzuki-GSX-1400::2643.html (https://www.oehlins.info/Nockenwellen-umschleifen-Typ-SUZ30/Suzuki-GSX-1400::2643.html)
The biggest difference i see is that the duration of the germans cams are bigger with less lift than the Yoshimura ones .
- What do you think?
@BlackAdder Regarding the throttle bodies:
http://www.hafner-racing.at/Datenblatt/Suzuki%20GSX%201400%20HRC/suzuki%20gsx%201400%20hrc.htm (http://www.hafner-racing.at/Datenblatt/Suzuki%20GSX%201400%20HRC/suzuki%20gsx%201400%20hrc.htm)
Looks like they adapted the gsxR1000 2001 (K1) model to their needs to release another 20HP
Google translate might help to read those last websites :happy1:
Those numbers are not telling all. If you look those profiles from pictures, you can see the difference (yoshi vs. german).
I think those German cams are much wilder. (but that picture is not from 14 cams, sorry)
No need to be sorry , you did not build that website ;) i know it's just a example picture they used.
Just noticed the earlier mentioned german company uses the same grind and name as Kent Cams.
I have e-mailed 2 companies: http://www.gw-racing-parts.de/index2.php?view=nocken&HID=25&lan=en (http://www.gw-racing-parts.de/index2.php?view=nocken&HID=25&lan=en)
In the past they did offer a regrind for the GSX1400
I also have asked Kent cams if they still can supply the SUZ30 grind.
http://www.kentcams.com/product-details/880/Camshaft/Camshaft/SUZ30--Street/ (http://www.kentcams.com/product-details/880/Camshaft/Camshaft/SUZ30--Street/)
Curious to see what they can offer.
Keep us posted on what you find out for the cams, I suspect the Yoshis are ok on a standard motor but something else will be neded on a 1700. STILL waiting on my cylinder head coming back, its a year now, not too happy.
Quote from: kja on Saturday, 05 August 2017, 02:48 AM
Keep us posted on what you find out for the cams, I suspect the Yoshis are ok on a standard motor but something else will be neded on a 1700. STILL waiting on my cylinder head coming back, its a year now, not too happy.
WOW... I know a few retired people that are 200% more occupied then when they worked... ( incl. my dad ) and from memory Roger always took his time.
But even to his standard... A year is slow.
Hang on, he does keep his promises. :onya:
i remember back when i put the yoshi cams in my 14 after running it in me and a friend who had Kent cams did and in road comparison.
the yoshi's had loads more low and mid range than the kent cams.
also on the same dyno the kent cams had almost the same peak horsepower and torque.
but but kent cams had a massive whole in the lower and mid ranges compared to the yoshi's with a much straighter line on the graph.
:onya:
I haven't searched cams that much but bigger lift aint aint allways the way to go - if you think about it the peak lift is not that relevant, unless the duration is long. Usually it is'nt and the valve stays there just a fraction of time.
Now you have way bigger valves in your valve head than stock, and it flows whay different than the rest soo it's hard to say what works.
What I meant was that you could save some $£€ by taking your cams to a shop where they'd grind them to yoshi profile.
Quote from: seth on Saturday, 05 August 2017, 04:52 AM
i remember back when i put the yoshi cams in my 14 after running it in me and a friend who had Kent cams did and in road comparison.
the yoshi's had loads more low and mid range than the kent cams.
also on the same dyno the kent cams had almost the same peak horsepower and torque.
but but kent cams had a massive whole in the lower and mid ranges compared to the yoshi's with a much straighter line on the graph.
:onya:
That does ring a bell.
On the old org, a German member did a similar test. I think his name was
Teufel Raser.
Looks like yoshimura cams or grind are the way to maintain cruiseability.
Will look into info from Maggie / maverick.
the 2 graphs were overlaid on the same print out the differences were very noticeable and on the road even more so .
it was all about top end with the kent cams and lift was achieved by a regrind (smaller reprofiled lobes)and thicker shims to get the hight.
hope that makes sense.
:cheers:
p.s. both graphs were much stronger and steeper than a standard bike .
Okay.. Got a reply from Kent Cams yesterday. I have included my conversation. Removed all personal data from Kent Cams.
Good day,
At this moment i am rebuilding my 2002 gsx1400.
It will receive a 1692cc normaly aspirated engine with 3mm bigger inlet AND exhaust valves. The head has been ported and flow matched.
Using the stock cams will be limiting the potential big time.
- What kind of grind can you guys offer for street use for my GSX1700? ( I am thinking suz30 ? )
Thanks in advance.
Kind regards,
Richard from the Netherlands
Hi,
The SUZ30 will be good choice and the cost to regrind the cams is GBP263.50 per pair + vat and return shipping.
We would need the cams for 10 days.
Regards
Kent Cams
Hello XXXX,
Thank you for your reply.
- are there other ( custom) grinds available for the GSX1400 in your database?
Why?
I have just been told that the suz30 will deliver great top end power but at the cost of low end torque. ( please correct me if this is incorrect )
Fellow gsx1400 owners with a 1550cc and 1700cc recommend a grind more based on a ST-1 from Yoshimura ( part no 211-114-0100 ) I fully understand a direct copy can have legal issues so will not ask for that.
I am grateful for any info you guys can give me. This engine is 100% street use.
Regards,
Richard
Hi,
In a 1400cc it would be more top end.
In a 1700cc it should be fine but we can reduce the exhaust duration like the Yoshi if required but it will reduce the power.
Regards
Kent Cams
So.. Whilst Kent Cams can offer me a different grind more based on the Yoshi, they do not recommend it due to the fact my engine is 1700cc.
Hmm, thats interesting... ...sooo what they say I'm losing top end power with my yoshis fitted but I'd have more low end torque (and that's exactly the case at the moment) altho I've got the fuel delivery issue. Then again I'd rather keep the big low end torque to high end power, as for me the high HP is not that important....
I have been looking at the some figures:
Yoshimura Stage1 duration: in 234°/ ex 220° and lift: in 8.80 / ex 7.20mm ( not sure if cam lift OR valve lift )
Kent regrind Suz30 duration: in 237°/ ex 236° and lift: in 7.77 / ex 6.75mm - cam lift
Piper regrind PS9 duration: in 226°/ ex 212° and lift: in 8.00 / ex 6.78mm - cam lift
Kent and Piper specify their full valve lift @ 105°
Price wise,
Yoshi are are 580 incl VAT
Kent and Piper regrinds are 320 GBP incl VAT
I will ask Piper Cams to for advice.
See what they claim/ advice.
In a busa, admittedly a different engine if you add an inlet cam to the exhaust side, with slotted sprockets its an instant gain of 5 bhp, something similar would work in a gsx1400 I think, two cams ground to the same profile as the suz30
Quote from: kja on Wednesday, 16 August 2017, 03:18 AM
In a busa, admittedly a different engine if you add an inlet cam to the exhaust side, with slotted sprockets its an instant gain of 5 bhp, something similar would work in a gsx1400 I think, two cams ground to the same profile as the suz30
The current gsxr's also benefit from this trick.
I am still undecided, the reply I received from Kent, indicates they have some experience with the bigger bores 1400's
Piper is very quick with their replys but have not shared a Succes story regarding their cams in a 1550 or bigger
What is the status on this built?
Still at it at a very slow pace.
Got some stuff back from the powdercoater.
Plan is first drive around in stock 1400 version