Hi all,
I got the paperwork through today about my speeding offences. :frustrated: Got to make a plea by either online form, post or in court. I shall probably do it online but I'm wondering if there's anyone here that can give me advise about what to do and if I plea online if I'd get the chance to make a statement of some kind explaining mitigating circumstances if any for them to take into account. I know there's no defence for speeding but I feel a ban in this situation is too big of a punishment for the crime. I was doing a speed I know I could safely control the bike in and I could see far enough ahead to anticipate what other road users were doing. I also have helmet camera footage showing I was doing the limit during the actual road works where it is dangerous to speed.
I know I'm probably just clutching at straws but hoping if someone with more legal knowledge on here could advise me on what to do?
@mikesaa309 I used this guy he's Scotland based but might be able to help or advice you of someone south who also specialises in the same .
The first call is free so worth giving him a call and have a chat .
https://www.roadtrafficexpert.com
:cheers:
Shall do. Looking at another solicitors website atm. I sadly can't afford one but this guy seems to know what he's talking about. Has PDF on tips to win speeding case. It's extremely complex in terms of what is classed as evidence and it's worrying how the CPS rely on people just to plead guilty to get a conviction. Many people just plea guilty to avoid court and/or to get it over with but don't bother checking all the correct evidence is there. This solicitor in particular has had an ordinary speeding case before where it took 2 years and 5 court hearings to try and get evidence from the CPS that he wanted to see and they dropped the case due to lack of evidence. Also apparently having a picture of your vehicle with the speed reading printed on it isn't proper evidence.
Part of me wants to argue the offense in court but I for one don't have the money and secondly knowing my luck I wouldn't win the case anyway and would just be left with even more money spent than if I had just taken the punishment.
My thing was I was charged for dangerous driving at 18mph above the speed limit on an open road not near any house's or buildings .
That ment 6 points and £1000+ fine on my licence for 3 years but affecting insurance for 5 years .
If I'd plead guilty I'd would have ended up costing many £1000's over the 5 following years .
Much cheaper to fight it over the long term for me plus dangerous driving ment loss of job for me.
If it had been a normal speeding 3 points and £100 I'd have just taken it no argument.
It never went to court hearing as the evidence collapsed before it got to trial .
Something I couldn't have done myself .
Good luck :cheers:
Quote from: seth on Saturday, 05 October 2019, 11:15 PM
My thing was I was charged for dangerous driving at 18mph above the speed limit on an open road not near any house's or buildings .
What was their reasons for charging you with dangerous driving or did this involve being on one wheel lol? It is very tempting to fight it in court especially as I'm certain of a ban. Just don't have the money for a solicitor sadly it's so annoying. I'm sure a good solicitor could find a technicality or loophole and get me off. I can't tell for sure but looking at my helmet camera footage it looks as if they're shooting the laser through a window which they're not supposed to do for one thing.
Just what they decided at the time dangerous driving for the speed I was alleged to have been doing.
I was in my works van not on a bike.
Would have ment a ban and loss if job so had to fight it .
Quote from: seth on Sunday, 06 October 2019, 12:20 AM
Just what they decided at the time dangerous driving for the speed I was alleged to have been doing.
I was in my works van not on a bike.
Would have ment a ban and loss if job so had to fight it .
That's ridiculous glad you won the case. What part of the evidence collapsed?
The lawyer had several tricks he could have used if things if it had gone to trial .
He was asked about our defence and said before he got to that the prosecution didn't have enough witnesses to prove their case (they had 2) he said they needed 4-6 to collaborate all thier evidence .
They asked for an adjournment but my guy said no we were ready to go and I was a professional driver and they should have been ready .it was thrown out there and then .
My lawyer did say a couple of things to me .
1 the camara's are very accurate speed recording.
2 the pictures are very clear.
But the police nearly always get everything else wrong .
Record keeping for training ect and corroborating of equipment and supplying all paperwork to the defence side pre trial.
If you try yourself good luck but with the right lawyer you have a much better chance of beating this .
:cheers:
Damn good lawyer you got yourself!
Yeah been reading a PDF from a solicitor about things to check in terms of their evidence. Though CPS are reluctant to disclose evidence they don't want you to see apparently. But apparently video/photo evidence with speed printed on it isn't enough for prosecution. Need to have statement from the officer operating the camera that in his/her opinion you were speeding and there's no mention of that in the statement I got with the paperwork. Seems very computer generated tbf and just states that my speed triggered the camera but no mention of her opinion on whether I was speeding or not so I do wanna get that double checked by someone who knows what to look out for. But doubt any lawyer will take a look without charging a fortune.
Your also aloud to see that officers training record the maintaince and calibration record of the camera equipment and the Corroboration of all of those records .
And all the people involved in those records ect can be called as witnesses to prove they have all of these paper records .
So the person looking at the camera and there training record .
The person in charge of that person's training and thier qualification to oversee the training.
The person calibrating the equipment and thier training record .
The person who coborated the calibration of the equipment and there training record.
The calibration certificate and calibration records.
The person who keeps all these records and thier training record up make sure everything is done correctly.
The person who is in charge if the notice of intent to prosecute paper work and their training records and finally the person in charge of the person who deals with the training of that person.
My lawyer had questions for all these people and they weren't at court so thier evidence couldn't be cross reference so not acceptable by the court .
There are many other things that the prosecution get wrong but that was the start of my defence .
:cheers:
Give the lawyer in my link a call as his first consultation over the phone is free and he'll then say if he's confident he'll say he can beat it or not and if he can give you a price .
You pay per court appearance £700 mine cost total of £2400 including vat.
We worked out our insurances would have gone up by £5000 over the next 5 years plus my job was at risk .
Bloody Hell Seth!!
Have you ever thought of becoming a Lawyer ??
:grin: not me just pay the man who also knows how to ask for all of that the proper way .
I just repair wheelchairs lol
There are lots of other things the prosecution gets wrong including not sending any witnesses to court .
The whole system is really set up to have people plead guilty by post and admit things with out being proved to be at fault even if you are at fault .
Remember that your innocent untill proved guilty so make them prove it don't ever just accept it .
:cheers:
Bryn my close friend in work got flashed for doing 43 in a 30 limit - ifyou knew him you would know thats bollocks - he drives and rides at 29mph in a 30 limit, a boring git -he asked for evidence, not forthcoming so 3 magistrates court appearances later he got off -seems a bus travelling the opposite direction reflected the camera signal and he was actually doing 23 !!! was on national news and even motorcycle news - google Brynmor Carlyon - anyway, they rely on people just pleading guilty :bugga:
Quote from: seth on Sunday, 06 October 2019, 03:26 AM
Your also aloud to see that officers training record the maintaince and calibration record of the camera equipment and the Corroboration of all of those records .
And all the people involved in those records ect can be called as witnesses to prove they have all of these paper records .
So the person looking at the camera and there training record .
The person in charge of that person's training and thier qualification to oversee the training.
The person calibrating the equipment and thier training record .
The person who coborated the calibration of the equipment and there training record.
The calibration certificate and calibration records.
The person who keeps all these records and thier training record up make sure everything is done correctly.
The person who is in charge if the notice of intent to prosecute paper work and their training records and finally the person in charge of the person who deals with the training of that person.
My lawyer had questions for all these people and they weren't at court so thier evidence couldn't be cross reference so not acceptable by the court .
There are many other things that the prosecution get wrong but yet are the start of my defence .
:cheers:
Yes, the law is complicated :happy1:
A good thing if you have the money or insurance to fight... and a good lawyer.
Quote from: seth on Sunday, 06 October 2019, 03:41 AM
There are lots of other things the prosecution gets wrong including not sending any witnesses to court .
The whole system is really set up to have people plead guilty by post and admit things with out being proved to be at fault even if you are at fault .
To true they've even kindly put on the paperwork that if I plead guilty I get a whopping 30% fines :boogie: Just to make it seem more tempting to enter a guilty plea. I'm not condoning speeding but it's one of the few offences where the punishment doesn't fit the crime. If you get caught speeding you risk losing licence, therefore potentially job, insurance premiums go up and costs a fair amount in fines too, all for doing something that quite frankly isn't that dangerous providing it's in the right place and time. Doing nearly 70 in a 40 on a town road is far more dangerous than doing 70 in a 40 on a dual carriageway where it's not near the road works. Guess though can't really prove you're capable of reacting quick enough or that you're alert enough to be speeding. I think Germany have got it right with the speeds on the autobahn. There's advisory speed limits in place but it's not illegal to exceed them, however if you're in a crash and found to be exceeding the advised limits then you're at fault iirc. This sort of system should be in place everywhere.
Something else to consider.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-49641063
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-spends-30000-childrens-inheritance-20192681
yep no guarantee that you'd win a case and then you'd lose out on thousands in legal fees. My other concern in insurance. Even if I get points it's going to massively increase insurance premium let alone disqualification. :frustrated:
Quote from: Notty on Sunday, 06 October 2019, 06:38 AM
google Brynmor Carlyon - :bugga:
I did. Poor unlucky bastard. But good on him for putting it back on those pricks. Shame you can't claim expenses from the crown.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2006/feb/05/motoring.shopping
I beat this speed camera photo because there is a wheel of a second vehicle in the target box frame. Police took it to court for a trial date because nobody can fight speed traffic cameras, they dropped the case after I told them "I'll be back".
Fight them in court, at the very least it cost them more money and used their resources to tax the roads.