Hi Folks,
I had my bike serviced yesterday (Oil, fluid, filters, repair rear brake etc) and i asked him to perform a pressure test on the cylinders as well since It seems to be burning too much oil.
Anyway, the pressure test came up as 130PSI per cylinder. The mechanic said he had spoke to a friend and they thought it was fine, and was surprised how consistent the pressure was between cylinders.
The manual says all 4 cylinders need to be above 156PSI else the engine needs to overhauled.
The mechanic thinks its Ok, and a better quality of Oil (Motul 5100 10w40) should reduce any Oil reduction.
I dont know whether he put Oil in the cylinder to differentiate between Valves and Rings because to his mind the pressure was ok anyway.
Not sure what I should do. I certainly dont want (and cannot afford) an engine overhaul this riding season (i.e. the upcoming summer months) but would consider it as a winter project if it was absolutely necessary.
Thoughts?
One of the first things I did when I bought my 14 was a compression test - just to have a baseline. Result: 152 psi on all cylinders :cry2:
That was done with an el-cheapo tester :facepalm: My better tester's adapter did not fit. I made it fit with a file and retested: 181 psi :boogie:
The thing is that none of the 2 testers were CALIBRATED! For a calibrated tester you have to pay lots.
When deciding to overhaul the engine make sure a calibrated tester has been used!!!
Also the engine has to be at operating temp and the throttle has to be fully open.
To pinpoint the possible cause you need to do a compression leak down test. Putting oil in the cylinder is not the way to do it even though it's done quite often.
Yeah someone else said it might be a poorly calibrated gauge, and that the consistency between the cylinders was actually good news.
I dont want to piss off the bike mechanic just yet by quoting the service manual (hes popular in the area amongst bikers), so I might just take his advice and monitor the oil level over the next month or two and see if it goes down.
Performance seems fine. Will do 150mph with a fair wind ;)
If she's hitting those sorts of speeds, there's nowt much wrong with it. If an engine overhaul were required, there'd be huge plumes of smoke behind you at those speeds.
As for the oil - hell, each to their own on that score, heard lots of bad reviews on Motul 5100 & others are happy with it? :whatever: Just bang in some semi syn 10/40.
The engine seems to be OK with those speeds!
Maybe it was tested with closed throttle??
Engine must be warm and the throttle must be open, like Andre mentioned.
My last test two years ago was 184 to 187 psi (uncalibrated gauge)
And about those oils: In my own "tests" Motul 5100 is the worst oil I've ever used, it just don't wash enough, dirt will stay in engine.
15W40 mineral based diesel engine oils will work better in Suzuki engine and clutch.
Diesel oils tested 150 000 km(GS 1000 G)+ 60 000 km(14), and 15 000 km with turbo engine ( 41 000 km total with turbo).
Quote from: Andre on Thursday, 16 May 2019, 09:42 PM
To pinpoint the possible cause you need to do a compression leak down test. Putting oil in the cylinder is not the way to do it even though it's done quite often.
The idea of a 'wet test' is the oil seals the rings better, so if the cylinder is still down on pressure it's more likely to be a valve issue.
As to the OP's results, if they are all the same I'd say you're safe. It'd never be all four cylinders that died together without mega mileage. As a reference, mine has done nearly 130k (miles) and doesn't use a drop of oil.
Hooli, the idea of the "wet test" is clear to me - it's a poor man's test :grin:
A leak down test will give you a lot more info that is important when considering an overhaul.
Poor man with a Jag? :whatever: Just sayin. Perhaps a better choice of description of the oil test would've been better?
Ok, Cheers folks for the replies.
Funny about the Oil, as people have strong contradictory views. My bike mechanic swears by the Motul.
As for the pressure test. He mentioned a low and high rev test but I didnt drill down and ask him specifics, ill ask him next time I see him.
Ill just keep an eye on things, and see how the Oil level is in a month or twos time.
If his readings are correct, what would cause the PSI to fall to 130 on ALL 4 cylinders so consistently? As opposed to a single cylinder drastically lower than the other three?
Quote from: vonny232 on Friday, 17 May 2019, 05:20 PM
Funny about the Oil, as people have strong contradictory views. My bike mechanic swears by the Motul.
Same as religion.
However, there are objective differences. As oil consumption goes, I think that an oil with a high NOACK (evaporation test) may make a difference. I have seen oils from 5% to 15% on the NOACK. Theoretically 285 ml evaporation with 5% NOACK and 855 ml with 15% NOACK of the 5.7 liters in our 14. I think that the difference can be seen in real life.
Quote from: vonny232 on Friday, 17 May 2019, 05:20 PM
If his readings are correct, what would cause the PSI to fall to 130 on ALL 4 cylinders so consistently? As opposed to a single cylinder drastically lower than the other three?
Even low PSI on all cylinders point toby high mileage Low compression on a single cylinder points to damage.
Cheers, yeah I was thinking evenly low pressure though the mileage is just 26,000 (and that seems legit as I have the MOT history).
So, which Semi Sythetic has the lowest (best?) NOACK?
Andre, sure would be full with 5.7 litres.
@vonny232 Religion or not,
And with those miles, you can try some higly washing oil before that Motul or what ever oil,
to clean your engine(piston rings) from soot etc.
If all the cylindres are reading the same pressure and the bike will still do 150mph and there are not plumes of smoke billowing out the back I would just ride it and worry less.
Vonny, no expert but from your description seems gummed up rings to me. Low cylinder pressure and oil use points that way. Me, just me, in same situation would try a high detergent oil. As said above. Mobil Delvac is clutch friendly, high detergent. Have used before for a clean out. Give it a 1000k run, see if it helps. I once tried the Motul bike oil, wasnt at all impressed, clunky gear change and expensive.
Cheers Folks,
I was not aware of a "washing" or "detergent" style oil. Thats an interesting thought about de-sooting the rings.
Any recommendations of detergent Oil which are available in the UK/Ireland? Im not sure Mobil Delvac is available here?
p.s. I read online that some detergent Oils can be counter productive, as it adds additional buildup thanks to the additional chemicals???
The biggest problem when switching to a high deterget oil is with old, high mileage models as the detrgent washes out all the stuff thats keeping the old engine running so can cause real problems but you should be okay at just 26k. You dont have to keep using it if/when your engine frees up just switch back to a good oil (open another can of worms).
Most diesel engine oils are washing for that soot what diesel engines produce more than petrol engines.
Mobil Delvac MX 15W40 is one good, Teboil SHPD 15W40(maybe you can't find it from there, I have used that)
Castrol has same kind of oils(Idont know their types).
Most washing oil I know is old Shell X-100, but I haven't tried it in 14, only in older bikes, it's good also for slipping clutch plates.
Heavy duty diesel oils contain also enough zinc, 1300 to 1600 ppm.
God im learning more and more here...
I didnt know you could put diesel oil in a bike.
And how about simply using engine cleaner solution to flush the cylinders instead of a washing Oil? i.e. draining the oil and pouring the stuff in whille cranking the engine over? I read some people pour a mix of engine cleaner and oil or even an oil/petrol mix into the cylinder (though the plug hole), leave it a few days and then crank it over to flush away the crud?
I know it sounds a bit mad but thats google for you :)
Quote from: vonny232 on Friday, 17 May 2019, 06:18 PM
Cheers, yeah I was thinking evenly low pressure though the mileage is just 26,000 (and that seems legit as I have the MOT history).
So, which Semi Sythetic has the lowest (best?) NOACK?
I don't know about semi-synthetic. The full-synthetic I use has a NOACK of 5%. An oil with API SN specification must not have a higher NOACK than 15%.
I suggest you pick semi-synthetic oils that are available to you and then use your friend google to find out. Put in the oil you are searching for, followed by
pdf. That usually get you to the product information sheets. Not all list the NOACK (and many of the data available for that oil) as they like to keep less positive data to themselves.
With a bore scope you can inspect the combustion chambers so you can see how much carbon build-up you got. There are cheap ones that you can hook up to a smart-phone. Usually they don't have the ability to turn the head-optic. Without that ability you will not see the valves (only see the piston top).
IF you have excessive carbon build-up (some is normal) I doubt that you will get rid of it in a short time - if at all - with an oil with high detergent value. I think that diesel oil as advised by T24 will be helpful. Synthetic oils also have a very good cleaning property without the need for a bunch of detergent additives. However, you need high detergent values to keep the loosened particles in suspension (and hope the bigger ones get filtered out by the oil filter before they make your clutch slip or collect in the smaller oil passge ways. There are also engine (oil) flush treatments. There are also cleaners you can pour into the tank that claim to reduce carbon (are they worth it???) But I doubt any of them will greatly decrease carbon build-up on valves and pistons. IMO the only way to remove excessive carbon is to do it manually. LOTS of f.....g FUN.
The big question to me is: Are those PSI readings reliable? That is where I would get started first.
Regarding the psi's
From what I know as long as they are not very low the main thing is they are all very simular to each other.
A bit like balancing carbs/throttle bodies the reading isn't as import as that they match(or are very close).
As for carbon build up and engine life .
Others here have massive mileages and things seam fine I guess once folk start stripping motors with high mileages things will become clearer.
Highly modified motors might be a different case .
Lastly I think motors with modified exhausts and not sorting out the fueling(even if it's running ok) makes the bikes run at a non-optimum temperature affecting things.
Using good quality (non expensive) oil and regular changes is the best thing to keep your motor in top condition .
:cheers:
Cheers for the replies folks. Ill just monitor the Oil levels for the next month and see what happens then. I certainly dont want to perform any expensive interventions or repairs anytime soon.
One other point - I have non standard exuasts (ART cans with a pretty large bore and no DB killers, loud as hell). Not sure if that will affect Oil usage??
Andre, point taken. 5.7 litres it is.