GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => Fuelling => Topic started by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 07:05 AM

Title: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 07:05 AM
Year ago, tuning PCV on dyno, I face and issue, when there were not enough fuel on high revs, and my 14 didn't get all the power it could get with Yoshi cams.

As I find out - fuel filter was full of crap, and fuel pump was able to deliver only 0.4L instead of 1.2L in 30 sec.

I solve this issue, buy drilling a hole in to oem fuel filter and installing at first replaceable: http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg41028#msg41028
and than reusable external fuel filter http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=590.msg43065#msg43065

Even this was not a bad solution, I had itching what filter was AFTER pressure regulator. An also the look, even it was almost not visible, I would prefer not to see it at all.
So I decide to create some solution, when filter will be where it was designed to be - inside the fuel tank.

At firsts, I want to use AN fittings, so I order a lot of different parts from e-bay. But when I had them all (and even more), I understand what system assembled using AN6 fittings (AN4 inside diameter seems better then AN4) will just not fit inside the tank. So AN solution was discarded.

Somehow, I came to idea to use copper solderable tubing and fittings, outside diameter 10mm. Those pipes have inside diameter of ~8mm, what is more then enough to feed GSX engine. I order new Golan Mini reusable fuel filter, but now with 3/8'' fittings (my previous was with 5/16''). Copper parts were purchased from local plumbing warehouse. Solder and torch I had.
Almost forgot - I had a new fuel-pump, which I get from Amazon (Quantum). It was almost direct replacement to OEM pump. I just switch wires from OEM pump, and had some hard time installing t-bag filter, but other ways it can be used in OEM system.

Long story short - on last weekend of March, I take OEM pump apart, and cut the plastic part in peaces. THERE IS NO WAY BACK NOW!
From exiting OEM part, using rotary tool, I fabricate bracket for my new pump. IMHO, it came out peaty neat.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 07:17 AM
First, I make this part. Even I was soldering tubes first time in my life, having just YouTube experience, it came out good, and I was really proud with it.
But, when I put it all together - it simply did not fit thou the pump hole of the fuel tank!!!  :facepalm:

Pressure regulator was on the way  :furious:

Nothing to do - I had to find a new solution (or to bye new OEM fuel pump)...
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 07:34 AM
This Monday, I bought new copper fittings (this time with reserve) and after work start manufacturing from begging.
Because it was second time, now I have experiences and ideas how to improve some details.

It take me 3 evenings, but today I start my 14 with newest fuel pump/filter solution! :onya:

Cant say, I'm 100% happy how it came out, but I will improve it over the time, and who know's, maybe will make third solution :)

Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: Snapey on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 10:05 AM
That looks a great job but I have to ask why? To clean my external filter I lift the tank & the filter is in front of me & ready to clean. The pump stays in the tank.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 05:06 PM
Quote from: northern on Thursday, 11 April  2019, 07:05 AM
I had itching what filter was AFTER pressure regulator. An also the look, even it was almost not visible, I would prefer not to see it at all.
Yes, from cleaning perspective - it's much easier to access when filter is outside.
But, I think fuel pressure regulator should be after the filter, because filter is reducing pressure (a little, but still) and if regulator is before filter, theoretically fuel preasure on the rail will be slightly lower then it will be if filter fill be before regulator.

I absolutely understand, this is theory and in reality it will not make big difference, but I just want it to be like this :)
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: grog on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 06:53 PM
Stunning job mate. If thats what you wanted all praise. Im with Snapey on external filter, we have similar. My bike has run perfectly since fitting, easy to clean. No tech talk from me but when i first fitted i could really notice a much more responsive and free revving motor. Still is. Great job Northern.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Thursday, 11 April 2019, 08:48 PM
@grog
Thanks!

As I remember - your and @Snapey filter was 30 or 40 microns, and they are slightly smaller then smallest 10 microns filter I was able to find. So your outside solution was more elegant when mine.

I enjoy fabricating it, other ways I would go for new OEM part.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: KiwiCol on Friday, 12 April 2019, 02:37 AM
Quote from: northern on Thursday, 11 April  2019, 08:48 PM
@grog
Thanks!

As I remember - your and @Snapey filter was 30 or 40 mikrons, and they are slightly smaller then smalest 10 mikrons filter I was able to find. So your outside solution was more elegant when mine.

I enjoy fabricating it, other ways I would go for new OEM part.




Errrrrm, wouldn't 10 microns be smaller than 30 microns and smaller again than 40 microns?
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Friday, 12 April 2019, 06:00 AM
Quote from: KiwiCol on Friday, 12 April  2019, 02:37 AM
Quote from: northern on Thursday, 11 April  2019, 08:48 PM
@grog
Thanks!

As I remember - your and @Snapey filter was 30 or 40 microns, and they are slightly smaller then smallest 10 microns filter I was able to find. So your outside solution was more elegant when mine.

I enjoy fabricating it, other ways I would go for new OEM part.


Errrrrm, wouldn't 10 microns be smaller than 30 microns and smaller again than 40 microns?
Sorry for confusing - by smaller I mean smaller casing.
@grog and @Snapey use Proflow Competition Billet Reusable 30 Micron Fuel Filter which have smaller casing then Golan Mini 10 micron fuel filter what I use.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: KiwiCol on Friday, 12 April 2019, 06:14 AM
Ahhhh, understand now.   Thx
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: Notty on Friday, 12 April 2019, 06:26 AM
Ahhh here as well..... :)
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: Speedy1959 on Friday, 12 April 2019, 04:23 PM
Very nice Northern..
Your solution reminds me of those "Steam Punk" creations
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: KiwiCol on Friday, 12 April 2019, 05:13 PM
'allo Simon, nice to see ya mate!   How's that new lump of yours going?
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: Speedy1959 on Sunday, 14 April 2019, 01:18 PM
Hi KC
I do keep lurking on here regularly..
My lump is running well thanks mate.
Yesterday I replaced the swing arm bearings.. I can say that it was a much harder job than on the Suzuki !
Coolant expansion bottle has to be removed for one..

I shall keep lurking and doing the odd post KC..

S
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: seth on Sunday, 14 April 2019, 04:12 PM
Good to see you on @Speedy1959 (simon) hope life is good with you and things are going well .
Will give you a call soon for a catch up .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Sunday, 14 April 2019, 05:28 PM
Is filter pointing in right direction?
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Monday, 15 April 2019, 03:17 AM
Quote from: mlivkovich on Sunday, 14 April  2019, 05:28 PM
Is filter pointing in right direction?
Obviously not, at least  on this picture  :facepalm:

But it's possible, I notice and put it right way, before I install it int tho the tank.
Anyway, I will take it out and check.

Thank's for pointing my attention! :onya:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Wednesday, 17 April 2019, 04:07 AM
So, filter was the wrong way in... :embarrassed:
Take it out, and install it right way in.

Thx @mlivkovich  :hat:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Wednesday, 17 April 2019, 04:31 AM
Glad you solved it :cheers:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Friday, 05 July 2019, 09:59 PM
@northern what are the inner diameters at the ends of copper fitings for pump, plate and pressure regulator?
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Friday, 05 July 2019, 10:39 PM
@mlivkovich - I don't remember exactly, so I would try to recreate.

I use OD 10mm tubes - this is I'm sure.
filter and pump were regular 10mm size female elbow's (mening ID is 10+mm) with 10mm fuel hose pushed over it.
Fuel regulator, could be 12mm female adapter, so ID would be ~12.5mm.
Same with tank outlet plate.

I could check it someday, when I will be at my "workshop" - I still have bad sample left there.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Friday, 05 July 2019, 11:12 PM
Thank you @northern! I have to make something like you did but I"ll keep fuel filter outside fuel tank, so I just need some kind of T or Y piece to cennetct pump to plate and regulator in between. My bike runs like sh☆t because fuel leaks from HP filter housing I couldn't seal properly after external filter mod :cheers:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: Andre on Friday, 05 July 2019, 11:47 PM
I am sorry to hear that @mlivkovich
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Saturday, 06 July 2019, 12:31 AM
Quote from: Andre on Friday, 05 July  2019, 11:47 PM
I am sorry to hear that @mlivkovich

I made a mistake, i should only drill a hole in housing and leave filter in housing.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Saturday, 06 July 2019, 01:29 AM
while you will planning your solution - keep in mined it have to fit into the 65mm hole. Don't make my mistake, when you have finalized solution, which do not fit into the tank :)

also - I look on my orders, and I think I was using 15mm male to 10mm female adapter for pressure regulator and tank outlet connection. it also make more sense - 15mm male  will have 15mm OD, and ~13,5 ID. If I remember right, O-ring used in this connection is 8mm ID with 3.5mm think rubber material which makes OD = 8+3.5*2 = 15mm.

hope, this information will help you solve your issue  :hat:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Saturday, 06 July 2019, 02:15 AM
I will  :stir: something and post it here if you don't mind
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Monday, 08 July 2019, 07:38 PM
Here is my steampunk solution. I used 15mm copper fitings, 10mm fuel hose and clamps (alot of them :facepalm:) New pump is fitted so pressure and flow is like new again :clapping:

My bike is running smooth again, thank you for the idea @northern  :cheers:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: northern on Monday, 08 July 2019, 07:59 PM
@mlivkovich
well done, mate! Glad you get inspiration of my solution! :hat:

I use claps, what could be compress to fit - make solution more neat.
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: mlivkovich on Monday, 08 July 2019, 08:00 PM
I wanted to use them but couldn't find in local stores, thanx again :cheers:
Title: Re: Custom intank fuelpump/filter solution
Post by: grog on Tuesday, 09 July 2019, 07:28 PM
Mliv and Northern, you blokes rule, pure genius stuff. Think ill leave mine as is but purchase another pump assembly and copy your work, toss that in tank HP away. Have had external filter a while now, IMO the best thing ive ever done, maybe Wilbers springs in front also, stopped dive that 14 had original. Great work you blokes.   :hat: :clapping: