GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => General Technical discussion => Topic started by: Mikey on Monday, 04 March 2019, 09:41 PM

Title: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Monday, 04 March 2019, 09:41 PM
Some of you may have seen that in his infinite wisdom the Mayor of London has introduced the ULEZ and has kindly applied it to motorcycles which are Pre Euro 3, so as an owner of a 2002 model I am looking at having to pay a £12.50/day charge.

To help improve air quality, an Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ) will be in place in central London from 8 April 2019 in the same area as the Congestion Charge. Most vehicles including cars and vans will need to meet new, tighter exhaust emission standards (ULEZ standards) or be liable for a daily charge to drive within the ULEZ area.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone

They also make a stupid suggestion:-

Upgrade to a second-hand vehicle that meets ULEZ standards

Nearly all motorcycles produced since 2007 meet the ULEZ standards
Check your vehicle registration document to find your vehicle's Euro emission standard or NOx emissions. If these are not listed on the vehicle registration document then use our vehicle checker[/i][/color]

It seems pretty unfair that my son's 1400cc Polo, which would be stuck in traffic a considerable amount of time if driving in London is exempt, but a motorbike of a similar capacity (and probably less emissions) which can make a much quicker journey is subject to a charge. Ridiculously, my Triumph Rocket (2300cc) is exempt!

I have been trying to research data on GSX emissions to determine what the NOx figures is for my K2 as it is not shown on my logbook. TfL kindly provide a registration checker to determine whether the charge applies or not and have conveniently used the year of registration to determine that a charge applies.

I am looking to find NOx criteria for motorcycles to meet the Euro 3 but have not had any luck.

Is there anyone on the forum who has also been looking into this who could help with the NOx data.

Many thanks

Mikey

TIA

There is an opportunity to present data evidence to gain exemption, which I am hoping to do if I can source suitable information.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Andre on Monday, 04 March 2019, 10:28 PM
This might contain some help for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skGVIj_kDuc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skGVIj_kDuc)
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Tuesday, 05 March 2019, 12:25 AM
Thanks Andre

Interesting

Motorcycle Action Group have put up some information:-

https://wiki.mag-uk.org/images/7/74/ULEZ_2017_06_21.pdf

Which includes:-

The Mayor of London's stated position towards motorcycles
It should also be noted that the Mayor of London, Sadiq Kahn, has overtly supported the case for enabling motorcycle use in London. The Mayor, in 'The Road' magazine in April 2016 (13) wrote:
'As Mayor, I'll work with the motorcycling community to make sure that riders' rights and interests are taken on board as an integral part of the transport mix in the
city. It's clear motorbikes and scooters generate far less pollution, save time and money for the rider - and don't create congestion. It's absolutely right for us to enable powered two wheelers to play their part in delivering a less congested road network... one clear policy area is the case for a more consistent approach to bikes in bus lanes – a scheme which has proved itself effective, without creating undue problems or risks for other road users such as cyclists. But riders can fall foul of regulations because boroughs don't all have the same approach. As Mayor, I'll work to create consistency across the city to make bus lanes open to riders throughout the Capital...I will meet with representatives of riders' rights organisations and learn at first-hand what you need and want....Politics is a dialogue, so that will be the beginning of what I hope turns out to be a very productive relationship between you and the city. From bikes carrying urgent blood supplies, Internet shopping deliveries through to commuters - this city IS big enough for all of us as long as we co-operate together.'


I have already made an enquiry with a Suzuki dealership regarding the NOx for the bike.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mick_J on Tuesday, 05 March 2019, 07:22 PM
Quite a few lads on the Ducati forum are going through the same process, have a look at this http://www.ukmonster.co.uk/monster/showthread.php?t=57125 seems you need a certificate from the Manufacturer and then submit that to the TFL.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Tuesday, 05 March 2019, 08:58 PM
Thanks mjgt

Yes, it's affecting so many riders

I've contacted Suzuki, currently waiting for a response.

Mikey
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Monday, 18 March 2019, 10:05 PM
Update:

After two weeks, I'm still waiting for a response from Suzuki regarding what the NOx emission value is for my K2.

However, I note for the Suzuki UK website, that they are offering Certificate of Conformity and Certificate of Construction (CoC) Applications for £95! EACH

https://bikes.suzuki.co.uk/contact-us/certificate-of-conformity/

I'll post any further updates.

Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: ARH on Monday, 18 March 2019, 11:25 PM
Quote from: Mikey on Monday, 18 March  2019, 10:05 PM
Update:

After two weeks, I'm still waiting for a response from Suzuki regarding what the NOx emission value is for my K2.

However, I note for the Suzuki UK website, that they are offering Certificate of Conformity and Certificate of Construction (CoC) Applications for £95! EACH

https://bikes.suzuki.co.uk/contact-us/certificate-of-conformity/

I'll post any further updates.


According to my bike registration docs NOx emission level is 0.18...  whatever the hell that means!  :whatever:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Andre on Monday, 18 March 2019, 11:44 PM
Quote from: ARH on Monday, 18 March  2019, 11:25 PM

According to my bike registration docs NOx emission level is 0.18...  whatever the hell that means!  :whatever:

0.18 won't do, needs to be 0.15 or lower.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mick_J on Tuesday, 19 March 2019, 07:22 PM
Quote from: Mikey on Monday, 18 March  2019, 10:05 PM
Update:

After two weeks, I'm still waiting for a response from Suzuki regarding what the NOx emission value is for my K2.

However, I note for the Suzuki UK website, that they are offering Certificate of Conformity and Certificate of Construction (CoC) Applications for £95! EACH

https://bikes.suzuki.co.uk/contact-us/certificate-of-conformity/

I'll post any further updates.

It's a bit of a spanking but if you get a good result it will pay for itself in two weeks.  Good luck.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Thursday, 21 March 2019, 04:39 AM
Still waiting for Suzuki to respond!

I suspect that it will be as ARH's docs as 0.18, which will not give an exemption
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: ARH on Thursday, 21 March 2019, 05:18 AM
I'm sure I have a coc.... think it was needed to register the 14 here in Austria when I brought it over from the UK,  If I have I'll scan It and post it up...
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Thursday, 04 April 2019, 10:34 PM
"Helpful" Update from Suzuki GB

Dear Mike,

Thank you for your email to Suzuki GB Plc.

Firstly, please accept our apologies that your initial email has not been responded to. It would appear that the email was blocked by our internal servers; we have raised this issue internally directly with the I.T Manager, here at Head Office.

In regards to your enquiry regarding the emissions for your model, we have checked the model details and notice that, as it was first registered in March 2002, it will not meet Euro 3 status. In 2004 Certificate of Conformity's became a legal requirement for all vehicles / motorcycles. Having discussed this matter with the Technical Department, we have been informed that, due to the date your motorcycle was manufactured, there will not be a Certificate of Conformity in existence for your vehicle; therefore, we are unable to provide you with the emissions data.

In order to further assist you, we would suggest, perhaps, you contact an independent specialist to arrange for an emissions testing to be carried out on your model, by a TFL (Transport for London) approved testing station, to establish whether or not it meets the change in legislation. For more information, please contact the Transport for London https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone or https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/motorcycles-mopeds-and-more#on-this-page-0

We understand that this response may fall short of your expectations and, for that, we sincerely apologise.

We would like to thank you for contacting Suzuki GB Plc. Should you require any assistance, on another matter, please do contact us on 08085 011959.

Kind regards,
Natalie
Customer Services Executive
Suzuki GB PLC
Steinbeck Crescent, Snelshall West, Milton Keynes, Buckinghamshire, MK4 4AE
t: 08085 011 959
e: customerservices@suzuki.co.ukwwww.suzuki.co.uk
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Friday, 05 April 2019, 07:47 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIkS9xnv4IQ&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3en5gZYm8d9SE14J9x4h_Q2Sn7typlWHI4RWxP3zrIaf6oCglhJMrN7XQ

The only option appears to be the only place in London that has been certified by TFL to test at the cost of £175!

Riverbank Motorcycles in Hackney Wick +44 20 8983 4896

I guess it's not worth having it tested if the other member's CoCs are stating 0.18, unless there is a "fix" to reduce the NOx.

Does anyone know of a fix or has a contact in VW who will certainly know how to cheat the system?  ;)
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Andre on Saturday, 06 April 2019, 12:28 PM
Run the engine a bit richer and/or retard timing.

(No affiliation with VW  :devil:)

Screenshots from https://www.coursehero.com/file/p485c7m/A-Air-Fuel-Mixture-AFR-POWER-ECONOMY-COHC-NOx-LEAN-LOW-HIGH-LOW-HIGH-RICH-HIGH/ (https://www.coursehero.com/file/p485c7m/A-Air-Fuel-Mixture-AFR-POWER-ECONOMY-COHC-NOx-LEAN-LOW-HIGH-LOW-HIGH-RICH-HIGH/)
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Andre on Saturday, 06 April 2019, 03:23 PM
Some options to run richer:

- PC III or PC V
- Yoshi box or Niko fuel adjuster
- Resistor IAT modification
- Some Suzuki dealers are able and willing to do the adjustment for you at little cost (at least here in Germany)

For Ignition retardation

- Do the opposite of this http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=144.0 (http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=144.0)

- If you have a TRE, disable it.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Saturday, 06 April 2019, 10:05 PM
Many Thanks Andre

I will look into this

:hat:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: fylfot on Tuesday, 09 April 2019, 06:20 AM
so it's a tax on the poor. If you're billy big pockets with a shiny new bike, happy days, otherwise get the bus dirtball. They said on the news tonight that a diesel car produces 30 times more pollution that the petrol equivalent, i remember when everyone was being encouraged to buy diesels! i have never been so exasperated with the world as i am atm.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: turner on Wednesday, 10 April 2019, 07:38 AM
I was reading all this and have just checked my 04 reg, and the log book does show 0.140 co, ...never looked before/did not need to ,once had a 1.3 diesel corsa, ex forces log book not showing co readings, main garage said should be £30 road tax. DVLA charged full. had to pay £95 for certificate of conformaty. ended up paying £120 road tax....lol
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: fylfot on Wednesday, 10 April 2019, 08:07 PM
I put my 2003 gsx1400 reg into the ulez government checker and it failed, put my 2.5 litre v6 2001 mitsubishi car in and it passed!!! what a nonsense.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Notty on Wednesday, 10 April 2019, 08:14 PM
I put my 2013 VW Tiguan TDI 177 bhp in and it fails  !! no way I will be driving there anyway  :) But they are going to introduce the same thing here in Cardiff but being over 60 we get free bus pass so never take the car into city centre - have ridden the 14 in because we can use the bus lanes  :)
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Mikey on Wednesday, 17 April 2019, 02:59 AM
Quote from: turner on Wednesday, 10 April  2019, 07:38 AM
I was reading all this and have just checked my 04 reg, and the log book does show 0.140 co, ...never looked before/did not need to ,once had a 1.3 diesel corsa, ex forces log book not showing co readings, main garage said should be £30 road tax. DVLA charged full. had to pay £95 for certificate of conformaty. ended up paying £120 road tax....lol

Hi Turner,

Does the log book show a NOx level of 0.14? The magic number to get to is 0.15 or below.

If it is 0.14, would you be able to post up your log book details (minus sensitive info) so I can share this with Suzuki to see if they can produce a CoC to 0.14.

TIA

Mikey
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: ARH on Wednesday, 17 April 2019, 08:09 PM
@Mikey...mail sent to you today  :cheers:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June 2023, 02:19 AM
Hi Mikey, did u get any further with this? Did Suzuki manage to give u a cert with NOx emission?

Need to do this for my 2005 K5 GSX1400.. so cheesed off with this flippin ULEZ money making pallava!

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June 2023, 03:00 AM
Aaah, just checked my V5 logbook and it shows 0.15 g/km for the NOx. Assuming this good enough to present to TFL? Or have some still had to get a CoC from Suzuki?

Thanks in advance guys!
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June 2023, 11:03 PM
Quote from: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June  2023, 03:00 AMAaah, just checked my V5 logbook and it shows 0.15 g/km for the NOx. Assuming this good enough to present to TFL? Or have some still had to get a CoC from Suzuki?

Thanks in advance guys!

Ignore, just looked at TFL website..fookers want me to part with £95 to get a CoC as part of V5C admission... Grrr!
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Kiwifruit on Thursday, 08 June 2023, 08:09 AM
Man made global warming is a money grabbing hoax.....Greta !!   :furious:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 08 June 2023, 09:47 AM
Quote from: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June  2023, 11:03 PM
Quote from: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June  2023, 03:00 AMAaah, just checked my V5 logbook and it shows 0.15 g/km for the NOx. Assuming this good enough to present to TFL? Or have some still had to get a CoC from Suzuki?

Thanks in advance guys!

Ignore, just looked at TFL website..fookers want me to part with £95 to get a CoC as part of V5C admission... Grrr!
so how does paying 95 quid suddenly make your bike environmentally better? Surely this is just revenue raising and nothing to do with reducing emissions.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: GSXKING on Thursday, 08 June 2023, 05:27 PM
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Thursday, 08 June  2023, 08:09 AMMan made global warming is a money grabbing hoax.....Greta !!   :furious:

HOW DAAARREE YOUUU  :stir:  :stir:  :stir:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: T250 on Thursday, 08 June 2023, 05:48 PM
:facepalm:

image.jpg
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: bladey on Friday, 09 June 2023, 04:43 AM
Quote from: Eric GSX1400K3 on Thursday, 08 June  2023, 09:47 AM
Quote from: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June  2023, 11:03 PM
Quote from: bladey on Wednesday, 07 June  2023, 03:00 AMAaah, just checked my V5 logbook and it shows 0.15 g/km for the NOx. Assuming this good enough to present to TFL? Or have some still had to get a CoC from Suzuki?

Thanks in advance guys!

Absolutely correct, it's just a money making scheme and the worst of it is they're slowly wanting to bring this rule out to the rest of the UK.. Just a bloody scam. I'm lucky mine is a K5, anyone pre this date is gona have a headache, even tho I don't think there's any, IF any difference in the engine from 2001. There are cars that are worse in polluting the environment but are later in build date. Absolute nonsense!!!

Ignore, just looked at TFL website..fookers want me to part with £95 to get a CoC as part of V5C admission... Grrr!
so how does paying 95 quid suddenly make your bike environmentally better? Surely this is just revenue raising and nothing to do with reducing emissions.
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: GSXKING on Friday, 09 June 2023, 06:27 AM
It truly is a con job our local Brisbane City Council spent $3 million to an apparently non existent forest to improve our "green credentials" bunch of numpties  :frustrated:  :frustrated:
Title: Re: Ultra Low Emission Zone (London) - Being introduced on 8 April 2019
Post by: KiwiCol on Friday, 09 June 2023, 11:51 AM
That's staggering, how can they give away ratepayers money like that??!!  The ones responsible should have to pay it back out of their own pocket!