So gentlemen. I've just bought this bike. It was a cheap deal so iwas ready to do some work. When i looked at the bike and heard it running it had a misfire from one cylinder(likely number 2)
It didn't look like it had a service for some time so iv'e done.
New plugs,air filter,had the injectors cleaned down at injectortune,cleaned the tea bag.
Got it back together and it's still the same.
Also the 'fast idle when cold' does not seem to work.
When the bike is on tickover i'm getting an intermittent pop thru the exhaust,like there is unburnt fuel getting in there.
I'm no great whizz with fuel injection so i'm a bit stumped......
Your misfire & ignition switch issues could be related. Bit too early in the morning for me, but there's 2 maps, 1 is for starting & 1 is for running, if you've got a bypassed clutch switch, it won't be using the right map.
Do you have to pull the clutch in to start it? The popping / backfiring will be fom the pairs, I'd say, you can either block them off or get rid of entirely with no ill effect - actually runs better, but you'll loose the popping on deceleration.
Tho youve cleaned the teabag filter did you wash out the high pressure filter with carb cleaner too ?
Did you clean out the fuel lines before rebuilding everything as you might have pushed more dirt into the system ?
Have you tried swopping over the coils to see if the miss-fire changes sides ?
Have you checked as many connections in the loom as you can to eliminate and bad or corroded connections ?
Where are you if there's someone near they could swop parts of the same model of 14(upto end of k4 (twin can) is the same and from k5 (single can)is the same but the parts you need to try aren't the same across models) to try and fine the problem .
I'm in north East Scotland if you can get here happy to try things to sort it .
:cheers:
Hi Gentlemen.
Thank you for your replys.
I had to rewire the std ignition switch to get it to run.
I'd wondered about the coils and i can swap them over.
I'll do it tomorrow
Quote from: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 12 September 2018, 03:05 AM
Your misfire & ignition switch issues could be related. Bit too early in the morning for me, but there's 2 maps, 1 is for starting & 1 is for running, if you've got a bypassed clutch switch, it won't be using the right map.
Do you have to pull the clutch in to start it? The popping / backfiring will be fom the pairs, I'd say, you can either block them off or get rid of entirely with no ill effect - actually runs better, but you'll loose the popping on deceleration.
Hi There. The pattern ignition switch did not power the bike so i've had to go back to the suzuki item.
I've fired the bike up again this morning and number 2 cylinder is taking longer to get warm than the others. I do need to pull the clutch in to start the bike.
I'm going to swap the coils over later today.
Thank You for your input
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 12 September 2018, 03:07 AM
Tho youve cleaned the teabag filter did you wash out the high pressure filter with carb cleaner too ?
Did you clean out the fuel lines before rebuilding everything as you might have pushed more dirt into the system ?
Have you tried swopping over the coils to see if the miss-fire changes sides ?
Have you checked as many connections in the loom as you can to eliminate and bad or corroded connections ?
Where are you if there's someone near they could swop parts of the same model of 14(upto end of k4 (twin can) is the same and from k5 (single can)is the same but the parts you need to try aren't the same across models) to try and fine the problem .
I'm in north East Scotland if you can get here happy to try things to sort it .
:cheers:
Hi There. When i cleaned the teabag i did put some carb cleaner into the hi pressure filter and i cleaned the fuel lines out. I've pushed and pulled at all the connectors i can see as the bike is running.It seems like it's number 2 that's not right as it's taking longer for that header to get warm.
I'm going to try swapping the coils over today.
Thank You for your input
If swapping coils doesn't help you could try swapping injectors around. I know you've had them cleaned but it's never worth trusting something 100% until you've tested it yourself.
Plus why they are out you can recheck the tiny filter mesh where they fit to the fuel rail, it wouldn't take much dirt to partly block that.
Hi Simonic, my bike has similar situation with you. When I checked the pressure of cylinder 2, it was significantly lower than the other 3 cylinders.
May worth a look. :)
Thank You Hooli,that's worth a try. The injector filters are new tho.
Rollerfish01,by pressure do you mean a compression check? if so ,how did you approach the problem? Engine strip req'd ?
Quote from: Simonic on Thursday, 13 September 2018, 06:45 AM
Thank You Hooli,that's worth a try. The injector filters are new tho.
I'm just thinking of a bit of dirt out of the fuel rail or pipe work that your flush dislodged but didn't clear out. It sounds like you've done everything else I can think of.
I would check your number 2 plug just incase you nocked the plug gap when refitting it , i say this coz i did the same thing on mine and it took me ages to find it ? mainly coz i just thought cant be plugs ive changed them ... but it was a closed gap !
I've had a brandnew plug DOA before, not for a bike but it does happen.
Quote from: Simonic on Thursday, 13 September 2018, 06:47 AM
Rollerfish01,by pressure do you mean a compression check? if so ,how did you approach the problem? Engine strip req'd ?
Yes, I did the compression check as stated in the service mannual, chapter 2-27 "PERIODIC MAINTENANCE: COMPRESSION PRESSURE CHECK",
You can find it at the downloads page.
Hope you can locate the problem and fix it soon ! :)
Today I swapped the coils over and the problem did not travel. Then I disconnected the PAIRS. This has cured the problem. I just taped over the ends of the pipe and the tube on the head and it stopped popping straight away. Just to make sure I reconnected the system as the problem came back. I know a lot of you guys disable the system, but how does it work? Do many of you use the blanking plate option or just block it off? I'd be interested to know. Thank you so much for your help everyone.
I've done all the bikes with the blanking plates and bolts in the holes .others do it by blocking the holes in the pair's castings on the head .
The way it works is via a vacuum from the throttle bodies it opens read valves in the head letting extra air into the exhaust just after the exhaust valves to help burn any unused fuel in the exhaust to help clean up emissions.
Main thing when removing is to remove the rear valves from there mountings as they have been known to break off if left in ,also block the 2 holes in the airbox as this allows unfiltered extra air into the system making the bike run very rich and the pipe from the throttle bodies as that makes them run shite if not sealed .
If you can't get a plate kit to remover the pair's for a gsx1400 the kits for a hyabusa also fit as it's the same system used on them.
Good luck glad you found the problem.
All sounds very complicated but is really straightforward and simple to do .
:cheers:
there is a step by step guide and options on how to do it on here and loads of threads just have a search .
Link for removing pair's
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=310.0
:cheers:
Thank you so much gentlemen for all your help. I really appreciate it.
I'll follow the instructions in the link and do the job :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Simonic, yeah two choices really. remove the whole thing, fit blanking plates etc. ive never got around to that. my air hose to pairs has been blocked for lots of ks, ball bearing from memory. just dis ables it. good or bad way, no idea, but works.
Quote from: Simonic on Friday, 14 September 2018, 11:19 AM
Today I swapped the coils over and the problem did not travel. Then I disconnected the PAIRS. This has cured the problem. I just taped over the ends of the pipe and the tube on the head and it stopped popping straight away. Just to make sure I reconnected the system as the problem came back. I know a lot of you guys disable the system, but how does it work? Do many of you use the blanking plate option or just block it off? I'd be interested to know. Thank you so much for your help everyone.
- Did your problem with problem nr 2 beiging colder also disappear?
That would indicate the PAIRS system has a preference for nr 2.. not that is a bad thing... just wondering.
Just for info the vacuum hose that operates the pair's stuff is fed from number 2 cylinders throttle body handy to know if it's affecting how the bike runs.
:cheers:
At first I plugged the hoses by the PAIR valves and the air box. Added a plug in the hose by the throttle body for good measure.
blocking hose from air box disables, nothing can enter. cannot work without it. no need to block vacuum hose.
Certainly not needed to block the vacuum hose to disable the PAIR but gives the diaphragm in the cut-off valve a break and "quiets" the throttle body.
[/quote]
- Did your problem with problem nr 2 beiging colder also disappear?
That would indicate the PAIRS system has a preference for nr 2.. not that is a bad thing... just wondering.
[/quote]
Yes it did .All warm up equally now
If you don't plug the hose on the throttle body then you have a vacuum going out to the air so the bike won't run properly .
:frustrated:
Quote from: seth on Friday, 14 September 2018, 08:22 PM
Just for info the vacuum hose that operates the pair's stuff is fed from number 2 cylinders throttle body handy to know if it's affecting how the bike runs.
:cheers:
No3. I've just walked outside & checked as that sounded wrong, it's the hose nearest No4 on No3 TB.
Quote from: seth on Friday, 14 September 2018, 11:20 PM
If you don't plug the hose on the throttle body then you have a vacuum going out to the air so the bike won't run properly .
:frustrated:
I think they mean if you leave the PAIRs valve etc in place but block the hose from the airbox then you don't need to block the vacuum hose as it's still sealed by the PAIRs valve.
That makes sense
Cheers
:cheers:
Andre, i now agree, block vac hose takes load off valve, will do that. Quiets throttle body? Not sure what you mean.
Was a little lazy there Grog and put parenthesis around "quiet" to avoid explaining ;)
Change in the negative pressure in the TB is slightly reduced/delayed by the available volume of the hose and the air cut valve up to the diaphragm. I am all for minutiae when it comes to setting up my bike. :facepalm:
I might need that air cut valve functioning in the future (Mot emission testing), so I want it to function again when time comes.
If it weren't for MOT and prying eyes during controls (they started to do big controls with cops, MOT-techs, and registration officials) I would just throw all the PAIR stuff out - BEST solution.
i probably should take it all out but no reason, bike running just perfect, dont like fixing what is not broken. yeah, being a virgo im very fussy also. just how it is. slightest noise/vibration etc just wrecks my head. i always have a head full of bike/car/golf/work/house things to improve. golf is the hardest. :rofl2:
Andre... I completely removed the pairs system some years ago and not had any issue with emissions tests so far.. including roadside tests by the powers that be here in Austria. Not sure if German testers are any stricter....
ARH, the emission test for bikes here is a joke. All they test for is CO. You fail if above 4.5 (for 14 without cat, the others I don't know). You got to have a serious issue to fail this test. A defunct PAIR shouldn't cause a failed emission test. I'll find out next MOT for sure :grin:
However, there is a small chance that you meet someone that is knowledgeable and takes a look. At MOT no big deal. Get the PAIR back in and they check it off at second visit. Still, I don't want to go in for a 2nd visit.
If cops are involved it looks different. I am not keen to find out regardless of how small the possibility that someone will actually look. Plenty of people here who ride with PAIR uninstalled. Haven't heard of one getting caught. This paranoid forum member will not be the 1st.
Luckily in the uk emissions are not tested for our m.o.t's here.
:cheers:
I understand what you mean Andre... but I reckon the cops would really need to know what they were looking for to spot that a pairs system had been removed.... even more so info the components were still in place but 'blanked' off as some have done here.
I previously asked the guy who does my mot (top bloke who was rated top mechanic in EU by Suzuki a few years ago!) who is pretty stringent with the test but said that the pairs setup was a bit of a joke.... he was happy I'd removed it :onya:
I do know some cops who know. I doubt they care to take an "official look" unless you behave like an ass. With all the components in place there is no worry at all.
And yes, the system is a bit of a joke.
@seth... we even have noise levels checked with a dB meter... :whatever:
God no not here it's down to the tester if they think it's to loud .
My akraprovic is ok my cut down Stubby is a no no .
:doh:
My tester runs ducatis with open cans, nothing is too loud :boogie:
Austrian registered bikes must conform to the vin plate... from memory that's 84db at 3200 rpm for the 14... so no chance of using loud cans....
M2 Buell with "open" V&H can used to pass mot every year!!
Quote from: ARH on Sunday, 16 September 2018, 03:49 AM
Austrian registered bikes must conform to the vin plate... from memory that's 84db at 3200 rpm for the 14... so no chance of using loud cans....
I recall someone on the old Org remaking their VIN plate to match their new exhaust.... :whistling:
[/quote]
I recall someone on the old Org remaking their VIN plate to match their new exhaust.... :whistling:
[/quote]
Ingenious......Love it :rofl2:
In fact I'm sure I've seen them on here too, it was a Black n Red with lots n lots of trick bits but I can't recall his name to find a link.
Remaking VIN plate won't help here as it's also in the registration doc.
No escape for us Andre! :whatever:
Hopeless :lol:
When I bought my K2 its cans had been completely cleaned out. They were incredibly loud. Got new ones (mint, 100€) right away, had about 1k km on them. Bought them from a cop who wanted a "better" sound, swapped them for BOS. Another cop I know had the standards modified. :happy1: He thought it over and swapped them for BOS exhaust. Exhaust manipulation can get you in lots of trouble here.
Quote from: ARH on Sunday, 16 September 2018, 05:18 AM
No escape for us Andre! :whatever:
Could see me landing in jail if I was living in your country.My bike has the stubby Delkevics with no baffles(removed by previous owner)It's more than loud.....
I am beginning to think that my modified twin silencers are pretty mellow in sound compared to some of the extreme versions I am reading about on here !!
:)
Quote from: Simonic on Sunday, 16 September 2018, 07:24 AM
Quote from: ARH on Sunday, 16 September 2018, 05:18 AM
No escape for us Andre! :whatever:
Could see me landing in jail if I was living in your country.My bike has the stubby Delkevics with no baffles(removed by previous owner)It's more than loud.....
They wouldn't throw you in jail... just your bike :rofl2:
Quote from: Hooli on Sunday, 16 September 2018, 05:02 AM
In fact I'm sure I've seen them on here too, it was a Black n Red with lots n lots of trick bits but I can't recall his name to find a link.
That was Matthew, kanerdog1x1
Thanks Blubber