Hi lads,
I've just spent a few hours this afternoon removing my exhaust system for polishing, I also unbolted the oil cooler and discovered that these bikes have a small electric fan on them !!
Having had oil cooled Gsxr's for years Ive never seen this before and to me it is not needed but said I'd better ask on here !
Do people remove these fans from their bikes??
Thanks
No, not as a rule. People say they never come on, but they do sometimes & if you need it to come on & you've taken it off, what's gonna happen then?
I guess a contributing factor is what psi is the oil being pushed through the oil cooler at ? If it's the same as a Gsxr then it can possibly be removed, the standard cooler is big enough IMO but guess it depends on the oil galleries going aroung the head and block too.
It is overheats then it will heat seize and once cools down it should be ok again imo, or else when you pull over it won't start again for a while until temp drops.
Ive had several oilcooled Suzuki's with no cooler that were fine.
However... a GSX1400 is a different motor with a different oilcooled so it's not comparing like with like. It's a similar design but not identical.
I can't remember ever hearing mine come on, and I ride in temps you will never see in the UK. I may get around to changing my oilcooler as I was going to do the hoses and the cooler is a known weak spot, from memory the after market cooler I looked at was "25% more efficient" in which case I'd consider not refitting mine either.
To the OP - the real question is why NOT refit it? Does no harm being there does it.
I asked the same question a while back as the OP.
I ran mine without the fan for around 2 months.. I also removed (and still have removed) the fan guard.
This opened up a large space around the top of the radiator for air flow...
During the heatwave in the UK I was in heavy traffic with mates and we were crawling along with feet down..
My bike smelt of hot biscuits and still no fan came on.
I did end up testing the fan actually worked by putting a paper clip across the 2 wires that go to the sensor. (It did).
I still say for those in more moderate climates that its not needed..
Our oil coolers are massive compared to other bikes I have seen with oil coolers
In over 10 years of ownership of 14's, the fan on mine only came on twice. I did consider removing it but saw no advantage, it's not as though weight saving will make a lot of difference on performance after all.
Suzuki fitted these fir a reason - not sure what reason admittedly, but for a reason. Unless you are fitting a more efficient oil cooler then I'd leave it in place for peace of mind as there is absolutely no advantage or any gain from removing it.
I am restoring an old Yamaha XS1100 and I wondered the same about that. It's an air-cooled motor, launched in the late 1970s. European models like mine were fitted with oil coolers, whereas US models were not. So Yamaha obviously thought it was fine to go cruising round Arizona without a cooler, but we'd somehow need them in the scorching heat of England.
The GSX is a bit different obviously, because it wouldn't really run without the cooler, but generally I leave it as the maker intended. I think Japanese engine designers have proved that they know what they are doing by now.
i agree Fishy, just leave it. why remove? mines never come on that i know of, how would i tell? i use ear plugs. have ridden in mid 40s temp.
Quote from: Mister Fishfinger on Monday, 13 August 2018, 06:59 PM
I think Japanese engine designers have proved that they know what they are doing by now.
Maybe. They have also got a lot of things wrong. CBX550 inboard disc's? My B-King is on it's 3rd reg/rec after 2 recalls, TL1000 rotary valve suspension? Kawasaki carb icing? GSXR frames fracturing? Suzuki's master cylinder recall? Early Busa subframe? You could write a book on the things they didn't get right.
Back to oil coolers (and following on to Fishfingers XS11 comment)..... a little different but... the Hayabusa is water cooled, but also runs an oil cooler. The first thing turbo owners do is remove the oilcooler as it's where the turbo sits. VERY few replace it. Bikes go from 180hp to 300 or more and run fine without it. Both on the street and strip. Suzuki decided it needed an oilcooler, I've ridden Busa's On the road without and they were fine. It a common mod on high horsepower turbo bikes.
Remember the cooler is only an engine oil cooler on the Busa, not a top end cooler though...
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=147699.0
The safe option is obviously to keep a cooler, but don't believe that a manufacturer always knows best. History has shown us different.
My fan has only came on a few times in very hot weather mostly in Europe while sitting in que's of traffic or very slow filtering.
I'm not sure if any other big oilcooled suzuki's have fans fitted but I'll be leaving mine fitted as I it's better to have it and not need it rather than to find it's needed and it's on a shelf in the garage .
:cheers:
Quote from: Tony Nitrous on Monday, 13 August 2018, 07:46 PM
Quote from: Mister Fishfinger on Monday, 13 August 2018, 06:59 PM
I think Japanese engine designers have proved that they know what they are doing by now.
Maybe. They have also got a lot of things wrong. CBX550 inboard disc's? My B-King is on it's 3rd reg/rec after 2 recalls, TL1000 rotary valve suspension? Kawasaki carb icing? GSXR frames fracturing? Suzuki's master cylinder recall? Early Busa subframe? You could write a book on the things they didn't get right.
Back to oil coolers (and following on to Fishfingers XS11 comment)..... a little different but... the Hayabusa is water cooled, but also runs an oil cooler. The first thing turbo owners do is remove the oilcooler as it's where the turbo sits. VERY few replace it. Bikes go from 180hp to 300 or more and run fine without it. Both on the street and strip. Suzuki decided it needed an oilcooler, I've ridden Busa's On the road without and they were fine. It a common mod on high horsepower turbo bikes.
Remember the cooler is only an engine oil cooler on the Busa, not a top end cooler though...
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=147699.0
The safe option is obviously to keep a cooler, but don't believe that a manufacturer always knows best. History has shown us different.
To be fair, only one of the examples you mentioned is an engine fault (GPZ900R carb icing), but I get your point. Nobody is perfect, as demonstrated by Honda's complete inability to get camchain tensioner design right over multiple models and years.
Perhaps the way I should have said it is that Japanese engine designers know a lot more about the issue than I do, hence I will be leaving mine where it is. I can't compare my fiddlings in a shed to the Hayabusa tuning community. There's a whole cottage industry there - and I bet that shared knowledge and folklore was acquired at the cost of a lot of broken Hayabusas. So I'm not trying to imply that a particular design can't be further improved by groups of smart people.
As an aside, if anyone is that interested in seeing whether their cooler fan comes on, it would be really easy to wire a little indicator light across the fan and mount it somewhere where you can see it. I have no idea if mine has ever activated but I guess if it's going to, then this summer would be the time to find out.
If anyone really wants to know if their fan actually comes on when the bike is hot, Fishys idea of the indicator light is good, but you can also find out by just leaving the bike to idle for a long time in the garage, like 20+ minutes. The motor is getting hot but it's got no airflow to help cool, leave it running for a while & you'll see if the fan comes on or not. When it does come on, take it out for a quiet run to help it cool down again.
That's the only time I notice mine comes on, if it did whilst riding you'd never know, so Fishys indicator light would work there.
Thanks for replies lads - my whole thinking here is I want to look at every component on the bike and see if there are easy and cheap ways to eliminate the not necessaries on the bike and save weight overall (without going the expensive road of aftermarket wheels and titanium fasteners) - It is the first time I have ever seen a fan on an oil cooler before!!
If your looking to save weight think about changing the exhaust system as that's the single heaviest easily changeable part of the bike.
An akroprovic system with a titaiunium can will save KG's over anything else you could do .the fan being plastic the weight it saves is negligible
Compared to the exhaust.
:cheers:
Seths idea will also considerably lighten your wallet as well - double bonus? :happy1:
Buts he's right on the exhaust, it's a heavy lump. :cheers:
Bargains come up my full akroprovic system with the titanium can cost me £100 2nd from a guy who put his bike back to standard to sell it.
:cheers:
After the exhaust system what are the next weight saving options? :)
I honestly think you have 2 choices - spend a load of money or buy a different bike.
For ideas on what can be done, have a look at the 'Big Heavy Wobbler' build thread.
Airbox (swop for pod filters)
Centre stand (easy to refit without springs for maintainance)
Lighter bolts and fasteners.
Then fit yoshi cams and a power commander (needed if your changing the exhaust and or removing the airbox)
You'll then have a lighter bike with around 135bhp
Have a good read through the forums loads you can do but the biggest weight saving if the exhaust.
No matter what you do it'll always be a big heavy big and never a sports bike.
Plus the faster you go the more iffy the handling gets .
:cheers:
Think Tony N may have a good used b-King avail? Wee bit more go in 1 of them.
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 14 August 2018, 05:41 AM
Bargains come up my full akroprovic system with the titanium can cost me £100 2nd from a guy who put his bike back to standard to sell it.
:cheers:
That, my friend, is a bloody steal!
Quote from: diebythereaper on Tuesday, 14 August 2018, 07:53 AM
After the exhaust system what are the next weight saving options? :)
Nothing really. The 1400 is what it is - a big bruiser muscle bike.
The easiest (and healthiest) way to save weight is to lose it from around your own guts (as I am trying to do) :)
"Adding lightness" by modding a bike is all very well in theory, but you need to start with a product as light as possible in the first instance. And it's really NOT worth the expense.
I agree with Vlad. But it is up to the owner what mods he does and if it is worth the expense to him.
A couple more things that save weight. Lithium battery, wavy brake disks.
The 14 is a great bike. You can make it lighter, you can make it more powerful. To some, this makes it a better bike.
I like easy mods, 4 into 1, no centre stand, PC111 etc.
If I'm serious about performance or weight my arse isn't going to be on a GSX1400. They are great bikes but your going to struggle against Busa's, B-Kings, GSXR's etc etc.
I am an Oldskool Oil Cooled man so not really interested in water cooled bikes , a good pilot on a well setup bike (my plan) can give all those higher powered sports bikes a real run for their money on the roads we have :)
Great replies there guys, I was wondering about the safety of Lithium ion batteries as have heard the stories and seen the damage they cause when catching fire due to high voltage charging on the bike
Wasn't aware that Wavy discs were lighter that standard so that's a good tip! :cool:
Lithium batteries also don't like the cold so could cause starting problem in winter.
Just take a dump before every ride and wear lighter leathers. Either would have more effect than loosing the fan.
Considering 14's have ceramic bores I wouldn't want one to nip up as I could see that scrapping the barrels.
If you want less weight and more performance, and your an Old Skool Oil Cooled fan, then the early GSXR11 Slabsider and Slingshots are better bikes in that field.
I've had a previous GSXR1100 and Bandit 1200, and alongside my GSX1400 I have a current GSXR1100 and Bandit 1200. I'm a big fan of the 14, I'd like another "better" one than I have, but it's not a great bike to turn more sporty. It's great for comfort, grunt, looks, stability, but it's a long way for being turned into something Sporty.
Being able to hunt down modern sportsbikes has a lot to do with the rider and little to do with the bike.
agree, had a run behind a bmw s1000r, he was scary. very inconsistent, had no idea. i had to pass. his riding gear wouldve been worth more than my bike.