Hey guys, hope you're all well.
I've just got my 14 back from the garage. I had it in for a clutch fluid replacement, but now I'm noticing that I can't seem to get neutral easily at a stop. I have to put considerable pressure on the shift lever, but it skips 1st and goes into 2nd. It seems easier to get to neutral by kicking down from 2nd, but it never used to be like this. It was always smooth.
Any idea what the issue could be? I'm going to take it back anyway, but thought i'd check here for ideas. Getting paranoid they've gone and ruined my gearbox.
Thanks!
Doesn't sound like the clutch is fully releasing, maybe not properly bled or assembled quite right. I'd doubt it's the gearbox.
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 10:15 PM
Doesn't sound like the clutch is fully releasing, maybe not properly bled or assembled quite right. I'd doubt it's the gearbox.
Hi Hooli, thanks so much for the comment.
Is there a way I could test this? Perhaps shutting the bike off, putting it in 1st and trying to move it with the clutch held in to check for resistance?
I'll let you guys know what happens when I take it back.
Not saying its normal but mines a bit that way..
I can lessen it by altering the span of the clutch lever...
if you set it so it bites further out then when you pull it in its released to a greater extent.
In my case I think my clutch is dragging a bit..
Ultimately I will disassemble it and renew bits if needed..
sounds a good idea to put bike on centre stand and see how much resistance the wheel needs to be turned with it in gear and clutch lever pulled in..
Having said that I couldn't tell you what "normal" should feel like.
Quote from: DanGSX on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 10:31 PM
Quote from: Hooli on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 10:15 PM
Doesn't sound like the clutch is fully releasing, maybe not properly bled or assembled quite right. I'd doubt it's the gearbox.
Hi Hooli, thanks so much for the comment.
Is there a way I could test this? Perhaps shutting the bike off, putting it in 1st and trying to move it with the clutch held in to check for resistance?
I'll let you guys know what happens when I take it back.
You could try that but unless you know how it normally feels it might not help much as I know mine seems to drag in that situation but works fine with the engine running.
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 10:43 PM
Not saying its normal but mines a bit that way..
I can lessen it by altering the span of the clutch lever...
if you set it so it bites further out then when you pull it in its released to a greater extent.
In my case I think my clutch is dragging a bit..
Ultimately I will disassemble it and renew bits if needed..
sounds a good idea to put bike on centre stand and see how much resistance the wheel needs to be turned with it in gear and clutch lever pulled in..
Having said that I couldn't tell you what "normal" should feel like.
Hi Speedy, thanks for the reply.
I tend to find the particular mechanic I go to sets the clutch lever travel to number 4. I don't like this, as my hands are bigger, so I set mine to 1. Don't like getting the bite point almost immediately.
I gave them a call, but the mech isn't in at the moment, so said i'll get a call back at some point. In the meantime, i'll just have to deal with it, but hope it's nothing too serious.
As
@Hooli says sounds like it's not bled properly and not fully disengaging .
I have a welding C clamp I lock the clutch piston fully on bleed it then release everything and test it all works ok so your not trying to bleed against the clutch springs.
:cheers:
Quote from: seth on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 11:11 PM
As @Hooli says sounds like it's not bled properly and not fully disengaging .
I have a welding C clamp I lock the clutch piston fully on bleed it then release everything and test it all works ok so your not trying to bleed against the clutch springs.
:cheers:
To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if this was the case. Sounds like I need to push for them to re-do the work.
Would it cause any damage to my gearbox or anything related if I were to continue using it? When riding, everything feels fine and gears shift smoothly. It's only when I come to a stop that I get issues with neutral.
Like others said, it probably hasn't been bled properly (if the mechanic only changed the fluid).
As for testing for clutch drag, I put the bike on main stand, with running engine at idle, put it in gear. Pull the clutch lever and apply light pressure to the rear brake pedal. The wheel should stop spinning. If you need to exert strong pressure on the pedal to stop the wheel, your clutch is dragging.
I doubt you will damage the gear box but personally I wouldn't ride it much, except to get it to the mechanic (there are those who shift up without pulling the clutch lever).
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 31 July 2018, 11:32 PM
Like others said, it probably hasn't been bled properly (if the mechanic only changed the fluid).
As for testing for clutch drag, I put the bike on main stand, with running engine at idle, put it in gear. Pull the clutch lever and apply light pressure to the rear brake pedal. The wheel should stop spinning. If you need to exert strong pressure on the pedal to stop the wheel, your clutch is dragging.
I doubt you will damage the gear box but personally I wouldn't ride it much, except to get it to the mechanic (there are those who shift up without pulling the clutch lever).
Thanks Andre!
I'm going to head over after work. Not happy, so i'm leaving it with them until it's put right.
They did say the Slave cylinder has a slight leak and needs an 'overhaul' So not sure if this could be related, however I didn't have these issues when taking it in, so...
If the slave cylinder has a leak then that'll be the cause of your problems
:cheers:
Quote from: seth on Wednesday, 01 August 2018, 01:09 AM
If the slave cylinder has a leak then that'll be the cause of your problems
:cheers:
Before I took the bike in, I noticed the fluid level through the sight glass had fallen slightly over a few months, but not enough for it to fall below minimum. Still, everything worked perfectly, including shifting into neutral. So I'd assume the leak wasn't causing any problems at that point?
Makes me wonder - why now?
I do notice the fluid is two-tone through the sight glass. The upper half more clear, but looks like a dark murky fluid coming up from the lines in the bottom half of the sight glass.
Sounds like the reservoir needed cleaning out then but they didn't bother.
As Seth said a leak at the slave will cause it, air will be getting in & stopping it moving properly. It's probably got worse as the dirt in there has been disturbed & has caused the leak to get worse. My slave was dribbling for a bit, I stripped it down & put it back with all the same bits (just clean) and having scraped crusty deposits off the bore, works fine now.
If you've got two-tone fluid it hasn't been bled properly. If you are changing the fluid you have to change all of it, after which it should have a nice clear appearance in the window.
One of the (few) failings of these bikes is that the slave cylinder doesn't have a rubber boot over it to protect the actuator. This means that over time, chain grease and road dirt gradually gets drawn into the cylinder each time you operate the clutch. This is what causes the fluid to turn black.
It can also cause the slave cylinder to weep fluid because the crud gets into the seal. When I got my bike it suffered both problems (black fluid and leaking slave). Fortunately there's an easy fix (documented on this site) - other Suzuki models do have the protective boot and it fits right on with no mods.
It certainly fixed the issue for me. Stripped and cleaned the slave cylinder, fitted a new seal and boot, bled the system, no problems since.
A competent mechanic should be able to do this for you, no problem. The parts are cheap and easy to get as well.
[Edit] - here's the link: http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=259.0
Once again the forum is a goldmine of useful stuff.
Guys, once again thanks so much for your insights.
I left the bike with the garage yesterday and they said they'd take another look and thought it may be trapped air. I got the talk about switching into neutral before coming to a stop etc.
However, I am going to take the advice given here and purchase the slave boot for when the slave gets overhauled. Preventative maintenance is always good.
I do have a scottoiler fitted and it makes quite a mess to be honest. Perhaps some of this oil is getting in.
I've got a scotoiler too & you're right about the mess.
On mine eventually the gunge that builds up from the oil & road grit had filled the space in front of the slave's piston and the cover/pushrod guide. However That was making my clutch slip as it jammed everything up. Took 100k & 10 years of neglect to do it though.
Quote from: Hooli on Wednesday, 01 August 2018, 10:29 PM
I've got a scotoiler too & you're right about the mess.
On mine eventually the gunge that builds up from the oil & road grit had filled the space in front of the slave's piston and the cover/pushrod guide. However That was making my clutch slip as it jammed everything up. Took 100k & 10 years of neglect to do it though.
Bloody hell, 100k? That's good going. Do you think the build up did any lasting damage to the bike?
Mine is so bad, that the chain oil is dripping from the chain guard onto my swingarm. Really should get in there and clean it all.
Just got off the phone to the garage now. They said the leak has got worse and they're going to fit new seals, so I got them to order the additional hayabusa seal as advised here, so hoping all will be good!
Cheers!
It's almost at 120k now, it'll get there friday on the ride to the ferry.
I've not even changed the seals to fix mine. Just cleaned them & scraped the crud that'd dried hard in the bore. All the crud did was stop the piston moving properly so it might have caused a bit of clutch wear where it slipped but that's all.
Hey guys,
Quick update.
Got the bike back on Saturday after they replaced the seals in the slave and cleaned it all up. They also installed the additional one for me, as recommended here.
Clutch now feels more positive. The lever itself is less spongey and has a bit more toughness to it. Bite point is also further out now than I remember it, but I suppose that's to be expected. As for shifting into neutral, it's now smooth again. Probably better than it has been since I got the bike actually.
Thanks for all the responses. Seems it was indeed the slave after all - Didn't realise a small leak could cause that.
Great news. Now you just need to get out in the great weather and enjoy it.
Excellent!
Hi guys need a little help changed out the engine of my 05 for an 07 changed the clutch hose for a hel one now I can see the push rod move but when I put it in gear it just runs the clutch has no effect on it it won't stop it I am doing this while it's on the Center stand any help please would be greatly appreciated also I am certain the air is all out of the line
Cheers
Push the cluth slave cylinder in then put a cable tie on it so it can't move out ( i use a pair of welding molegrips as they ooen really wide and dont damage the clutch slave cylinder)then rebleed it .
The clutch can be a nightmare to bleed in place as your trying to bleed it while also pushing against the clutch springs .
Good luck
:cheers:
Quote from: Ericare on Saturday, 29 September 2018, 11:46 PM
Hi guys need a little help changed out the engine of my 05 for an 07 changed the clutch hose for a hel one now I can see the push rod move but when I put it in gear it just runs the clutch has no effect on it it won't stop it I am doing this while it's on the Center stand any help please would be greatly appreciated also I am certain the air is all out of the line
Cheers
Hi, if you're sure all the air is out of the system & you can see the push rod moving & still not releasing the clutch, there's either a problem with the clutch basket (gummed / sticky plates) or the slave cyl / push rod is mounted incorrectly. The travel of the rod is very small so it wouldn't take much for it not to operate correctly.
Check the mounting of the slave, make sure it's seated in the correct position. Check the rod is located correctly. Rod length? couldn't have mixed the rod with something else in the shed? If all these are good, it's got to be in the basket somewhere, which is what I'm picking - being a swap motor n all, prob been sat around for a while.
Someone else had similar issue as this, think they put fresh oil? or ran it on the stand till it warmed up n kept activating the clutch. They got it in the end, was sticky / gummed up in the basket.