I'm normally good at keeping on top of the maintenance of my motorcycles but stupidly I've ridden my gsx 13,000 miles in the last 4-5 months and only really keep the trip meter on trip 1. The other day I checked the ODO and it's at 20,000 miles (had 7,000 on the clock when I've brought it). I have changed the spark plugs in that time only because it kept hesitating, I guess is the only way to explain it. But have neglected to do an oil change and according to the manual it should have had 3 by now. Trouble is it's my only vehicle as I don't have a car licence and been meaning to do an oil change for ages but weather has been crap until the last few days and with no garage I have to rely on weather being partially decent. Did want to do it today as it's a nice day for a change but my oil filter wrench adapter tool has gone walkies so won't be able to get the old one off easily.
Just wondering if it's likely to have caused any damage to the engine?
you may not have done any immediate damage but could have worn parts in the engine that will eventually deteriorate prematurely - if I was you I would get the engine flushed out and then a decent oil and the filters changed as soon as possible
hopefully you will have got away with it
I assume that you would have noticed damage.
More likely there is a chance of more than normal wear. Get that oil and filter changed quickly. In fact do 2 oil changes. 1st change as an engine flush (no need for special oil cleaner as motor oil is a great cleaner). Then go for a short run until the engine is at a good operating temperature. Change the oil again, this time with filter.
Look if you see metal shavings in the oil (magnetic sump plug?).
This would also be a good time to check valve play.
Actually it is time to do ALL the bike maintenance items now. You probably know that but I feel impelled to mention it.
As said justv change the oil and filter asap then maybe do another in 2000 miles and hopefully everything will be ok keep an eye the sump plug magnet .
:onya:
I agree with Andre, I'd do 2 changes in quick succession. Reason being you don't get all the old oil out by just undoing the sump bung, some stays in there. The quick change gets the rest of the old oil diluted with the new & 90% of it will come out in the next change.
You really don't want any of that oil that's done 20,000 miles left in there.
The other way is to take the oil cooler off & drain that as well.
If the old oil is like gloop then one of the best ways I have cleared all the galleries is this way (not for the faint hearted) & Ive not done this on a bike only car engines
its not the cheapest way to clean and engine but it has worked for me (as said car engines not bikes)
What you will need
2 x 5 litre tubs of oil
2 oil filters
2 litres of diesel
how to
remove the plugs
drain some of the oil and add diesel (as much as you dare)
turn the engine over for about 30 second - let it all settle and repeat a few times (don't do all at once you may damage starter motor)
drain oil/diesel try to leave as long as possible to get as much out as possible
remove oil filter
new filter
add oil
replace plugs
start engine and let it warm up
drain oil & remove filter
New filter
add oil
it will be as clean as it left the factory
Ive done this on a few cars that were not very well maintained and they all ran sweet as - in fact I once had a 1.8cvh sierra and it ran like a pig - I made a mistake and added a few litres of diesel instead of petrol so I filled to the brim with super unleaded and ran filling it every day (was a little bit smokey but it cleared) - 300 hundred miles or so I changed the oil & filter (just in case any of the fuel had worked its way into the oil) and the car never ran better in its life
Diesel is a great cleaner
Sounds a good flushing system for a car engine, what about the clutch plates? ya reckon they'd be ok with the diesel? Everything else would be.
never thought of that Col :confused1: and glad now I put up only did on car engines
I imagine that the clutch plates wouldn't be that affected as the oil/diesel mixture would be in there that long and then flushed with new oil and if your at the point your bike engine oil is that bad then anything to clean them a little cant be that bad
@KiwiCol
If your engine were so mightily glooped up that you feel the need for this method then replacing the clutch's drive plate corks (EBC kit to be had for 68€ here) would be the lesser evil compared to a total tear down of the engine to clean/rebuild.
Mineral or vegetable oil? some would say vegetable oil will go 10K before changing.
If it is mineral, and you'll never know as you didn't change it when you purchased it, you have probably done irrevocable damage!! :devil:
These engine are pretty tough so its all about mileage and the environment you have kept the bike in- do what the others have said - you should be fine!
:boogie:Stan
Youll be right mate. Not the end of the world. Get engine flush or as stated diesel. Have a few times on car motors flished with diesel. Drain crap thats in there, add new oil with about 1 litre of diesel. Run for a while, 10 mins or so. Idling. Drain again, new filter & oil. Job done. Diesel is oil, wont do any harm. Have seen really dirty motors come clean.
Is diesel capable of lubing the engine sufficiently? Ik it's still oil just didn't know if it's as safe to use as regular engine oil though guess you don't run the engine for long with the diesel in it?
Don't use diesel to flush - not sure what that would do to your clutch plates!
In all honesty your best bet is to change the oil and filter (run the engine for a couple of mins to warm the oil through first), run that for about 500 miles and then do exactly the same again.
As I said before and what gsxbarmy just said change your oil and filter then change again after a few miles 500 is just fine then go back to 4500mile oil changes .
The bike will be fine .
I wouldn't be putting anything other than proper motorcycle oil in my bike EVER .
:frustrated:
Quote from: seth on Monday, 09 April 2018, 02:50 AM
As I said before and what gsxbarmy just said change your oil and filter then change again after a few miles 500 is just fine then go back to 4500mile oil changes .
The bike will be fine .
I wouldn't be putting anything other than proper motorcycle oil in my bike EVER .
:frustrated:
That from me too.
Quote from: mikesaa309 on Sunday, 08 April 2018, 11:34 PM
Is diesel capable of lubing the engine sufficiently? Ik it's still oil just didn't know if it's as safe to use as regular engine oil though guess you don't run the engine for long with the diesel in it?
Diesel, like engine flush, will degrade your motor oil and makes it less capable of lubing. That is why you should only warm up the engine in idle for 10 minutes before draining when using either method!
Use proper motoroil for the cleaning as I said previously. I wouldn't use diesel/flush unless your oil is gloopy like this:
Tut Tut...
No Gloves !!
The gloves probably melted....
FFS don't stick diesel in it.. Never mind the clutch plates, the engine internal seals aren't manufactured from a material designed to cope with that fluid and WILL degrade. I'm not saying they will fail, but rubber goes brittle when exposed to chemicals outwith what they are designed for :frustrated:
If you'd check you will find petrol in your oil. In a diesel engine you'll find diesel in the oil. Drive only short distances that goes to 15+%. Due to blow-by. Not a good thing, but also not catastrophic. That's why you should change your oil more frequently than is suggested for "normal" driving. Ester-based oils, very good and very expensive, do more damage to your seals than petrol/diesel in your oil. Unless, which of cause they do, additives to combat this (to a degree!) are added by the oil manufacturer.
Just in a side note the low mileage between oil changes is due to the barrels not having metal liners and changing more often protects the barrel linings better.
The engine can do 8000 mile oil changes without a problem :frustrated:
the barrels may get damaged/scratched if the oil not changed sooner but might be ok and that's why Suzuki put the 4500 mile oil changes for the bike :frustrated: .
:cheers:
I would never put anything except the properly rated oil in an engine.
For what it's worth, my neighbour has a 2006 VW Polo which I remember him buying new. I also remember him telling me he takes it to be serviced by some mate/mechanic who is of course much cheaper than a main dealer. This guy apparently likes to flush out the old oil by adding paraffin (kerosene), warming it through, draining and refilling with new oil.
This car now sounds like two skeletons shagging in a dustbin. Just saying.
If you feel the need to flush out contaminants, just change the oil twice.
As for vegetable oil, don't even think about it. There was a time when Castrol R was the best oil you could get for race engines - the name "Castrol" comes from "castor oil", which as the name suggests is made from castor beans. The big problem with vegetable-based oils is that they leave gummy deposits that are incredibly hard to clean off. This is fine for race engines because they are regularly stripped, cleaned and rebuilt, but it's not good for road engines and it's the main reason why road vehicles have traditionally used mineral and later synthetic oils.
Nowadays synthetic oils are far better in most respects, so nobody uses 'R' except in classic racing. It does smell nice though.
Quote from: Andre on Monday, 09 April 2018, 05:51 PM
If you'd check you will find petrol in your oil. In a diesel engine you'll find diesel in the oil. Drive only short distances that goes to 15+%. Due to blow-by. Not a good thing, but also not catastrophic. That's why you should change your oil more frequently than is suggested for "normal" driving. Ester-based oils, very good and very expensive, do more damage to your seals than petrol/diesel in your oil. Unless, which of cause they do, additives to combat this (to a degree!) are added by the oil manufacturer.
Agreed, but I don't recall Suzuki ever producing a diesel GSX :whistling:. Not having access to the material spec of the seals, I wouldn't be in a place to confirm they are diesel resistant as not all rubber resists the same chemicals, therefore I wouldn't take the risk. It's your engine though.
Working with hydraulics for the last 20 years, I've seen broken down seals in fluid due to the wrong type of oil being used, never mind other fluids.
a motor full of sludge is already in a bad way. it needs to be cleaned out. motors in cars with hydraulic lifters are worst. they jam up, hold valves open, no compression. a bike motor with sludge also needs a clean out. do we know how sludged one in case is? no. it needs a flush if owner thinks its foamy, like gear oil, whatever. its owner neglect. clutch is only diff. to a car motor. clutch already coated in crap if sludged up. diesel wont affect seals. all common rail diesels have diesel by pass into lubricating oil, they cant fix it. diesel injected is such high pressure it just happens. no the seals dont leak, oil just needs to be changed. mazda will even do it for free on certain models, check the oil, its overfull, because diesel has leaked into oil. engine flush is kerosene, just branded as flush. yeah, a couple of oil changes is a great idea. if its really dirty, my way works. done it heaps of times, thats the industry i work in. if the clutch slips after, so be it. was already ruined by lack of maintenance. replace the clutch. after that, motor is clean, clutch will be new, just maintain it then. if clutch still ok, think it will be, a great result.
Its funny that the original post only asked if there might be damage. Its only 13K miles so unless it ran out of oil then it's safe to say no. Where did this sludge filled nightmare come from anyway. You'll scare the poor guy into paying a fortune for new engine parts. :rolleyes:
As I said before, just change the oil and filter and try not to forget next time. No drama.
I agree with you Lloyd, I know of someone who changes his oil, car and bike at 12k with no issues at all.
Quote from: seth on Monday, 09 April 2018, 06:45 PM
Just in a side note the low mileage between oil changes is due to the barrels not having metal liners and changing more often protects the barrel linings better.
The engine can do 8000 mile oil changes without a problem :frustrated:
the barrels may get damaged/scratched if the oil not changed sooner but might be ok and that's why Suzuki put the 4500 mile oil changes for the bike :frustrated: .
:cheers:
I thought the reason was being air cooled the oil broke down quicker than in liquid cooled engines.
Live n learn etc.
Quote from: Hooli on Monday, 09 April 2018, 09:36 PM
Quote from: seth on Monday, 09 April 2018, 06:45 PM
Just in a side note the low mileage between oil changes is due to the barrels not having metal liners and changing more often protects the barrel linings better.
The engine can do 8000 mile oil changes without a problem :frustrated:
the barrels may get damaged/scratched if the oil not changed sooner but might be ok and that's why Suzuki put the 4500 mile oil changes for the bike :frustrated: .
:cheers:
I thought the reason was being air cooled the oil broke down quicker than in liquid cooled engines.
Live n learn etc.
Being air cooled is one factor, also the fact that bike engines share their oil between engine and gearbox (car engines generally don't). Gearboxes do nasty things to oil, they break up the long chain molecules that give engine oil its protective properties. That's one of the reasons bikes have shorter oil change intervals than cars.
Most modern new bikes have around 8000 mile service intervals and they use the same oil in the gearbox but as you say that's much shorter service intervals than modern car engines that don't use engine oil in the gearbox .
The engine the gsx1400 is developed from the oil cooler gsxr1100 had longer service intervals than the gsx1400 but also had steal barrels.
I was told that bikes like the gsx1400.xjr1300.cb1300 that use ceramics to coat the barrels to get the larger capacity, need shorter service intervals due to the way things wear over time with longer service intervals and dirty oil.
I could be totally wrong but I was told this by a long standing Suzuki mechanic and it sounds right to me.
:cheers:
Quote from: lloydjames on Monday, 09 April 2018, 07:33 PM
Its funny that the original post only asked if there might be damage. Its only 13K miles so unless it ran out of oil then it's safe to say no. Where did this sludge filled nightmare come from anyway. You'll scare the poor guy into paying a fortune for new engine parts. :rolleyes:
As I said before, just change the oil and filter and try not to forget next time. No drama.
Nothing funny about it. You mention oil and you get the same mix as if you mentioned religion or politics. :popcorn:
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 10 April 2018, 04:35 AM
Quote from: lloydjames on Monday, 09 April 2018, 07:33 PM
Its funny that the original post only asked if there might be damage. Its only 13K miles so unless it ran out of oil then it's safe to say no. Where did this sludge filled nightmare come from anyway. You'll scare the poor guy into paying a fortune for new engine parts. :rolleyes:
As I said before, just change the oil and filter and try not to forget next time. No drama.
Nothing funny about it. You mention oil and you get the same mix as if you mentioned religion or politics. :popcorn:
Or tyres :rofl2:
Quote from: ARH on Tuesday, 10 April 2018, 05:16 AM
Quote from: Andre on Tuesday, 10 April 2018, 04:35 AM
Quote from: lloydjames on Monday, 09 April 2018, 07:33 PM
Its funny that the original post only asked if there might be damage. Its only 13K miles so unless it ran out of oil then it's safe to say no. Where did this sludge filled nightmare come from anyway. You'll scare the poor guy into paying a fortune for new engine parts. :rolleyes:
As I said before, just change the oil and filter and try not to forget next time. No drama.
Nothing funny about it. You mention oil and you get the same mix as if you mentioned religion or politics. :popcorn:
Or tyres :rofl2:
:clapping:
If the engine has suffered any damage then changing the oil trice and or mixing it with diesel (or any other wonder cleaner) is not going to make any difference the damage has already happened. However if the bike is not smoking or pumping oil into the airbox and is running fine just change the oil and filter and make sure you remember next time, I personally think you should be okay, significant damage to the barrels would have had you topping up the oil long before now.