not a bike thing but i hope informative. my 2016 2.4 diesel hilux. just clicked 60 th ks in under 2 yrs. has dpf fitted to comply with latest euro standards. brilliant ute, best seats, display, superb handling.my best ute ever. problem is it blows smoke, lots of smoke. a kawa 500 looks perfect compared to it. have had phone calls telling boss about it. is really bad, even smells bad. has had 3 dpf filters fitted under wrty, 14g each, software upgrades, no difference. alternator has noise, nearly seized, new one arrives tomorrow, 9 weeks. mates v8 cruiser has same prob, 15 week wait for 8 new injectors &dpf. that cost is 21g, cruiser has just clicked over 20k. hilux is australias biggest seller. all sounds like fairy story but isnt. what happens after wrty. my ute has to go another 4 yrs. rock and hard place. 2g will remove dpf, re flash, makes it illegal if anyone finds out. my only choice i think, take the gamble.
DPF....14 k each. What are they. As you know l have 3ltr TD Hiace van. Come across any probs with them ?
depends on model mr Fruit. does it have a dpf, if not just perfect.
When it's smoking, is it doing a 'burn off' in the filter? Burning off excess soot gathered by the filter, I know Merc has that in their diesels. I recall reading it in the handbook, says it injects a richer mixture to allow the thing to be 'burned off' & thus clean again.
My motor also complies with Euro 6 standard...but uses adblue to help reduce emissions... its a pain to have to top up the system every 10k, but it works... very small amounts of the usual smokey stuff! Is adblue also used in upsidedownland?
Yep, we have it down under. I've no experience of it myself though.
Grog, is the bore glazed? Had a brand new Mitsi truck a few years ago, all great until the first service. It started smoking straight after, thought it'd settle down, nope, that truck always smoked after that. I think the rings hadn't bedded in properly & once the running in oil was taken out & normal oil put it, no more bedding in & it continues to smoke to this day - albeit a heavier now.
Toyota is pulling out of the diesel business. This is from 2016: https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104967_toyota-seeks-to-stop-investing-in-diesel-engines-altogther-exec (https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1104967_toyota-seeks-to-stop-investing-in-diesel-engines-altogther-exec)
This from Martch 2018: http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/toyota-to-stop-selling-diesel-cars-in-europe (http://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/toyota-to-stop-selling-diesel-cars-in-europe)
One wonders when they started to cut budget on diesel R&D, etc.
Problem is dpf burning off, it can go for days. I wish it had AdBlue, that works perfectly. Only answer seems to be for me to do a forced burn off every week. Plug in scan tool which has burn function, a waste of between 20 & 60 minutes each time. Uses stacks of fuel, best is 13.7l/ 100k. Wish id bought a petrol, my last Hilux was, did 200 th ks trouble free. Today was my 7th trip back to dealer. 4 hrs req to replace alternator, imagine how long to do a motor
Grog there is a thread on a hunting forum I'm on about the dpf issues.I'll have a dig later and see if I can find anything useful for you.
looking fwd to that Vlad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaW1XFxgrOM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bOlDFFhuPM
An intersting comment from the first video.....
John, you may find this interesting. Currently employed as a Mechanical Engineer with a mining contractor with a fleet of over 200 current model mining spec Toyota Hiluxs in various body configurations depending on the individual mines policy. After ongoing issues with the DPF, which resulted in multiple vehicles being banned from site due to excessive exhaust fuming, I was requested to investigate this ongiong occurrence. After 4 months of inhouse investigations the conclusion was reached unanimously that the position and angle of the 5th injector, along with highly turbulence and unregulated gas flow, was the issue. Simply, impurities were severely restricting or blocking the injector and/ or injector port, or worse case scenario, simply jamming the injector open, and the ECU failing to recognize the subsequent issue just defaulted into limphome. Our final report was supplied to Toyota but no further action has been taken. But, we did receive an interesting gift in the post from Toyota....A defeat box that plugs into the DPF loom and instructions on how to remove the DPF from the vehicle !!!!. The Electrical Engineers have now replicated the circuitry, understand how it defeats the system and applied to all the Toyota Hiluxs on the site I work on. The circuitry is also flexable enough to defeat other brands of vehicles that employ similar systems. Understandably not ideal under any circumstances but the DPF issue has been overcome somewhat. Again great info, great vid. Look forward to the next.👍👍
and posts from the other forum I'm on -
QuoteOur Isuzu trucks at work have these Satanic tools of bastardry on them and 1 in particular is having some real problems in that it'll show up as wanting to do a burn but won't but then it will sometimes go into Limp mode meaning that it'll do 80kph and that's it.
So out comes the mechanic plugs in the computer clears the fault code and we're off again and everything is hunky dory till next time. :facepalm:
Given the advances in technology and engine design with better pistons and rings and cylinder head design 1 would think that especially with the design of the piston head to promote better swirling of the air/fuel mixture and the improvement of injectors and head design with this common rail stuff that injects fuel a couple of times a second with a computer and sensors telling the computer how much fuel is required to do so in the compression stroke that emissions would be down in any case........you would think.
Add to this a better free flowing exhaust system(read extractors) and then all of a sudden you have an engine that is breathing more freely and running well increasing better fuel economy which would mean that there's less emissions because there's a better use of the fuel to promote performance or so I was led to believe when I was a mechanic.
So now we add an EGR system that basically adds exhaust gas to a fresh fuel charge that is now contaminated with particles of soot and fuck knows what ever else shit which now reduces the 100% clean charge of fuel and air to the system to something like say 90% of fresh fuel and 10% contaminates which now obviously reduces fuel economy and power and which somewhere down the track kills the engine with gunk which now needs to be cleaned out every 50k for instance and the engine goes into limp mode which is really great out in the middle of bumfuck city 1000klms from humanity if it isn't done according to the manufacturer.
There's just too many sensors and other shit on engines these days and while they may be decreasing emissions(maybe) they're also killing engines and I reckon in the next 20 years or so engines will be a over the shoulder not repairable throw a new engine in and go job. Mechanics will become more so a fitter and that'll be it and the old engine will be either sent back to the manufacturer or crushed and recycled.
QuotePut it in perspective - my 2.8 has over 100,000km and no real issue apart for white smoke on the burn cycle, this indicating the injector is stuck on - toyota will remap the system on Tuesday and long-term they said they will recall and fix.
QuoteThey are insanely expensive {to fix) mate.....especially in OEM form from the stealership. Most DPF systems these days work OK actually, the Toyota problem being talked about here is a design issue that requires re-engineering to fix. But all DPF systems require that the DPF reach a temperature of around 600 degrees C to allow regeneration to occur. If you mostly drive in the country you will probably never even see a forced regen....passive regen occurs as a byproduct of driving at a decent speed in the country. If on the other hand you mostly commute in the city or run down the local shop a few k's down the road......you will have issues as the DPF will never reach anywhere near the temperature required for the system to work. You are then forced to rely on the vehicle's smarts to initiate and successfully complete a forced regen...these can be problematic, especially if not allowed to complete the cycle.
Thanks Vlad. Im certainly not the only one then. Id love one of those by pass looms he talks about. I just worked out that its used 3000 litres of fuel more than it shouldve. 21 months. Around $4500. Best fuel, has a screen readout, 13.7l/100ks. 20 mpg. Shouldve bought a v8.
I watched the Vid, man that guy John Cadogan is great! Watched his various clips for hours last night, literally hours. A lot of good info in them & he has a fantastic in depth knowledge about 'all things' automotive. Loved it.
Yeah the general consensus around the whole modern diesel thing is 'buy a petrol instead'. It's a shame because here in Aus the extra range generally afforded by a diesel can be VERY useful.
But DPF and AdBlue are simply (or rather, complex) ways of making diesels 'cleaner'. Even then I doubt they are better, probably less soot is all.
Either way I'll happily stick with my old 1995 direct injection Land Rover :)
Is it Carbon Neutral Vlad......or is it running? :stir:
Quote from: grog on Monday, 02 April 2018, 04:54 PM
Thanks Vlad. Im certainly not the only one then. Id love one of those by pass looms he talks about. I just worked out that its used 3000 litres of fuel more than it shouldve. 21 months. Around $4500. Best fuel, has a screen readout, 13.7l/100ks. 20 mpg. Shouldve bought a v8.
FYI: 13.7 is about what my ML320 does around town. When I'm on the open rd (& I'm driving not the Mrs) I can get it down to about 10.7 - 11.5. Towing the boat it's doing around 17 - 18l / 100k. Thirstiest car I ever had was a SS Crewman, that towing was using 22L/100 - doing the same speed as the wee ML. Just a thirsty car.
My Defender uses 10.5l of diesel / 100km.
(not much different in fuel economy empty or loaded with a literal ton either, just slower)
The thirstiest car I've owned was a 3.9l V8 long wheelbase 1994 Range Rover.
Around town it used about 23l/100km. Highway was much better around 14.
On sand it soared above 30 ! Couldn't get far on a tank then....
Thirstiest car I had was my Mitsubishi Evo X - driven very carefully (not often) in drive mode 23/24mpg, else (if not carefully) 20-21mpg. Drop it into Sport mode and that came down to 17-19mpg. Drop it into Supersport (track) mode and we were talking less than 10mpg. Worst I had was after a track day when I came close to empty (having started with a full tank) after just 55 miles in HMG (supersport) mode.
But did she fly and handle in SS mode - oh yes!
That's a great experience Dave, you've had it, used it & loved it. But it's not something you want every day. You've had the buzz & you'll always remember it. Awesome.
once built a ZA fairlane, 1967, fitted a 351 windsor motor, canadian ford. motor was out of a speedway car. just over 400bhp, was a lot in 1975. 6mpg. mates n me used to pool money for a nights worth of petrol. could go really well. . i cracked a piston, fitted a stock 302, until i drove another 302 i thought i had a dud. no power. 160ks on 72 litres with big motor.
my ute back to Toyota today. needs another DPF. thats the 4th one in 60th ks. 14g each. great car you think. i hate the bloody thing.
Thats shocking. What causes it ? How the hell do they cost 14 grand......??
Kiwi, all about pollution control. this thing blows so much smoke. i get abused at lights, my clothes stink, really bad. makes me cough. they dont have an answer. only 11 months of warranty left, what happens then. toyota left me out to dry. has to last until 6 yrs old. ill have to pay to by pass dpf, ute is then illegal. sign a form to say for off road use only. if i get caught its 11g fine. i tossed up between isuzu and hilux, time over, my choice you can guess.
Sell the thing as soon as the new filter goes in. best way around it.
Sell it back to Toyota. It's under warranty and they obviously can't fix the problem.
Do what some have done in the UK. If they can't fix it, then demand a new engine be installed, as clearly there is something wrong (unless its a design fault, in which case sell the thing)
Is it yours Grog or does it belong to your work?
my work truck, glad its not mine. back in tomorrow for 4th dpf. next week are replacing whole timing chain stuff, tensioners etc. what a piece of crap. bet toyota wish theyd designed it not out sourced to bmw. great ute except for motor.