GSX1400 Owners .org

Technically Speaking => Chains & Sprockets => Topic started by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 04:44 AM

Title: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 04:44 AM
I finished work early today so I thought Oooh goody I have some daylight to play with.
I had the hare brained idea that I could at least start the process of replacing the sprockets ready for the swing arm and chain replacement over the weekend..

I removed the sprocket cover and clutch slave cylinder and saw the beast...
A neighbour who is a biker happened to be around and so I asked him to apply the rear brake firmly whilst I got the breaker bar into action..
Absolutely no way did it move.. In fact I nearly toppled the bike off its centre stand (quite literally!)

I applied heat from a blow torch.. As much as I dare as I didnt want to knacker the oil seal !
I did it enough so that the GT85 I sprayed onto it sizzled and evaporated instantly.
Not even this worked ..
I am not willing to risk wrecking something in the gearbox to remove a sprocket that in my opinion is NOT desperately in need of replacement.
I shall content myself to a chain and a rear sprocket...
One day when I am next in need of a chain I shall leave it with the dealer to have "fun" with!

I have attached a photo.. The teeth are pretty good in my opinion.

Out of interest how hot could I safely heat it to?
I suspect the previous owner has used something like loctite permanent..
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:02 AM
They are on to a mega high torque you need a air or powered gun like tyre places have to get it off.
I have a powered one I use.

Also remove the allen bolt holding the Speedo drive before trying to remove the nut.

I've seen folk use a scaffold tube on a breaker bar with a good bit of timber in the rear wheel locked against the swingarm to stop it spinning but it's not really the way to do it .saying that if it works then sometimes you need to do things like that.
Just be very careful of both damaging anything (lots old towels around any wood) and snapping the breaker bar .

:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Andre on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:04 AM
I assume you are talking about the speed sensor rotor as that is still in place according to pic. Right?

Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:07 AM
Hi Andre..
That photo was taken just before i had removed the speed sensor.
Its the actual nut (32mm) I cannot remove..

I think I need to "pop" round to Seths place to let him use his machine gun !!!
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:12 AM
If you were closer it would be off in seconds
I've no idea why front sprocket nuts have to be so tight on modern bikes .my old gs1000 had 2x6mm bolts holding it on .
As there is no lateral load on the sprocket it's strange but they do come lose if not tightened to the full torque .
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:15 AM
Thanks Seth..
Sounds like a right pallarva..
But as always I thank you for your advice mate.

S.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Andre on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:22 AM
Then the "machine gun" option is best. BTW it's called an "impact driver".

You could imitate that action by hitting the nut with a smaller socket first. If you are lucky that loosens some of the corrosion. Get a 3rd person to sit on the bike.

There should be a garage that will let you bring your parts and just charge you for the work.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:59 AM
Think l would be using some quality penetrating oil applied over a few days before giving it the impact gun. When using heat, think of the oil seal on the other side of the sprocket.
As a word of warning and coming from someone who has lost plenty of bark in the past. Consider your flesh should anything slip or break. Leather gloves at the very least could well be your friend.
Put new sprockets on it. Your new chain will be pleased you did.  :onya:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 07:05 AM
Don't use heat on it
If you damage the seal behind it there is a spacer between the seal and sprocket that probably the hardest thing to get off the gearbox output shaft known to man .I remember someone took days to get one off once.
A good clean some penetrating oil , an impact gun(some hire companies do hire these or hopefully a friend has one) and it'll take seconds or be very careful using the locking the wheel and a strong breaker bar method.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 07:17 AM
Yes you are quite right Seth .....
I should have added....
When using heat think of the oil seal on the other side of the sprocket.. SO DONT !!
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Mister Fishfinger on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 08:41 AM
I have recently started using "Degrip All" spray by Soudal, after a recommendation on another forum (pardon me):

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOUDAL-DEGRIP-ALL-400ML-SPRAY-PENETRATING-OIL-DISSOLVES-RUST-CORROSION-/140938448893

It's cheap enough and so far it seems to work a lot better than WD-40 and the like. A bit of that, a few times a day for a few days, won't cost you much and well worth a try.

And +1 for rattle guns although there is a limit to their powers. The ones mechanics use are beefier than what I have at home.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 08:47 AM
Only thing to remember is you need to be able to fit a new nut after it's the torque (115N-m or 83.2 lb-ft)holding it on that the problem cleaning the rust will help everything tho.
I'll post a pic of my impact gun and it's well up to the job .
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: froudy on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 08:48 AM
You're lucky it's still done up tight Mr Fishfinger..
Mine usually loosens itself off and I have to check and re torque it up every so often..I threadlock it in place too!
The only part I've never managed to get off (never really tried that hard either) is the collar on the output shaft behind the sprocket..That is totally "welded" in place :furious:

And electric "windy gun" will pop that one of your's straight off in about a second :onya:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 09:05 AM
Cheers froudy that's the same as i have
:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 09:22 AM
Clean up the exposed thread the nut will run over on the way off.
Nice impact gun boys  :onya:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 09:28 AM
High torque on those, (450nm) is it adjustable?  I've got an air gun, only 350nm, but does everything I've needed to date.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 10:00 AM
Only adjustability is how much you press the trigger but you can control it ok
Yes big torque indeed  :onya:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 10:16 AM
So should work well with my worn double hex Chinese sockets then  :doh:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 02:16 PM
Yep, -  you'd have either 'rounded nuts' or a 'pipe' on the end of the thing, instead of a socket.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 03:12 PM
Froudy, Seth...
I am seriously thinking of buying one of these for this one off job!
Amazon says I can have it by Thursday etc..
You both seem confident of its abilities so I may well bite the bullet and buy one..
Its one piece of kit I have never owned but feel I should!

I say again.. "Dont remove your swing arm cos ignorance is bliss" :bugga:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: KiwiCol on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 03:18 PM
They're a very handy piece of kit Speedy, but I could be biased.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 05:48 PM
There are good
Just be careful using it as it does have a kick so be prepared for that it's useful for a lot of things I've had mine a few years now .It is a tool that will mostly sit in the shed and get used occasionally but so hand when it's needed .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:27 PM
Might be worth seeing how much to hire one locally that has a gearbox on it Simon so protecting your wrist if it kicks back. You can then assess future usefulness and it will be cheaper than buying one now
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:29 PM
Right..
Thats it..
I have ordered one and it arrives at my works tomorrow.
I wonder how far I can throw a 32mm nut..
Any guesses ?
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:31 PM
If you can hire one great to give it a try as it's a bit of cash to have sitting in the shed for how much it gets used .
I use my a lot as I do a fair few jobs on other folks bikes as well as ours is how I justified buying one.
But so glad I do have it when I need it .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Mister Fishfinger on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:32 PM
My air wrench has worked on everything I've needed it for, but you guys are making me feel inadequate now with your powerful tools.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:34 PM
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 07 March  2018, 06:27 PM
Might be worth seeing how much to hire one locally that has a gearbox on it Simon so protecting your wrist if it kicks back. You can then assess future usefulness and it will be cheaper than buying one now

Thanks Dave..
I considered hiring one but the nearest place to me is 15 miles away...
Then I would have to return it.
My only worry is what if it doesnt work?
Then I shall leave the engine sprocket alone as the teeth dont seem bad at all to me when I compare it the the brand new sprocket.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:34 PM
Great stuff
As I say on all jobs just take your time and be careful it will get the nut off and the nut will be hot when it's just been removed.
Get used to it's use before attacking the bike with it .ie which way it spins and biting point when you press the trigger.
It will get it off.

:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:45 PM
Thank you Seth

My puncture has turned out to be a bloody expensive excercise.
Will keep you all posted.

S.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 06:53 PM
The main thing is hopefully when all this is done you'll know the bike is in top condition and everything has been done properly .
It's been a but of a saga tho .
:doh:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: grog on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 07:16 PM
a decent rattle gun will take 2 seconds. i have 3, two run off air compressor, other is 18volt ryobi rechargeable, used many times. use it for work. it undid sprocket nut easily. cant believe how rusty that one is, mine has no rust. even your sprocket has rust on outside. maybe some chain lube with a bit of fling required.  :happy1:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Andre on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 07:37 PM
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 07 March  2018, 07:16 PM
a decent rattle gun will take 2 seconds. i have 3, two run off air compressor, other is 18volt ryobi rechargeable, used many times. use it for work. it undid sprocket nut easily. cant believe how rusty that one is, mine has no rust. even your sprocket has rust on outside. maybe some chain lube with a bit of fling required.  :happy1:

:rofl2:

Salt does nasty things to bikes. You down undies are fortunate. I am glad it's raining now and the stuff gets flushed off the road. 
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Mick_J on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 09:19 PM
You could try this

KFdFsfSAuyc
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: gsxbarmy on Wednesday, 07 March 2018, 09:42 PM
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 07 March  2018, 06:45 PM
Thank you Seth

My puncture has turned out to be a bloody expensive excercise.
Will keep you all posted.

S.

The puncture on my car cost over £1325.
£875 for a new wheel (cracked when it went down a pot hole at night in the rain) and £450 for 2 new tyres (both had to be done due to 4 wheel drive, tread on the tyres on one axle must be within 2mm of each other). Tyre got ruined as it caught the edge of the pothole and ripped the wall. Only good news was that I had an insurance policy on the wheel knowing how much they cost if damaged - still cost me the £450 for 2 tyres though

Feeling a bit better now buddy?
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 04:21 AM
Nice safety boots ..............no Health and Safety in Armish Country
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:29 AM
Sophie is re assembled with her replacement swing arm.
It all went very well.
I left the sprocket in place till the impact gun and new nut arrive.
I intend to replace the front sprocket within the week.
This afternoon was gorgeous and actually sunny so I went out on her..
It was dark when i got back so tomorrow after work I will go over all the bolts with my torque wrench and re check the chains tension.

Within a couple of hundred yards I had forgotten the recent hassles..
Best all round bike I have owned. :)
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:35 AM
Well done buddy I said in the other thread .add up the hours you have spent on your bike times it by £60 Then spend that amount on something you want as you earned it .Well done on your progress .
:clapping: :salute: :hat:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:37 AM
Thank you Seth..
I am looking forwards to getting the impact gun you recommended.
Sophie asked me to send you her latest photo with Dels Black swing arm fitted..
So here she is....
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: seth on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:40 AM
That looks fantastic especially with your colour scheme.
Bikes looking great .
:cheers:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: VladTepes on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 03:29 PM
Yep.
Time for a tail tidy.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 04:44 PM
Nope...
The very first thing I did when I bought the bike was the chuck the "tail tidy" and hunt for an original unmollested rear mudguard.

I cant say I am a fan of the "Tail Tidy" look myself..

My bike was butchered under the seat to make the tail tidy fit and so it was no longer waterproof under there..

So respectfully.....

NO THANKS !!
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Sweaty on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 04:46 PM
Looking great Speedy & love the different colour scheme. I don't normally say this about other peoples girl's, but Sophie is quite a Sexy bitch with a nice rear end & set on her.  :grin:
Sorry she has caused you a bit of pain lately, but she is well worth the effort & high maintenance.  :onya:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 04:52 PM
Quote from: Sweaty on Thursday, 08 March  2018, 04:46 PM
Looking great Speedy & love the different colour scheme. I don't normally say this about other peoples girl's, but Sophie is quite a Sexy bitch with a nice rear end & set on her.  :grin:
Sorry she has caused you a bit of pain lately, but she is well worth the effort & high maintenance.  :onya:

Hi Sweaty..
I am flattered when another bloke likes the look of Sophie..
In fact I said to my mate the other day...
If she was a wench I would "Do" her ! Lol

Wench = Sheila lol
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 04:53 PM
Sweaty..
Sophie says you may like her front end so just for you....
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Sweaty on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:02 PM
Tell Sophie that i love her front end & would sleep with her/ do her, if i lived closer (with your permission of course)  :)
Well done of turning her in to a great looking Gal Speedy. :hat:
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March 2018, 05:16 PM
Lol thanks Sweaty..
Appreciate your comments and advice on this forum.

S.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Kiwifruit on Friday, 09 March 2018, 01:06 AM
Nice looking bike Speedy. How do you find your hand gaurds. They look like genuine DL's. I have some but would consider changing to some like those.
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: gsxbarmy on Friday, 09 March 2018, 03:00 AM
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Thursday, 08 March  2018, 04:53 PM
Sweaty..
Sophie says you may like her front end so just for you....

Looking at the picture of your front end, can I just check that your 14 is a K5 and originally had a 4 into 1 system as standard?

If it is a K5 - can I just check what headers you have fitted, chrome or stainless (should be stainless on the K5 ->, chrome are the wrong ones (more restrictive)). Bit hard to make out which they are from the picture itself, but they look like they could be chrome.....

Thanks
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Friday, 09 March 2018, 04:09 AM
Hi Dave,
You are correct in that the previous owner converted it to the twin pipe set up which I love..
Couldnt tell you what the headers are made of..
To be totally honest Dave the bike is more than fast enough for me, so I don't really care about restricted headers one way or the other..
The previous owner has thankfully fitted stainless Allen bolts to the headers though.
I did remove 3 or 4 of them to see if they had locked themselves in.. The came out very easily..
Title: Re: Best laid plans
Post by: Speedy1959 on Friday, 09 March 2018, 04:15 AM
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Friday, 09 March  2018, 01:06 AM
Nice looking bike Speedy. How do you find your hand gaurds. They look like genuine DL's. I have some but would consider changing to some like those.
Hi KF,
The hand guards are indeed genuine DL ones.
I have to say they look far better on the bike than I feared.
I was fully intending to remove them for the summer months but to be honest I dont think I will bother..
In use you forget that they actually make a difference until you meet up with some guys without guards blowing into their hands or hugging the hot engine..
Yes they make a difference..
I have the heated grips as well so the combination makes riding not much of an issue at say 5C
Dont forget a short ride for me is around 50 miles...
A summer jaunt can be 300 or more.