Few days ago I noticed that when I try to rotate front wheel brake pads drag :confused1:
Cleaned calipers, put new brake fluid, cleaned master cylinder, done bleeding (reverse) and now is even worse! :facepalm: Now I can't turn front wheel more than a 1/4 turn when try to spin it. I also retightened front axle hoping that would help... :whatever:
Any sugestions?
Sounds like a sticking piston
Can you move them freely ?
If you cleaned them it's normally corrosion under the seals .
:cheers:
I agree could be a sticking piston or it could be that the disks are no longer floating and the bobbins need a good clean - see this thread for how to check/remedy
http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=211.0
Oh, forgot to say... pistons move freely (pushed by fingers) and disc bobbins are also cleaned so free to move discs! Brake lines were blown with compressed air before new brake fuid put in. Have no idea anymore! :whatever:
Could it be that I have to replace caliper seals or cylinder seals? They don't leak and braking was normal.
Calipers are only thing I did not reassemble, because I am afraid that I'll have to buy new seals in case I can't reuse old ones (not recomended).
Maybe someone reused piston seals with success?
It sounds like there is a bit of residual pressure in the brake circuit.
If you take the calipers off the forks, does the wheel spin freely? If Yes, then it's definately in the brake assemble somewhere. Check run out on discs? Try opening the bleed valve & see if any pressure relief there allows the wheel to spin freely.
Have you put new pads on? Could be just them grabbing / rubbing just a bit.
My boat trailer does this, no issue with overheating of bearings, just stiff to rotate, I take them off & wheel spins freely, it's just my pads slightly touching & causing drag.
I agree with Col, take the calipers off and then try spinning the wheel.
If that works and its not pressure in the brake system, try taking the front wheel out and putting it back in again - sometimes just resetting that works. Also check for brake disc run out, its possible you may have one or more warped discs
agree Barmy, once re fitted front wheel, was dragging big time. took it out, re fitted, no prob. no idea why.
Will try to re fit front wheel in next few days and let you know was it worth...
Removed brake calipers and wheel is spinning freely, no bearing failure. Removed wheel and loosen fender bolts and after refitting everything I still have brake dragging, little less than before but still not as it should be :frustrated: Only 1/2 turn when spin it by hand
Ok so sounds like one of the disks are warped and/ or the pistons jammed in a caliper.
We need to determine which side.
If you take off just the LH caliper does it spin freely? If so then the LH caliper is the problem
If you take off just the RH caliper does it spin freely? If so then the RH caliper is the problem
Try each caliper one at a time to see what happens
The only way to work through each part .
Lh caliper Th caliper discs and deal with what you find.
Great advice barmy :onya:
Tried left and right side method and on each side dragging is same only lighter (1 caliper drags at time). As I mentioned....all 12 pistons move freely, disc are not wraped as they were fine before winter. Oh, now I can move wheel about 3/4 turn with both calipers......something is happening but can not figure out what!?!?
Did you try releasing the bleed nipples to make sure you don't have excessive pressure in the brakelines.
The things you looked at can be the only cause of your problems you need to go back and check again .
:cheers:
This is baffling. There will always been some drag from the brake pads when you spin the wheel as they never completely lift off the disk when the bike is at a standstill, so its never going to spin 2-3 revolutions. Whilst 3/4 of a turn isn't bad (at least it shows the pads are not solid on), maybe it should do a little more.
If everything is working properly, and given you have 3/4 turn, it may be time just to leave it for a while and see if it improves.
I wonder if someone else could check how many revolutions their front wheel turns, as that would give some indication as to whether we have no problem / slight problem or major problem. As I don't have a 14 any longer that's a bit difficult for me.
Are there any members who can do this as a check please?
Only other thing I can think could possibly be wrong is if you fitted new pads they might be at maximum thickness and on with discs need to bed in a bit to get the clearance needed to run free .
:cheers:
Old pads are in calipers. I will leave it as it is and ride it for a couple of days and hope it will solve the problem. Maybe the reason is that I did not put back every pad where it was... :whatever:
Thank you all for advices! :cheers:
You'll will always have tighter spots on brake disks, that's why they now have floating rotors. It allows for engineering tolerances. It entirely depends on how much resistance you experience at the tight spot. As long as you can spin it out of the tight spot by hand without putting effort in I wouldn't worry about it.
Best test to do would stick it in neutral and push it. If you feel active resistance at a set point on the wheel rotation that causes the bike to feel like it's braking, you have an issue. Otherwise, happy riding.
Are you sure you haven't just talked yourself into thinking there's a problem where one doesn't exist? :onya:
Quote from: mlivkovich on Sunday, 11 March 2018, 10:01 PM
Old pads are in calipers. I will leave it as it is and ride it for a couple of days and hope it will solve the problem. Maybe the reason is that I did not put back every pad where it was... :whatever:
Thank you all for advices! :cheers:
If you mixed up the old pads when refitting them that will be a big part of the problem until they re-wear in .
Hopefully all settles down very quickly.
:cheers:
Take it out for a decent spin and try to use the brake sparingly, after a while stop and feel how hot the disk is (be careful with this). If it's "ahhhh" :rant: bloody hot you have a problem but if it's just warm it's okay and I would leave it alone. As gsxbarmy said there will always be some drag on the disk as the pads never fully clear the disk.
Quote from: mjgt on Sunday, 11 March 2018, 10:23 PM
Take it out for a decent spin and try to use the brake sparingly, after a while stop and feel how hot the disk is (be careful with this). If it's "ahhhh" :rant: bloody hot you have a problem but if it's just warm it's okay and I would leave it alone. As gsxbarmy said there will always be some drag on the disk as the pads never fully clear the disk.
If they're too hot, a quick spray with WD40 will cool them enough to touch :smoke: ........... Seriously though, please don't do that :doh: :lol:
Quote from: gsxbarmy on Sunday, 11 March 2018, 09:45 PM
This is baffling. There will always been some drag from the brake pads when you spin the wheel as they never completely lift off the disk when the bike is at a standstill, so its never going to spin 2-3 revolutions. Whilst 3/4 of a turn isn't bad (at least it shows the pads are not solid on), maybe it should do a little more.
If everything is working properly, and given you have 3/4 turn, it may be time just to leave it for a while and see if it improves.
I wonder if someone else could check how many revolutions their front wheel turns, as that would give some indication as to whether we have no problem / slight problem or major problem. As I don't have a 14 any longer that's a bit difficult for me.
Are there any members who can do this as a check please?
Last time I checked it was over 1 1/2 turns. Used a piece of masking tape to keep the guessing to a minimum. If you get more or less depends also on the amount of force you use when spinning :)
Quote from: mjgt on Sunday, 11 March 2018, 10:23 PM
Take it out for a decent spin and try to use the brake sparingly, after a while stop and feel how hot the disk is (be careful with this). If it's "ahhhh" :rant: bloody hot you have a problem but if it's just warm it's okay and I would leave it alone. As gsxbarmy said there will always be some drag on the disk as the pads never fully clear the disk.
Also compare the 2 disks. All you need is go for a slow spin and only use the rear brake (unless you need the stopping power of the fronts).
Here is a good video on how to reinstall front wheel/brakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHV78tWs1c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHV78tWs1c) Good instructions here. The bike has radial calipers but it is still applicable for ours. At the end he shows an important part often overlooked! The "free leg" mentioned there is the opposite on the 14.
Thank you all for advices and replies! Gsx is my 4th motorcycle in last 20 years and I did a lot of brake cleaning, changing fluid, bleeding and refitting and I exactly know how much brakes drag on all of my motorcycles and my friend's motorcycles I often serviced. I am pretty sure that every time I put pads back in I put them in diferent position (never payed atention of that) but this is the first time I can not spin the front wheel (wich was free to spin) after cleaning, putting new fuid and bleeding brakes. Done this at least 30 times on diferent bikes....
Will give it a ride and hope pads will re-wear.
read this today, got me thinking. last year i refitted front wheel, no work done to brakes but one was dragging. measured temp with laser and one much hotter. i had no idea why or what to do. i just kept riding and all came good. mystery to me. now both the same temperature.
Today I rode it for about 100km and it seems that brake pads adapted to the brake discs. Front wheel is spinning freely again and I am happy now :imrgreen:
Thanx for help :cheers:
Thats the trouble with bikes......you cannot turn the radio up so the problem goes away.
Pleased you are happy now and can get on and enjoy riding. Good on you for checking everything out....probably twice :onya:
Good to hear you are sorted :onya:
@ Andre.... that's a great find with the vid! Things there I had not thought about!
@ARH One (should) never stops learning something new.
The guy in the video, Dave Moss, has been setting up 3k bikes every year for many years. I am sure even he is still learning. Worth a search on YT :onya:
Good to hear it's sorted :onya:
Quote from: Kiwifruit on Tuesday, 13 March 2018, 03:03 AM
Thats the trouble with bikes......you cannot turn the radio up so the problem goes away.
Pleased you are happy now and can get on and enjoy riding. Good on you for checking everything out....probably twice :onya:
Twice?
At least five times! :facepalm: brake discs got hot just from spinning by hand :furious: :whistling: and trying to figure out what is going on.
:happy1:
Glad you got it sorted, disks and head cooled off by taking a ride in your beautiful country :onya:
Good to hear :clapping:
Old thread I know, but I also noticed what appeared to be the brakes binding, now as you all know I have just rebuilt my calipers, new seals pads etc, what I noticed was that the wheel did not spin as freely as I expected, so I removed the LH caliper and everything was fine. I put an old disc in the caliper while it was not attached to the fork and pumped the brake and the caliper was releasing the disc, so obviously not sticking pistons, I did this for both calipers. I put the caliper back on, then slackened off the axle, and everything was fine, it is only when tightening the axle back up that the issue comes back. So wheel torqued up, it only spins about 1/3 to 1/2, axle just nipped up and everything free to spin. Obviously the wheel can't go anywhere as the axle has two pinch bolts either side...
Now where's my Inspector Clueso magnifying glass... :grin:
i had same once. tighten axle, brakes binding. measured temp after 20 ks and lhs much hotter. didnt know what was wrong, never figured it out. kept riding and sorted itself. no help i know but thats what happened. why? no idea. all ok now.
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 06:59 PM
i had same once. tighten axle, brakes binding. measured temp after 20 ks and lhs much hotter. didnt know what was wrong, never figured it out. kept riding and sorted itself. no help i know but thats what happened. why? no idea. all ok now.
Cheers Grog, I'm starting to think it might have something to do with the fact I had mine powder coated, since then there have been a couple of little niggles that I am not happy with,..and that's not a good thing with brakes...perhaps I'll draw a line under this and look at some four pots
Mmmm
4 pots...
You know they make sense !!
:grin:
maybe 4 pots are good, if brakes are dragging, so will they. as long as pistons are free, yours are, has to be another explanation. just changing wont solve prob. imo.
I can now confirm my 4 pots are MUCH better than my 6 pots ever were, now my pads are fully bedded in.
My 6 pots were NOT seized or below parr.
Is it simply that the 4 pots are better/ more efficient ?
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 08:00 PM
I can now confirm my 4 pots are MUCH better than my 6 pots ever were, now my pads are fully bedded in.
My 6 pots were NOT seized or below parr.
It simplybthat the 4 pots are better/ more efficient !
Sorry Simon, but I disagree that 4 pots are better or more efficient than 6 pots, I understand what you may have found but personally I never found the 4 pots to be any better or more efficient at braking than the 6-pots - just that the 4 pots were more maintenance free than the 6 pots.
Much of it comes down to which pads you are using, and how much the pads are worn - that can make brakes seem better or worse IMO.
Quote from: T250 on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 07:09 PM
Quote from: grog on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 06:59 PM
i had same once. tighten axle, brakes binding. measured temp after 20 ks and lhs much hotter. didnt know what was wrong, never figured it out. kept riding and sorted itself. no help i know but thats what happened. why? no idea. all ok now.
Cheers Grog, I'm starting to think it might have something to do with the fact I had mine powder coated, since then there have been a couple of little niggles that I am not happy with,..and that's not a good thing with brakes...perhaps I'll draw a line under this and look at some four pots
Have you checked the bobbins are running free? http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=211.0
Have you checked the bobbins are running free? http://gsx1400owners.org/forum/index.php?topic=211.0
[/quote]
Yes all cleaned and free, I did this before refitting to the wheels
did you try cleaning the pistons with a toothbrush & cheep furniture polish then push them all back in and slowly pump brakes till wheel catches you may just have a bit of crud on one of the pistons and although it was releasing on the spare disc it may be enough to just catch the pad
Quote from: Del on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 08:29 PM
did you try cleaning the pistons with a toothbrush & cheep furniture polish then push them all back in and slowly pump brakes till wheel catches you may just have a bit of crud on one of the pistons and although it was releasing on the spare disc it may be enough to just catch the pad
I rebuilt the calipers with new seals which seemed to move okay, I suppose I could take the pistons back out and try again, but, I removed the wheel,and put it back in, torqued back up, and I can spin the wheel about 1 turn, this is spinning the tyre from just below the front mudguard, so not too much room or force applied, if that makes sense.
Quote from: Andre on Sunday, 11 March 2018, 11:03 PM
Here is a good video on how to reinstall front wheel/brakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHV78tWs1c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYHV78tWs1c) Good instructions here. The bike has radial calipers but it is still applicable for ours. At the end he shows an important part often overlooked! The "free leg" mentioned there is the opposite on the 14.
@T250 Giving the dragging appears only when tightening the axle, lets me think you should watch the end of the video in above link. Not doing the procedure potentially leaves your fork out of alignment and could also affect your brakes.
I let my mate ride my bike after my 4 pot conversion (once pads were bedded in) and his response was "Bloody hell you wouldnt want them any stronger"!
When I meet Seth at the Scottish meet up I have offered him (AND ONLY HIM) a go on my bike to see what he thinks.
If Mr Barmy is correct about pads then I say to you all...
Throw away your EBC HH and fit genuine Suzuki ones.
I fitted genuine Suzuki partly because there was a special offer on at my dealers of £29 per Caliper (down from £44)..
My other reason for not going EBC is they rattled unbelievably in the 6 pots.
Go genuine Suzuki...
You know it makes sense !
I look forward to seeing the differences as I'm happy with my std 6 pots on my std bike.
Im always up to change my mind .
On my tuned b/w I'll be fitting bking radial calipers to go with the bking forks as the standard bikes did seam a bit weak.
On a side note many years ago I had a xjr1200 that still used fj1200 calipers as standard ones I fitted later R6/R1 type calipers I had to refit the standard brake hoses as they were to powerful with hell hoses.
:cheers:
Quote from: Speedy1959 on Wednesday, 04 July 2018, 09:20 PM
If Mr Barmy is correct about pads then I say to you all...
Throw away your EBC HH and fit genuine Suzuki ones.
EBC are shite (not as shite as others) but they wear quick for only ok brakes, these cheapos are MUCH better and last a lot longer so I'll be sticking with them. https://www.wemoto.com/bikes/suzuki/gsx_1400_k2_k3/02-03/picture/pads_front_brenta_standard_gg_type
Got it a bit better today, loosened the pinch bolts in the bottom yoke, spun the wheel to set the calipers, then tightened the pinch bolts on the LH leg, bounced the suspension up and down a few times, re-torqued the axle, tightened remaining pinch bolts, wheel spins a bit better, don't have any problem pushing it around. Will see about taking it for a test ride tomorrow, as there are obviously a load of things to settle down after this rebuild...